Russell T Davies to return as Doctor Who showrunner

[Deleted]

What are these people on, because you'd have to be smoking some amazing gear to see the Sellout era... I mean Davies era as the best of Doctor Who. The funny part is these guys rage on and on about woke culture, yet the Davies era is pretty much when that stuff got it's foot in the door! It makes them sound like right fokking hypocrites. I've said it befor, I'll accept anyone changing their mind but not scummy twats who flip-flop on issues to suit themselves. Have a little intellectual honesty and some self-awareness for goodness sake.

[henshin]

Oct 13, 2021 20:44:26 GMT zarius said:

"Can you do that? Can you tal- in- wor- tha- are- onl- thr- let- BUT WHY?!!!!"

Right?!

Imagine abbreviating "Doctor Who" to a duo of two or three lettered words.

Impossible. 

[burrunjor]

Nothing to do with the thread, but I just saw this on facebook and it was funny as f*ck. 




The Matt and Jodie ones are the most hilarious.

[iank]

I'm actually really deflated by Davies being involved. I could actually have been quite excited by the notion of an independent company taking the reins, but the involvement of this overrated self-important blowhard hack really sucks any enthusiasm or interest in this now.

[burrunjor]

Oct 19, 2021 23:06:03 GMT iank said:

I'm actually really deflated by Davies being involved. I could actually have been quite excited by the notion of an independent company taking the reins, but the involvement of this overrated self-important blowhard hack really sucks any enthusiasm or interest in this now.

I feel exactly the same way and remember I don't even have as much dislike for the RTD era as say Rob or Uncle Deadly do either. No one meanwhile has as much dislike for it as Monk LOL.

As a sci fi show in its own right I can still quite enjoy the RTD era. I like some of its story arcs, world building, monsters, comic book style (and the babes like Michelle Ryan and Freema Agyeman and Paloma Faith, I mean Billie Piper.)

Still ffs isn't it time we got somebody new? How long are the bastard Fitzroy Crowd going to hang onto this franchise? Even if they were as good at doing true Doctor Who as Philip Hinchcliff and Barry Letts combined, they've had their grubby little mits around this series and all of its spin off material from comics to audios for over 30 f*cking years! 

I was a baby in my crib when these bastards first started writing their edge lord, horny bastard, "adult" crappy new adventures. I'm now 30 years old and I know that at least for the next 5 years at least we're going to get more of their watered down, soap opera, right on, basterdisation of true Who.

GIVE SOMEONE ELSE A GO YOU BASTARDS! 

[Bernard Marx]

Oct 20, 2021 9:24:06 GMT burrunjor said:

Oct 19, 2021 23:06:03 GMT iank said:

I'm actually really deflated by Davies being involved. I could actually have been quite excited by the notion of an independent company taking the reins, but the involvement of this overrated self-important blowhard hack really sucks any enthusiasm or interest in this now.

I feel exactly the same way and remember I don't even have as much dislike for the RTD era as say Rob or Uncle Deadly do either. No one meanwhile has as much dislike for it as Monk LOL.

As a sci fi show in its own right I can still quite enjoy the RTD era. I like some of its story arcs, world building, monsters, comic book style (and the babes like Michelle Ryan and Freema Agyeman and Paloma Faith, I mean Billie Piper.)

Still ffs isn't it time we got somebody new? How long are the bastard Fitzroy Crowd going to hang onto this franchise? Even if they were as good at doing true Doctor Who as Philip Hinchcliff and Barry Letts combined, they've had their grubby little mits around this series and all of its spin off material from comics to audios for over 30 fokking years! 

I was a baby in my crib when these bastards first started writing their edge lord, horny bastard, "adult" crappy new adventures. I'm now 30 years old and I know that at least for the next 5 years at least we're going to get more of their watered down, soap opera, right on, basterdisation of true Who.

GIVE SOMEONE ELSE A GO YOU BASTARDS! 

