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Post by burrunjor on Dec 23, 2023 9:28:28 GMT
If I feel like having a bit of lowbrow fun at the expense of multi-millionaires whose wages I'm compelled by law to pay, and who've made it their business to intentionally ruin millions of people's enjoyment of something that's been a unifying, cross-generational cultural institution for longer than most people in Britain today have been alive, then I'll continue to do that to my heart's content without a shred of guilt. I care as much about their feelings as they care about mine. I bear no ill will against anyone here and have no desire to see anyone leave, but if a community governed by this kind of sensitivity policing is what you're looking for, that particular niche is filled ably by the likes of Gallifrey Base and Reddit. The only thing I do feel an obligation to apologise for is any role I might have played in the erosion of The Hive's irreverent spirit during the NuHive years. Things like censoring BeKind's infamous Terrance Dicks post and allowing you-know-who to talk me into certain moderation decisions spring to mind. Given the chance, I would handle those situations very differently today. To be fair BeKind's post did come hours after Terrance Dicks had died. I know he wasn't meaning offence against him, but still it could be seen as inappropriate when someone had just passed away. |
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 23, 2023 12:14:28 GMT
Anyway getting back on topic. More shit from RTD and his cast. Ncuti Gatwa: ‘I know gay men who are exactly like the Doctor’ We choose our families. And the Doctor is a lonely wanderer, looking for their next adventure … I know many a gay man, MANY a gay man, I could describe that way!”Russell T Davies: Now Ncuti Gatwa is the first Black doctor. It’s always pushing forward, it’s always got something to say and has always tried to welcome people in. From my point of view, whatever I make on television, I try to embrace queerness and queer politics and that’s like breathing to me because that’s my world. That’s how I live.”
Oh and there is also lots of controversy coming up. www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/millie-gibson-doctor-who-ruby-interview-b2467889.htmlRussell how can I put this? DOCTOR WHO IS NOT A GAY SHOW! It's a show about a man who travels through time and space fighting monsters and aliens and going on weird adventures. Get f*cking over yourself. If you are such a limited writer you can only see things from that tiny narrow, Manchester gay scene lens, fine, don't f*cking write for something like this, or I don't know try and broaden your horizon a bit? Again I'm someone who enjoys writing about only a few things I admit, supernatural, dinosaurs and characters based on eccentric female singers, hence the name of my channel Divas, Dinosaurs and Demons. Still even a wannabe hack like me, when I was writing my DW sequel series, didn't crowbar it full of those things. I actually shudder gasp, tried to write a DW story. Okay you might think it's a shit DW story LOL, but at least I tried. (By the way, sorry to say this Russell but even my niche interests would be less out of place in DW than yours. Having the Doctors companion be played by Kate Nash or Dionne Bromfield, and having him fight Dinosaurs and vampires in some stories wouldn't have to change his entire persona or split him in two, unlike having him dance on tables in gay night clubs!) Andrew Cartmel summed RTD up beautifully when he rejected one of his scripts in the 80s and said. "You'd be better placed writing a more prozaic story about a man, his mortgage and his dog." I always thought that was quite a harsh rejection letter, but clearly Andrew Cartmel wanted this guy to stay away from science fiction forever LMFAO. He was the hero we needed. |
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Post by rushy on Dec 23, 2023 12:15:59 GMT
Isn't Cartmel also the only one who spoke up against the Timeless Children
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Post by RobFilth on Dec 23, 2023 12:19:18 GMT
I must confess, I have my own reservations and criticisms about Andrew Cartmel, I don't personally consider him a very good script editor, however if he rejected one of Fatheads pieces of doggrel then my respect for him has just shot up a million per cent.
