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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 5:45:32 GMT
Sorry, English isn't my first language. You can't use veto in the context of him not approving of a decision? Oh I didn't realize you weren't English. Where are you from? |
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Post by rushy on Dec 24, 2023 5:49:42 GMT
Estonia
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 24, 2023 10:22:54 GMT
He did. The story RTD submitted was the Long Game, which Cartmel thought was one of the worst scripts he'd ever read. Also I'm sure you know this, not just being a fan in your own right, but because I've brought it up billions of times LOL but Cartmel also included a caricature of Chris Chibnall and the obnoxious Fitzroy Crowd types with Whizz Kid. Certainly the character was based physically on Chibnall (though granted that came more from JNT who was really pissed about the open air interview.) However even then the Fitzroy Crowd were beginning to take over fandom and being little bitches about it in things like Doctor Who Bulletin and so on, so yeah Whizz Kid was their revenge. Given how the Chibnall era went down, it also ended up being quite prophetic. Man that guy was hot, even under the nerd attire. Also are you sure he was based directly on Chibnall? He was hardly a big deal back in the 80s, only having appeared once on some talk show to discuss DW as far as I recall. Well it wasn't just Chibbers. It was based on the obnoxious "we can do it better" fans of the time, which the Fitzroy Crowd grew out of. Chibnall meanwhile was chosen to represent him physically as the open air interview had really upset JNT. It was one of the biggest kickings he ever got in the media and it also really upset the Bakers his friends too. Meanwhile whilst I can't say whether he was hot or not physically LOL the geek chic look is a great one on women, so no reason it won't be on men. Nothing cuter. |
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 24, 2023 11:08:45 GMT
It will be one of the great mysteries of our time how a man who had a DW script rejected for his lack of imagination or scope ended up running the franchise (and being declared a genius by much of the mainstream media). He had clout and success in 2005 that he didn't in 1986. That can get you a long way. Let's not forget that Terrance vetoed the casting of Davison, Colin and McCoy. He explicitly mentioned on a commentary that he didn't think they were as good as the first four. The point I'm trying to make is that what previous script editors think has no real bearing on what the show does after their hold over it is relinquished. I think Dicks was just being a bitter bastard against JNT who he absolutely despised personally and was won over by the likes of RTD, Paul Cornell and even Moffat's fake praise of his work (I say fake because they all between them undid everything he did.) He may also have been shallow like a lot of people and assumed because of their temporary mainstream success that meant theirs was better than JNT who was there when it was cancelled, so that means it all has to have been his fault. Really how he could say Sylvester McCoy was a bad fit for the character, and David Tennant was born to play it? I mean this isn't somebody who doesn't care about maintaining the Doctors character or anything like that, or someone who thinks they are all supposed to be different people. Remember Dicks is the very guy who said that the single most important thing is not to change the Doctors character too much. With this in mind how can he possibly think that having a character who was once Jon Pertwee's stern but fun uncle fall in love with Billie Piper and be an asshole to Freema Agyeman because she's not Billie is perfectly in line with Jon Pertwee, or Hartnell or Troughton? Yeah Doctor and Rose is definitely more in line with the Doctor/companion relationship than McCoy and Ace isn't it? Absolute f*cking bullshit and whilst I do like Dicks work, and I don't think he was a bad guy or anything, as I said before karma did kind of get him in the end, in that the Fitzroy Crowd arguably f*cked over his era more than any other with Missy, (who he did despise) Cyber Brig and the destruction of the Time Lords who he helped introduce and later removing them from the position of being the Doctors own people! Also I found this quote on twitter that shows why RTD should NEVER have been put in charge of the show.  