Agree with most of this- it's massively disconcerting that the only idea they can turn to is to bring Davies back, despite being the most creatively bereft decision imaginable. Bringing Lambert or Hinchcliffe back after Williams left on the grounds that the era wasn't perceived as warmly would be completely reductive given that the series would just be naval-gazing if it did, refusing to adapt or to introduce a new set of ideas. This is even worse, given that it completely counters any pretence of the programme being "all about change" (not to mention the fact that the era was successful in the moment courtesy of adhering to zeitgeist-based trends that have since evaporated). That ethos of "change" didn't exactly stay intact for long, despite being one of the main talking-points in defence of the Chibnall era's revisions...

I'm curious to ask though: What examples of effective world-building from the RTD era stand out? In terms of uniquely constructed alien worlds, I can't think of any examples that stand out to me as being especially imaginative, the closest instance being the Ood (who are themselves hindered by the name). The remainder of alien worlds and designs were essentially variants of animal heads- flies in boiler suits, rhinos in suits, pig men, etc. As far as I could tell, most of the era seemed to dismiss the concept of world-building (see "Never mind the planet Zog!") and conceptual storytelling, with the era's preoccupation instead turned to soap opera archetypes. 

One of my main issues with NuWho is that it rarely bothers to establish or fine-tune the worlds that it happens to embody, rushing through each narrative with little time or interest (exacerbated by the abrupt 45 minute runtime), and the RTD era largely had the same issue.

[burrunjor]

Oct 20, 2021 9:58:20 GMT Bernard Marx said:

Oct 20, 2021 9:24:06 GMT burrunjor said:

I feel exactly the same way and remember I don't even have as much dislike for the RTD era as say Rob or Uncle Deadly do either. No one meanwhile has as much dislike for it as Monk LOL.

As a sci fi show in its own right I can still quite enjoy the RTD era. I like some of its story arcs, world building, monsters, comic book style (and the babes like Michelle Ryan and Freema Agyeman and Paloma Faith, I mean Billie Piper.)

Still ffs isn't it time we got somebody new? How long are the bastard Fitzroy Crowd going to hang onto this franchise? Even if they were as good at doing true Doctor Who as Philip Hinchcliff and Barry Letts combined, they've had their grubby little mits around this series and all of its spin off material from comics to audios for over 30 fokking years! 

I was a baby in my crib when these bastards first started writing their edge lord, horny bastard, "adult" crappy new adventures. I'm now 30 years old and I know that at least for the next 5 years at least we're going to get more of their watered down, soap opera, right on, basterdisation of true Who.

GIVE SOMEONE ELSE A GO YOU BASTARDS! 

Agree with most of this- it's massively disconcerting that the only idea they can turn to is to bring Davies back, despite being the most creatively bereft decision imaginable. Bringing Lambert or Hinchcliffe back after Williams left on the grounds that the era wasn't perceived as warmly would be completely reductive given that the series would just be naval-gazing if it did, refusing to adapt or to introduce a new set of ideas. This is even worse, given that it completely counters any pretence of the programme being "all about change" (not to mention the fact that the era was successful in the moment courtesy of adhering to zeitgeist-based trends that have since evaporated). That ethos of "change" didn't exactly stay intact for long, despite being one of the main talking-points in defence of the Chibnall era's revisions...

I'm curious to ask though: What examples of effective world-building from the RTD era stand out? In terms of uniquely constructed alien worlds, I can't think of any examples that stand out to me as being especially imaginative, the closest instance being the Ood (who are themselves hindered by the name). The remainder of alien worlds and designs were essentially variants of animals heads- flies in boiler suits, rhinos in suits, pig men, etc. As far as I could tell, most of the era seemed to dismiss the concept of world-building (see "Never mind the planet Zog!") and conceptual storytelling, with the era's preoccupation instead turned to soap opera archetypes. 

One of my main issues with NuWho is that it rarely bothers to establish or fine-tune the worlds that it happens to embody, rushing through each narrative with little time or interest (exacerbated by the abrupt 45 minute runtime), and the RTD era largely had the same issue.

Well I liked the following things about the lore in the RTD era.

