Russell T Davies to return as Doctor Who showrunner

[henshin]

Mar 24, 2022 22:45:18 GMT mott1 said:

Another name that keeps coming up as a Jodie replacement is Danny Dyer, as he's leaving Eastenders!

Then again the Russell Tovey rumour is a convincing one, as RTD now thinks only gay men should play gay roles. Not sure if that means Tovey is secretly a Time Lord too...

Precisely the same rumour was happening with Kris Marshall in the lead-up to Whittaker because, at the time, because he happened to be leaving whichever show he was known for at the time.

I think the announcement will just hit as a  surprise, and i'm the guy who thought Hugh Grant was a credible bet.

[RobFilth]

Mar 24, 2022 22:45:18 GMT mott1 said:

Then again the Russell Tovey rumour is a convincing one, as RTD now thinks only gay men should play gay roles. Not sure if that means Tovey is secretly a Time Lord too...

If not Tovey I'm willing to bet it will almost certainly be a gay male actor.

After Jodie Shittaker, Fathead knows he'll get away with it because he can just call anyone who doesn't like his choice of actor a homophobe.

Still, the reaction from the Jodie TERF squad should be amusing.

[burrunjor]

Mar 25, 2022 7:38:30 GMT RobFilth said:

Mar 24, 2022 22:45:18 GMT mott1 said:

Then again the Russell Tovey rumour is a convincing one, as RTD now thinks only gay men should play gay roles. Not sure if that means Tovey is secretly a Time Lord too...

If not Tovey I'm willing to bet it will almost certainly be a gay male actor.

After Jodie Shittaker, Fathead knows he'll get away with it because he can just call anyone who doesn't like his choice of actor a homophobe.

Still, the reaction from the Jodie TERF squad should be amusing.

Agreed, also sadly due to the shallow Prick from the Young Ones style politics taking over the fandom, casting the Doctor isn't about getting a good actor anymore. (Hence why Jodie got the part.)

It's about being the first to cast a particular minority in the role. Chinballs thinks he'll go down in history as a pioneer for being the first to cast a woman, so RTD will similarly want a piece of that action, and therefore his main priority will be going down in history as the first to cast a gay man. Then whoever comes after will want to be the first to cast a Chinese person, the first to cast a trans person etc. That's all they care about. 

Also I think it could be Tovey as the Fitzroy Crowd have always been incestous. Matt Smith who perhaps unsurprisingly was the best, was the only one who got the role the old fashioned way. He went up for it and won it fair and square. 

All the others were mates of the showrunner. Eccelston (until the punch up) Tennant, Capaldi, Jodie and even Gomez etc. I don't mind people casting their mates as long as they are right for the role, but the likes of Eccelston, Gomez and Whittaker show that it was more, I'll cast my mate and to hell with the character. (Which is why Pissy Missy fans annoy me all the more. That afro ball bag got away with nepotism as well as destroying a classic character, but I won't go down that rant again LOL.) 

[billpatjontom]

Curious to read about the Hugh Grant rumour. FWIW I don't think he'd make a good Doctor even by the atrocious standards of "New Who" although of course any one would surely be an improvement on Jodie whether man, woman, fish or fowl 

Grant has actually appeared in one movie that I really enjoyed even if it was quite a long time ago now - Lair of the White Worm - but my liking for that film is probably much more due to the talents of Ken Russell, Amanda Donohoe and even Peter Capaldi rather than Grant.

Anyway, we've already seen what kind of "Doctor Who" show RTD runs. He had his chance and he blew it imo. So I don't think we really need to see any more versions of his "Doctor" no matter who takes the part!  

I've no idea who should play the Doctor in any new series. I'd rather no one undertook the role particularly if it was under the dire auspices of the current BBC. It's just sad they can't come up with anything original that's worthwhile but they still persist in tarnishing old classic series' reputations with their agenda driven shite.

[burrunjor]

Mar 25, 2022 9:19:05 GMT billpatjontom said:

Curious to read about the Hugh Grant rumour. FWIW I don't think he'd make a good Doctor even by the atrocious standards of "New Who" although of course any one would surely be an improvement on Jodie whether man, woman, fish or fowl 

Grant has actually appeared in one movie that I really enjoyed even if it was quite a long time ago now - Lair of the White Worm - but my liking for that film is probably much more due to the talents of Ken Russell, Amanda Donohoe and even Peter Capaldi rather than Grant.

Anyway, we've already seen what kind of "Doctor Who" show RTD runs. He had his chance and he blew it imo. So I don't think we really need to see any more versions of his "Doctor" no matter who takes the part!  