I've said it before, I'll say it again. RTD was to Doctor Who what Roland Emmerich was to Godzilla. Both were people who fundamentally hated the characters they were adapting, because they thought they were old fashioned, silly, campy and boring. Both wanted to cash in on their established fanbases, and maybe liked the odd thing about them like the Daleks, or Godzilla being a disaster movie, but both were worried their reputations would sink working on something so stupid, so they decided to make them more like contemporary 90s franchises that they didn't look down on like Jurassic Park in Godzilla's case, Buffy/Angel/Smallville/Xena in DW's. (In both cases they didn't look down on these other franchises for shallow reasons, Jurassic Park has good effects, Xena/Buffy are hotter and sexier and their fans are young, LGBT women, rather than virgin, anorak men.) Both also contrary to what lots of Big G fans make out, actually did have mainstream success at first through doing that and introduced lots of young people to the respective characters. The only difference was that RTD had more hype and DW fans again were self loathers. Godzilla fans made it clear that Emmerich's in name only version of the character would NOT fly. They insisted if you are going to adapt Godzilla, actually adapt Godzilla! Don't give us the f*cking name of Godzilla and nothing else. As a result of that the film's infamy among fans became all it was known for, and eventually when the time came for another western remake, we got one that actually was a Godzilla movie, Godzilla 2014. Granted that movie wasn't perfect. I think its direction was absolutely appalling. There are some good shots like Godzilla's first entrance, but the final fight is so f*cking dark you can't see anything! It's a shame as it is a good movie and that wasn't a problem when I saw it on the big screen, but watching it at home, yeah I was struggling to make a lot out. Still it was a proper Godzilla movie that updated the character, but in practical ways rather than changing the fundamentals. Its success let to a whole franchise of Godzilla movies like King of the Monsters, Godzilla vs Kong etc, that were faithful and now Godzilla is arguably doing better than he ever was. He is mainstream in both the east and the west, and everyone has a good idea of what kind of character he is and he has proven the naysayers wrong, as ultimately the character of Godzilla clearly underneath all of the campiness was good enough that it could endure to modern generations. DW fans however and evidently a lot of people who worked on the original like Verity Lambert, Philip Hinchcliff, and yes Terrance Dicks, like I am always saying, lost their mojo and confidence after it got the Amy Winehouse treatment from panel show c*nts and media whores, and were so thrilled at it having any mainstream success they in contrast praised RTD's bastardisation as maintaining the dignity of the show, and helped push the it's all about change to cover up the obvious discrepancies and became slaves to whatever the new younger fans wanted above all else. As a result of this in the long run DW burnt itself out after 7 years, has been struggling badly for the past almost decade (having produced just 4 seasons in ten years) and is now in a worse position than it has ever been in. Nobody even knows what kind of a character the Doctor is supposed to be anymore, simply casting him is a battleground for the culture wars, the shows fandom are a by word for insane, unreasonable cult like followers, its seen somewhat paradoxically as a show that has no identity, but is also relying on member berries to get by, it has 0 mainstream appeal etc. The lesson here is never sell out to the latest fads, and don't let bullies change who you are. Sadly DW fans did both, though again to be fair they were bullied by the media and panel show whores more than any other franchise. Still even then you have to persevere as ultimately now we don't really have DW at all, and it will be a task of Herculian proportions just trying to do a version of DW that is...... DW. Think of what you have to overcome now when compared with the wilderness years? In the 90s you just had to update it in practical ways, better effects etc. Now you have to try and convince its own fandom that the Doctor actually exists as a character, you have to wrestle it from the Fitzroy clique that is in with the Beeb who even if they are forced to relinquish it, will NEVER give it up willingly and will send their followers to attack your version in lots of underhanded ways (like RTD making out Primeval his competition was racist.) You have to try and cut out the shallow neo liberal crap, but also convince people that you're not pandering to the GB News crowd. IE wanting to cast an eccentric character actor in the role doesn't mean you want to go round dead naming all trans women. Making the Master his enemy and not his gay lover isn't you hating on gay people. You also have to cut out so much lore from the past ten years, like there being billions of Doctors, gender bending etc, just to write the Doctor and secure its future! It's funny though btw because I remember this site Doctor Who General that was supposed to be a satire of DW fandom HATED Godzilla fans. DW General of course just repeated all of the usual Fitzroy, self loathing fanboy talking points. DW is all about change, classic who fans are sad losers etc. It's way of being edgy was just to be really nasty to easy targets in fandom. I remember it making horrible remarks about Claudia Boleyn, going on about her creepy doll like eyes, and its one on Ian Levine making remarks about his weight, his stroke etc was really vile. It also hated me, treating me like the unspeakable one whose name you don't mention LOL. Well all I can say is DW general may have looked down on Godzilla fans as manbabies, but they are having a better Christmas than DW fans.  Result of a fandom who don't take any shit.  A character once played by William Hartnell becoming this is the end result of the LOVE ME, LOVE ME, LOVE ME, DON'T CALL ME AN ANORAK approach to fandom. |