The Time War. I liked the idea that the universe was now a more chaotic, dangerous place, not only because of the demise of the Time Lords, but because the war itself had twisted and mutated numerous planets and timelines, making it a dark, bleak, unstable place. More so than the universe of the classic era. With the classic era you always felt there was a certain order to things. Not just through the Time Lords, but that the universe was a more rational place. Even the weirdest monster could be explained away by man of science the Doctor. In the RTD era however, we did see lots of instances of the Doctor not knowing what the true nature of the monster he just fought was, like the Midnight Entity and the Beast. A lot of other monsters in the RTD era are creatures who were once proud and noble, but who have been twisted by the war or its after effects to the point where they are insane and possess almost supernatural powers like the Gelth. 

Also I think he tended to blur the line between the supernatural and sci fi to a greater extent, like the Midnight Entity that was for all intents and purposes a Demon posessing people, Durac and the Beast. That story in particular I think really makes you question just what is god? The Beast and the Light could just be beings from the pre universe like Galactus that were mistaken for gods. Or they could be the real deal? Or maybe they are both? Perhaps the Beast and the Light are beings that just popped into existence in the nothingness outside of the multiverse?

That might sound like a ridiculous idea, but remember lots of scientists think that our universe just popped into nothing. (I'd also argue that the law casuality has to be broken sooner or later when you go back to the very beginning, regardless of what you believe. God, a universe from nothing, eternal universe etc.)

With this in mind the Beast and the Light could depending on how you look at it, are divine beings that don't follow our natural order, and weird aliens who just came into existence. Both interpretations are technically valid. 

Also RTD put a greater emphasis on alternate universes and other realities to a greater extent than those before him, which is a subject I have always been fascinated by too. 

Still that said, he couldn't write the character of the Doctor to save his life sadly, and yes he did get bogged down in soap opera tedium, with Love and Monsters being the worst of them all. Added to that we've have 16 years of his style, or people trying to ape his style badly. It's time for ironically a CHANGE! As they are so fond of. 

Sadly however to the Fitzroy Crowd, change involves smashing up the lore and established history of DW, that doesn't need tampering with, rather than in coming up with new stories, new monsters and new planets.

[Bernard Marx]

Oct 20, 2021 10:19:14 GMT burrunjor said:

Oct 20, 2021 9:58:20 GMT Bernard Marx said:

Agree with most of this- it's massively disconcerting that the only idea they can turn to is to bring Davies back, despite being the most creatively bereft decision imaginable. Bringing Lambert or Hinchcliffe back after Williams left on the grounds that the era wasn't perceived as warmly would be completely reductive given that the series would just be naval-gazing if it did, refusing to adapt or to introduce a new set of ideas. This is even worse, given that it completely counters any pretence of the programme being "all about change" (not to mention the fact that the era was successful in the moment courtesy of adhering to zeitgeist-based trends that have since evaporated). That ethos of "change" didn't exactly stay intact for long, despite being one of the main talking-points in defence of the Chibnall era's revisions...

I'm curious to ask though: What examples of effective world-building from the RTD era stand out? In terms of uniquely constructed alien worlds, I can't think of any examples that stand out to me as being especially imaginative, the closest instance being the Ood (who are themselves hindered by the name). The remainder of alien worlds and designs were essentially variants of animals heads- flies in boiler suits, rhinos in suits, pig men, etc. As far as I could tell, most of the era seemed to dismiss the concept of world-building (see "Never mind the planet Zog!") and conceptual storytelling, with the era's preoccupation instead turned to soap opera archetypes. 

One of my main issues with NuWho is that it rarely bothers to establish or fine-tune the worlds that it happens to embody, rushing through each narrative with little time or interest (exacerbated by the abrupt 45 minute runtime), and the RTD era largely had the same issue.

Well I liked the following things about the lore in the RTD era.

The Time War. I liked the idea that the universe was now a more chaotic, dangerous place, not only because of the demise of the Time Lords, but because the war itself had twisted and mutated numerous planets and timelines, making it a dark, bleak, unstable place. More so than the universe of the classic era. With the classic era you always felt there was a certain order to things. Not just through the Time Lords, but that the universe was a more rational place. Even the weirdest monster could be explained away by man of science the Doctor. In the RTD era however, we did see lots of instances of the Doctor not knowing what the true nature of the monster he just fought was, like the Midnight Entity and the Beast. A lot of other monsters in the RTD era are creatures who were once proud and noble, but who have been twisted by the war or its after effects to the point where they are insane and possess almost supernatural powers like the Gelth. 