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 23, 2023 12:26:47 GMT
I must confess, I have my own reservations and criticisms about Andrew Cartmel, I don't personally consider him a very good script editor, however if he rejected one of Fatheads pieces of doggrel then my respect for him has just shot up a million per cent. He did. The story RTD submitted was the Long Game, which Cartmel thought was one of the worst scripts he'd ever read. Also I'm sure you know this, not just being a fan in your own right, but because I've brought it up billions of times LOL but Cartmel also included a caricature of Chris Chibnall and the obnoxious Fitzroy Crowd types with Whizz Kid. Certainly the character was based physically on Chibnall (though granted that came more from JNT who was really pissed about the open air interview.) However even then the Fitzroy Crowd were beginning to take over fandom and being little bitches about it in things like Doctor Who Bulletin and so on, so yeah Whizz Kid was their revenge. Given how the Chibnall era went down, it also ended up being quite prophetic. |
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Post by rushy on Dec 23, 2023 12:30:44 GMT
He did. The story RTD submitted was the Long Game, which Cartmel thought was one of the worst scripts he'd ever read. Which Big Finish eventually released under its original title "Mind of the Hodiac". It was a Sixth Doctor/Mel script, presumably meant for the original season 23 |
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Post by mott1 on Dec 23, 2023 15:45:21 GMT
Anyway getting back on topic. More shit from RTD and his cast. Ncuti Gatwa: ‘I know gay men who are exactly like the Doctor’ We choose our families. And the Doctor is a lonely wanderer, looking for their next adventure … I know many a gay man, MANY a gay man, I could describe that way!”Russell T Davies: Now Ncuti Gatwa is the first Black doctor. It’s always pushing forward, it’s always got something to say and has always tried to welcome people in. From my point of view, whatever I make on television, I try to embrace queerness and queer politics and that’s like breathing to me because that’s my world. That’s how I live.”
Oh and there is also lots of controversy coming up. www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/millie-gibson-doctor-who-ruby-interview-b2467889.htmlRussell how can I put this? DOCTOR WHO IS NOT A GAY SHOW! It's a show about a man who travels through time and space fighting monsters and aliens and going on weird adventures. Get f*cking over yourself. If you are such a limited writer you can only see things from that tiny narrow, Manchester gay scene lens, fine, don't f*cking write for something like this, or I don't know try and broaden your horizon a bit? Again I'm someone who enjoys writing about only a few things I admit, supernatural, dinosaurs and characters based on eccentric female singers, hence the name of my channel Divas, Dinosaurs and Demons. Still even a wannabe hack like me, when I was writing my DW sequel series, didn't crowbar it full of those things. I actually shudder gasp, tried to write a DW story. Okay you might think it's a shit DW story LOL, but at least I tried. (By the way, sorry to say this Russell but even my niche interests would be less out of place in DW than yours. Having the Doctors companion be played by Kate Nash or Dionne Bromfield, and having him fight Dinosaurs and vampires in some stories wouldn't have to change his entire persona or split him in two, unlike having him dance on tables in gay night clubs!) Andrew Cartmel summed RTD up beautifully when he rejected one of his scripts in the 80s and said. "You'd be better placed writing a more prozaic story about a man, his mortgage and his dog." I always thought that was quite a harsh rejection letter, but clearly Andrew Cartmel wanted this guy to stay away from science fiction forever LMFAO. He was the hero we needed. It will be one of the great mysteries of our time how a man who had a DW script rejected for his lack of imagination or scope ended up running the franchise (and being declared a genius by much of the mainstream media). Does this mean by extension that if I send a rubbish Who script in to Davies (although I imagine the worse-written it is the more he'd like it!) that years in the future I'll be able to run Dr Who too, completely baseing it around my own town, character and interests, without the slightest thought about the program's audience!? |
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Post by rushy on Dec 23, 2023 21:49:34 GMT
It will be one of the great mysteries of our time how a man who had a DW script rejected for his lack of imagination or scope ended up running the franchise (and being declared a genius by much of the mainstream media). He had clout and success in 2005 that he didn't in 1986. That can get you a long way. Let's not forget that Terrance vetoed the casting of Davison, Colin and McCoy. He explicitly mentioned on a commentary that he didn't think they were as good as the first four. The point I'm trying to make is that what previous script editors think has no real bearing on what the show does after their hold over it is relinquished. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Dec 23, 2023 22:50:46 GMT
It will be one of the great mysteries of our time how a man who had a DW script rejected for his lack of imagination or scope ended up running the franchise (and being declared a genius by much of the mainstream media). He had clout and success in 2005 that he didn't in 1986. That can get you a long way. Let's not forget that Terrance vetoed the casting of Davison, Colin and McCoy. He explicitly mentioned on a commentary that he didn't think they were as good as the first four. The point I'm trying to make is that what previous script editors think has no real bearing on what the show does after their hold over it is relinquished. ? How did he veto them? Terrance was no longer script editor and they all got cast... |
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Post by iank on Dec 24, 2023 0:05:05 GMT
#cartmelwasright
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Post by rushy on Dec 24, 2023 0:05:18 GMT
Sorry, English isn't my first language. You can't use veto in the context of him not approving of a decision?