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Post by RobFilth on Dec 24, 2023 11:41:11 GMT
A character once played by William Hartnell becoming this is the end result of the LOVE ME, LOVE ME, LOVE ME, DON'T CALL ME AN ANORAK approach to fandom. Hey, William Hartnell was hip in night clubs too, don't forget. Didn't Polly initially liken him to Jimmy Savile? |
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Post by rushy on Dec 24, 2023 13:54:21 GMT
Really how he could say Sylvester McCoy was a bad fit for the character, and David Tennant was born to play it? You're asking the wrong person lol, I think Tennant's one of the best things to happen to the character. I wouldn't diss Sylvester though, he did a terrific job in spite of his arguably limited acting ability. Much like George Lazenby. |
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 24, 2023 16:15:34 GMT
I'm afraid I can't respond to Rushy about how wrong he is LOL, as I have to get everything ready for my insane wee niece tomorrow. "Goodnight, ding, ding, ding, ding." I'll be off the Hive probably until after the holidays. I certainly won't be on to talk about the Christmas special, though I'll be here to share the last part of The Fire of the Daleks. In fact I might do an omnibus edition at New Year LOL, with all 6 parts posted together for anyone who is interested. Whatever the case I'll leave you with this parting gift. Remember how I said that some little twerp of a "I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER" fan told RTD not to hire Helena Bonham Carter for supporting JK Rowling (who for the record I hate and did so before it was keeeewwwwwllllll.) Well he not only liked that comment but is NOT backing down either. Here.  He's about as good a friend as he is a DW writer. Again Helena Bonham Carter is unacceptable but these c*nty fans kiss Neil Patrick Harris' arse, praise his dreadful, John Simm light performance and make endless obnoxious "vell that's alright then" memes about him? God do I HATE this fandom at times. Anyway happy Christmas to you all and good will to all men, women, and trans folk, except for NPH. |
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Post by rushy on Dec 24, 2023 16:54:36 GMT
praise his dreadful, John Simm light performance It's worth pointing out that he was very clearly directed to act this way. There's no other way to interpret that script, at least not by the time it gets to Spice Girls. Even McGann would have given into the ham by this point. |
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Post by mott1 on Dec 24, 2023 18:09:32 GMT
Rushy has a point. I've seen Simm in stuff pre and post his Who work (Cracker, Prey, Trauma, Life On Mars etc) and it bears little resemblance to his turn as the Master, which would have made Eric Roberts blush!
I don't know if it's me and I certainly don't mind some of Eric's work, but whenever I see him in a role it always feels like he was the one they hired because their first choice was too pricey/on holiday/not interested (including The Expendables and even The Dark Knight!)
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Post by zarius on Dec 24, 2023 18:09:55 GMT
Helena's drama Nolly is finally being screened on ITV this week after sitting on ITVX for a whole year
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Post by rushy on Dec 24, 2023 19:02:21 GMT
Rushy has a point. I've seen Simm in stuff pre and post his Who work (Cracker, Prey, Trauma, Life On Mars etc) and it bears little resemblance to his turn as the Master, which would have made Eric Roberts blush! I don't know if it's me and I certainly don't mind some of Eric's work, but whenever I see him in a role it always feels like he was the one they hired because their first choice was too pricey/on holiday/not interested (including The Expendables and even The Dark Knight!) I've always really liked Eric's take on the Master, at least prior to the final act. The way he toys with Chang Lee - knowing that he can easily dispose of him any time he wants - is very funny. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2023 15:56:58 GMT
RTD is an unbelievable narcissist. When he, a Welshman, gained control of the show, the entire production was moved to Wales and much of the series was set there, including an entire spinoff. Meanwhile in Moffat's tenure Scotland was mentioned probably twice.