I've no idea who should play the Doctor in any new series. I'd rather no one undertook the role particularly if it was under the dire auspices of the current BBC. It's just sad they can't come up with anything original that's worthwhile but they still persist in tarnishing old classic series' reputations with their agenda driven shite.

Oh I forgot about Amanda Donohoe. God is she gorgeous and sexy! She is one of these people that just can't not be sexy. Much like Lucy Lawless, even if she plays a smog monster from hell, you'd still want to be with her LOL. She's also proof of why people shouldn't get plastic surgery. She still looks unbelievable, yet she has never been under the knife. She obviously looks a lot older, but that's good. That's natural. Much like Shobna Gulati who is completely grey haired and still a sexy babe, ageing naturally is always better than getting these face implants and lips, though I won't name any actresses who have had that as A/ that would be body shaming and B/ they are under the worst pressure from the ghastly entertainment industry to look young. Hell even 30 is considered OAP for actresses these days sadly. 

As for the rest of it. I agree. At this stage there is nothing left of Doctor Who's core identity anymore. The fact that actors as diverse as Hugh Grant, Russell Tovey, Olly Alexander and what's her name from Killing Eve have all been put forward shows you that there is no character of the Doctor anymore. 

People act like that is a good thing but it's not. It's the worst thing that could happen to any character. All characters need to have specific types of actors playing them to set them apart from each other. Xena for instance is Xena because only a big amazonian woman like Lucy Lawless or Gina Carano could play her. That defines her as the big, unstoppable badass. Obviously a man therefore couldn't, but even a woman like Sarah Michelle Gellar who is too slight wouldn't work . With this in mind imagine if there were a remake of Xena and the potential choices being put forward were Ade Edmondson, Ford Keirnan, Paloma Faith and Whoopi Goldberg you'd be thinking "what the f*ck is this character supposed to be if all of these completely different people can play it?"

Again I know "but the doctor regenerates" but as we have been over the course of True Who there was still a template to that, hence why Davison aside they always went for eccentric character actors who couldn't play leading men in other things like Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker (both of them) and McCoy (and because the character was a man, then naturally men fit that better as still being believable as William Hartnell under the new face.) Hell even New Who, whilst it deviated from the original, to its fans it had a template for its Doctors from Eccelston to Capaldi. IE their Doctor was always a bit more romantic, tortured and an outsider and was played by what I like to call conventional unconventional LOL. IE actors who are maybe a bit more off kilter, but not to the same extent as say Hartnell. For instance neither Hartnell nor Tennant would ever be cast as Bond, but Tennant could still be the Hugh Grantish romantic lead in a rom com. The nerdy guy, who is still good looking, but people underestimate him because he is quirky and who wins the girl in the end. Hartnell however was only cast as villains, bit parts and really off kilter parts prior to playing DW. Same with Pertwee who was an eccentric rubber faced comedian, Tom and Colin who were villain actors, McCoy who is the definition of oddball actor, and Troughton who by that point had graduated into doing creepy character roles. 

Now however it's not just the gender thing which DID deviate from both templates already. (Hence why Old Who and RTD fans were united in their dislike of it.) Thanks to the Timeless Children, the Doctor can literally be anyone now.  He can be a ziggy stardust style androgynous type like Olly Alexander,  he can also be a romantic, sensitive, womanizer like Hugh Grant, completely sexless rodeo clown like Jodie's Doctor, a bland conventional leading man like Russell Tovey, a rabid feminist like the Killing Eve woman. There is no limit on what he can be. It's funny because Chinballs will think "good I've given minorities a chance to play the lead." In actual fact all he has done is take one of the few leading roles away from eccentric character actor types. What leading role would the modern day version of William Hartnell or Tom Baker get? Meanwhile if he wasn't so ignorant the toupee wearing git would know that there are just as many leading roles for women, ESPECIALLY in genre tv, same with black and minority characters. 

The whole thing needs some kind of rest and reboot. At this stage Russell is keeping it on life support. Do you know his first series won't start until 2024? FFS that will be three years after Jodie's last season! If you add up all the hiatuses since Jodie was first announced, then the show will now have been off the air as an ongoing series for as long as the break between McCoy and McGann. Just admit you failed you twonks, give it a proper hiatus and let someone else have a go!

[billpatjontom]

Yes I agree about Amanda Donohoe 

And I think you're absolutely correct about Who having lost its core identity thanks to the modern show that masquerades under the Who brand.