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Post by UncleDeadly on Dec 24, 2023 0:15:16 GMT
Sorry, English isn't my first language. You can't use veto in the context of him not approving of a decision? Fair do's. But 'fraid not; one either holds the power of veto or doesn't. |
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Post by RobFilth on Dec 24, 2023 0:47:08 GMT
Yeah, Terrance may not have wildly approved of JNT's choice in Doctors, but he had no power to veto anything during the 80's.
In fact Barry Letts had more power than Terrance Dicks did at that time considering that the overly cautious BBC asked him to be a consultant producer during JNT's first year to ease him into a role which he had limited previous experience of.(two stints during the Williams era, standing in for Williams during Power of Kroll and City of Death)
I'm not sure whether Letts would have had any input into the casting of Davison or not, but all of the Doctors castings chosen by the producer still had to be green lit by BBC top management before they had authorisation to go ahead with them.
Cartmel might well have rejected RTD's script because it was too similiar in concept to the DWM comic strip "Dreamers of Death"? Although I'm not a big fan of Cartmels hamfisted hack'n'slash script editing and preference for soul searching, navel gazing characters all having mental breakdowns and spouting gibberish cryptic dialogue, he does seem to go in for original concept plots in a big way during his time on the programme, which is hugely different to RTD's plagiarist populist approach and characters all grunting Sun reading moronic chav-speak.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 5:42:57 GMT
I must confess, I have my own reservations and criticisms about Andrew Cartmel, I don't personally consider him a very good script editor, however if he rejected one of Fatheads pieces of doggrel then my respect for him has just shot up a million per cent. He did. The story RTD submitted was the Long Game, which Cartmel thought was one of the worst scripts he'd ever read. Also I'm sure you know this, not just being a fan in your own right, but because I've brought it up billions of times LOL but Cartmel also included a caricature of Chris Chibnall and the obnoxious Fitzroy Crowd types with Whizz Kid. Certainly the character was based physically on Chibnall (though granted that came more from JNT who was really pissed about the open air interview.) However even then the Fitzroy Crowd were beginning to take over fandom and being little bitches about it in things like Doctor Who Bulletin and so on, so yeah Whizz Kid was their revenge. Given how the Chibnall era went down, it also ended up being quite prophetic. Man that guy was hot, even under the nerd attire. Also are you sure he was based directly on Chibnall? He was hardly a big deal back in the 80s, only having appeared once on some talk show to discuss DW as far as I recall. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 5:44:35 GMT
It will be one of the great mysteries of our time how a man who had a DW script rejected for his lack of imagination or scope ended up running the franchise (and being declared a genius by much of the mainstream media). He had clout and success in 2005 that he didn't in 1986. That can get you a long way. Let's not forget that Terrance vetoed the casting of Davison, Colin and McCoy. He explicitly mentioned on a commentary that he didn't think they were as good as the first four. The point I'm trying to make is that what previous script editors think has no real bearing on what the show does after their hold over it is relinquished.He was right lol. |
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