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 26, 2023 16:32:07 GMT
RTD is an unbelievable narcissist. When he, a Welshman, gained control of the show, the entire production was moved to Wales and much of the series was set there, including an entire spinoff. Meanwhile in Moffat's tenure Scotland was mentioned probably twice. It gets worse.  Honestly what is wrong with him? I'm listening to Mark Gattis' a gay man's take on Dracula over the holidays, which also stars his husband Ian Halliard as Renfield and you'd never know it, as surprise, surprise, both are just normal guys in real life. Both clearly have much more interesting aspects to their personalities than the fact that they prefer dicks to pussies, like their love of horror and Victorian literature. Gattis hasn't mentioned ONCE in any of the interviews behind the scenes that "I'm gay, I'm gay, I'm gay." All he's talked about is how much he loves playing the Count. (And you can tell, which is why he is so fantastic in the role.) Don't get me wrong here I'm not saying gay men should never mention it. Hell be a flirty, promiscuous gay man. I'd be flattered if a gay man flirted with me as it would make me think I'm hot to both genders LOL rather than what it would actually represent, the end of the myth that gay men have fantastic taste. However you can't let it be such a huge part of your personality that it must creep into every single thing you do. That applies for any part of your personality, and yes it applies to straight guys too. Case in point the first four actors to play the Doctor were all unbelievable womanizers in real life, (Pertwee, Troughton and Hartnell regularly had two girlfriends at a time LOL) but they were all able to play an asexual, grandfatherly, innocent, professorial, almost child like at times character perfectly. Similarly who knows what Terry Nation's fetishes were? Maybe he shagged about too, but you don't know it. As a writer and an actor you have to be able to play or write characters that are different to you. If not, well fine carve out a niche only playing or writing characters that are similar to you, I don't mind that at all, and some actors/writers have been hugely successful doing that, but normally they don't then take over things that are supposed to be for everybody and change them to suit their limited style/outlook the way Russell T Davies and Chibnall have both done with DW. (Chibnall is adopted and that's apparently why he wrote the Timeless Children story to make the Doctor adopted like him. Again get f*cking over yourself and try and write a character that's not just your avatar.) I will say though in defense of RTD to some extent, Moff was a bit narcissistic too in regards to being Scottish. He cast dozens of Scottish people in the show. The companion, the Master, the Doctor, the Silurian woman, the Dalek guy (who was even called a Paisley boy, with that being Moffat's home town.) Also much like RTD he was guilty of injecting his sexuality into the asexual character a bit too much. Not just saying this because of how extremely fond I am of Claudia LOL, but in hindsight she and some of the other feminists did have a bit of a point about the 11th Doctor being too laddish. 11, much like Moff himself when he was younger was a bit more of a ladies man who boasted about his conquests (which just makes him becoming gay a few years later all the more hilarious.) We also had Matt drooling over Jenna Coleman's arse, going on about her being wrapped in a skirt that is just too tight, all the jokes about the Doctor liking bad girls, Missy being all over him, the infamous miming an erection at the lesbian girls hot arse etc. Now granted the Scottish thing may have been more just Moffat casting his mates from back home (which both Michelle Gomez and Peter Capaldi were.) Also the ladies man bit kind of came from Matt too, but even then Moff should have held him back, the way Hinchcliff did from Tom wanting a cabbage as his companion, but sadly I think he was on a similar laddish wavelength with Matt that way. Still Moff was definitely the least narcissistic of the three that way. Also Moff's laddishness wasn't creepy in that he didn't make jokes about chasing the young female nurse when he was in an anti grav wheelchair, or talk about having parties with 20 naked women, or do publicity shots where he was leaning his head on Karen Gillan or Jenna Coleman's shoulders whilst they stroked his face (whilst wearing revealing clothes) or have Jenna and Karen parade around in their underpants for their entire first stories. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Dec 26, 2023 17:59:18 GMT
Rushy has a point. I've seen Simm in stuff pre and post his Who work (Cracker, Prey, Trauma, Life On Mars etc) and it bears little resemblance to his turn as the Master, which would have made Eric Roberts blush! I don't know if it's me and I certainly don't mind some of Eric's work, but whenever I see him in a role it always feels like he was the one they hired because their first choice was too pricey/on holiday/not interested (including The Expendables and even The Dark Knight!) Eric Roberts opens fetes for Richard Gere... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2023 18:41:51 GMT
I'm afraid I can't respond to Rushy about how wrong he is LOL, as I have to get everything ready for my insane wee niece tomorrow. "Goodnight, ding, ding, ding, ding." I'll be off the Hive probably until after the holidays. I certainly won't be on to talk about the Christmas special, though I'll be here to share the last part of The Fire of the Daleks. In fact I might do an omnibus edition at New Year LOL, with all 6 parts posted together for anyone who is interested. Whatever the case I'll leave you with this parting gift. Remember how I said that some little twerp of a "I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER" fan told RTD not to hire Helena Bonham Carter for supporting JK Rowling (who for the record I hate and did so before it was keeeewwwwwllllll.) Well he not only liked that comment but is NOT backing down either. Here. He's about as good a friend as he is a DW writer. Again Helena Bonham Carter is unacceptable but these c*nty fans kiss Neil Patrick Harris' arse, praise his dreadful, John Simm light performance and make endless obnoxious "vell that's alright then" memes about him? God do I HATE this fandom at times. Anyway happy Christmas to you all and good will to all men, women, and trans folk, except for NPH. People can hate JK Rowling, but she is a far better writer than RTD will ever be. |
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