One thing about the original true Who series is that no matter how much it changed throughout the years - and there were undoubtedly some big changes made in style and tone - the fundamental essence of the character and his unique activities never really altered too much. Obviously the character's idiosyncracies would reflect the differing mannerisms and personas of (Doctor) Whoever the lead actor was at the time. But the character of the Doctor never strayed too far from being the same mysterious, eccentric scientist adventurer established by Hartnell from the very beginning. So you could always find some common traits shared by all seven of the original Doctors. Perhaps this made it possible to accept the concept that the Hartnell Doctor really had regenerated into theTroughton version and so on. The way I always liked to imagine the Doctor of true Who was that the character himself remained constant but, every time he regenerated, different aspects of the same basic personality would come to the fore. I think this partly explains why the original series could remain so successful for so long. 

"New Who" or whatever you might want to call it, never evolved in quite the same way. I think this is partly why it doesn't compare favourably with the original series. The whole style of the show and treatment of its characters is wildly different with altogether different emphasis, for instance revolving around companions' characters much more than the original series ever attempted. I don't even think the new series deserves to be classed as science fiction any more. It's a different format altogether and indeed any similarities to the original show (such as the TARDIS, Daleks, Cybermen etc) seem relatively superficial. It feels difficult to believe the idea that Eccleston and Tennant are supposed to be portraying the same character never mind that they're also supposed to be the same character as say Sylvester McCoy's Doctor or indeed any predecessors. The modern "Doctor" is so markedly different in everything from speech, attitude and behaviour (and latterly gender) that such a bastardized version of the show makes it virtually pointless to try to link the character to any one of the original Doctors. Moreover, this version of the show has no effective consistency upon which to build. It may have changed surprisingly little in style since 2005 but if anything it has continued to grow progressively worse in quality.

[Bernard Marx]

I might give the next era a brief look, irrespective of my cynical expectations, although the return of previous egos doesn’t exactly assure me. Hiring a new talent with a more hard-hitting narrative streak or genuine interest in science fiction would get me excited, but the programme feels completely static, as encompassed by RTD’s return. Situated in the same rut for nearly two decades now, and with absolutely no creative escape.

In regards to some of the previous posts, and regarding the possibility of the next era being a reprieve. I grew up with NuWho and technically saw some of it before the classic era, so I can hardly say I hated it immediately (it's a very different story now...). Naturally, given how rubbish most of the writing is, and given the insurmountable egos surrounding the programme during this period, my nostalgia has largely dissipated. I can still appreciate elements of the occasional stronger episode, but they're nowhere near enough to compensate for the shite, especially long-term.

Besides, I ultimately grew up with both the original and new series, and even recognised the gaping chasm in quality at the time. In terms of dialogue, literary and scientific influence, world-building, internal and narrative logic, versatility, ideas, etc, there simply isn’t any comparison, and that occurred to me even then.

Stories inspired by Cocteau (Warriors Gate), Evelyn Waugh (Revelation of the Daleks) and The Manchurian Candidate (The Deadly Assassin); stories which implemented pioneering sound design even through selected stock music (Delia Derbyshire alone was integral to the emergence of Wendy Carlos and Aphex Twin, and was essential in evoking the sheer intensity of Inferno); eras which skilfully transitioned for over two decades without becoming mundane or inflexible. These qualities were endemic to such a long-lasting series. Whatever flaws the classic series had, it undeniably borrowed from the best. Having recently watched the film “Intolerance” (1916), it’s clear that The Massacre (based on the surviving photos) took cues from the film’s own take on the historical event in its costuming. These are all qualities that NuWho blatantly lacks. There’s barely anything beneath the surface, nor many interesting influences at play.

However, even putting that aside, the Chibnall era is simply a natural extension of what NuWho started out as. It's the natural end point, or even the microcosmic distillation, of a series fundamentally bereft of ideas, innovation or originality. It’s what the RTD and Moffat eras would be when bereft of their redeeming qualities.

Unless a radical departure from a long-since stale template occurs, the next era will not offer a reprieve from this. It’ll simply extend a formula which, whilst admittedly succeeding almost two decades ago courtesy of adhering to the expectations of the 2000s zeitgeist, run its course years ago.

It’s perfectly possible to adapt, but the programme clearly doesn’t want to. On that note, expecting anything special feels futile to me personally.

[mott1]

I saw some absolute nonsense from Bowlestrek about how now the show will be 'better-written but as woke as Chibnall'. What incredible perception!

[Bernard Marx]

Apr 4, 2022 20:53:19 GMT mott1 said:

I saw some absolute nonsense from Bowlestrek about how now the show will be 'better-written but as woke as Chibnall'. What incredible perception!

Yeah, I think it was along the lines of “It will be woke garbage, but it will now be well-written woke garbage”.

Firstly, there’s no telling whether it will actually be well-written in itself, and given all indications thus far, I’m not willing to bet on it. It’ll probably be the same old lazy shite. Secondly, and most pertinently, how can an era be “garbage” if it’s well-written?

If you start prioritising the political aesthetic of a series above the quality of its writing, you become no better than the people you criticise. The issues I have with the Chibnall era is that, alongside the vacuous neoliberal identitarian politics it posits (especially in Kerblam), the writing is absolute dogshit. Yet these issues aren’t mutually exclusive either. The ineptitude of a political message in a piece of fiction is amplified and characterised, crucially, by bad writing. If the delivery of your political message is ham-fisted, clumsy, or lacking in incisive commentary or subtext, it’s likely because the writer isn’t cut out for the job first and foremost.

In the case of Doctor Who in general, Terrence Dicks was a Conservative, whilst Malcolm Hulke was a Leftist. Tellingly, both co-wrote The War Games, one of the best stories of the lot. I personally gravitate much more towards the views of the latter (and reckon that The Silurians is one of Who’s most intelligent scripts), but can strongly respect and enjoy Dicks’ output despite disagreeing with his politics, because Dicks himself wasn’t an egotist, nor was he an appallingly vacuous writer. Context is crucial.

[zarius]

OK, so it's all been kicking off this week in the rumour round ups

-Someone tweeted out a letter from Bad Wolf they received notifying them that their street would be used in location filming across 3rd of June through to the 9th. It's expected to feature soldiers and controlled explosions

-Speculation that there will be a Doctor announcement on May 14th during the FA Cup Final

-A new leak on reddit suggests the 60th anniversary is a more 'back to basics' alien invasion story which is less celebratory of the franchise and more about The Doctor trying to reconnect with Donna Noble after fifteen years. And yes, Tennant is Jodies' successor as speculated, but only for a while.

[RobFilth]

That sounds vaguely like a reset to me.

[burrunjor]

May 5, 2022 10:33:04 GMT zarius said:

OK, so it's all been kicking off this week in the rumour round ups

-Someone tweeted out a letter from Bad Wolf they received notifying them that their street would be used in location filming across 3rd of June through to the 9th. It's expected to feature soldiers and controlled explosions

-Speculation that there will be a Doctor announcement on May 14th during the FA Cup Final

-A new leak on reddit suggests the 60th anniversary is a more 'back to basics' alien invasion story which is less celebratory of the franchise and more about The Doctor trying to reconnect with Donna Noble after fifteen years. And yes, Tennant is Jodies' successor as speculated, but only for a while.

If that is true, then this is all I have to say to RTD is.




Alien invasions in modern day? Donna Noble? David Tennant? How hilarious that the all about change Fitzroy mob are the most creatively bankrupt people ever to run DW that they are the first to basically jump back to an old era in its 60 year history. 

Having said that though maybe it's not the worst thing as this could effectively write out all of the Moffat and Chibnall era. 

Whilst I'll be sad to see Matt and Karen go, at the end of the day, losing Missy, Cyber Brig, Jodie, the Timeless Children and gender bending Time Lords will be a plus. As much as people here may have disliked the RTD era it was still salvagable after him, a seen with Matt and Karen. It was only when we reached Missy and Cyber Brig that we reached a point of no return. RTD can't be blamed for Moff torpedoing himself. 

[ClockworkOcean]

If he actually has the brass neck to pull a Dallas and reset things back to 2010, I might just give him a chance. His idea of what Doctor Who should be is very far from mine, but it would at least restore the show to a salvageable point from which better things could grow. The damage caused by the 2014-2022 era far outweighs the positives of the Smith era.

[burrunjor]

May 5, 2022 11:03:20 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

If he actually has the brass neck to pull a Dallas and reset things back to 2010, I might just give him a chance. His idea of what Doctor Who should be is very far from mine, but it would at least restore the show to a salvageable point from which better things could grow. The damage caused by the 2014-2022 era far outweighs the positives of the Smith era.

Agreed and I'll admire old Rusty for being willing to scrub the Capaldi era too. 

It pisses me off that Moffat was able to pull a Tiberius and Caligula and people don't look on the Capaldi era as being as bad because of what followed with Jodie. 

If he does that, then truly all hail RTD. Still chances are, given what a clique the Fitzroy Crowd are, then it will most likely be Tennant being the 14th, or is it 14th million now I can't remember. 

Still we'll see. 

[zarius]