Also I think he tended to blur the line between the supernatural and sci fi to a greater extent, like the Midnight Entity that was for all intents and purposes a Demon posessing people, Durac and the Beast. That story in particular I think really makes you question just what is god? The Beast and the Light could just be beings from the pre universe like Galactus that were mistaken for gods. Or they could be the real deal? Or maybe they are both? Perhaps the Beast and the Light are beings that just popped into existence in the nothingness outside of the multiverse?

That might sound like a ridiculous idea, but remember lots of scientists think that our universe just popped into nothing. (I'd also argue that the law casuality has to be broken sooner or later when you go back to the very beginning, regardless of what you believe. God, a universe from nothing, eternal universe etc.)

With this in mind the Beast and the Light could depending on how you look at it, are divine beings that don't follow our natural order, and weird aliens who just came into existence. Both interpretations are technically valid. 

Also RTD put a greater emphasis on alternate universes and other realities to a greater extent than those before him, which is a subject I have always been fascinated by too. 

Still that said, he couldn't write the character of the Doctor to save his life sadly, and yes he did get bogged down in soap opera tedium, with Love and Monsters being the worst of them all. Added to that we've have 16 years of his style, or people trying to ape his style badly. It's time for ironically a CHANGE! As they are so fond of. 

Sadly however to the Fitzroy Crowd, change involves smashing up the lore and established history of DW, that doesn't need tampering with, rather than in coming up with new stories, new monsters and new planets.

I concur about Midnight- one of the best episodes of the era- and The Impossible Planet, both of which were much more effective when it came to noteworthy cosmological horror than most stories of the period, even if the latter declines during the latter half and happens to be hindered by tonal confusion in places. The Gelth were solid too, and I consider The Unquiet Dead to be one of the best of series 1 by some distance, despite its obvious flaws. That said, I'd likely deem them the exception to the rule given how most instances of alien design during the era seemed to slip into the prosaic, especially when RTD himself was closely involved.  I'll concede and say that Midnight and Turn Left are two obvious exceptions, the latter of which is related to the alternate universe concept you allude to. That said, it's got absolutely nothing on Inferno in any conceivable way.

That said, even in stories which I'd otherwise consider competent in that respect, as with Unquiet Dead, Tooth and Claw (despite the obnoxious gags), Planet of the Ood etc, are all hindered by the structure and runtime which make most of these promising ideas feel somewhat half-baked and unfinished. New Who's better ideas would be much more intriguing if they happened to be more tonally continent and better structured.

I know that a few people complain about the opening episode of Revelation of the Daleks, courtesy of being lighter on action and heavier on world-building and development, but the central conceits of the story (that of "consumer resistance" in relation to a free-market system where death is commodified, as echoed by Evelyn Waugh's "The Loved One"- a conceit and idea that NuWho wouldn't touch in a million years) are made all the stronger because of it. 

[Deleted]

Fatheads so called “world building” pretty much involved making the show revolve around the Doctor, his current companion and the Earth. Most of it involves earth, it’s future and parallel self or the time war, or what ever pointless mystery box acts as that series’ though line.

It doesn’t half make all of time and space feel pretty bloody small. The Time War is not even developed any meaningful way, it’s just your standered stuff like The Gates of Illisiam, which sound just like any other awesome sounding bs you’ve read about in any work of fiction, or The Could've-Been King led the Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres, which sounds like utter jibberish.

You want real world building? Look up Vampire Hunter D. A 38 novel series, not counting spin-offs and tie-ins, that’s being going since 1983. It Combines wester, sci-if, cyber-punk, mythology and horror.

[greywoolfe]

Sept 25, 2021 13:08:54 GMT burrunjor said:

Sept 25, 2021 6:57:06 GMT greywoolfe said:

As long as Rusty can retcon that godawful Timeless Children bullcrap, I can forgive him anything...

Long time no see, welcome back. Post more often. 

Sadly though I don't think he will. He and Chibbers are great friends. Who knows maybe he is taking the fall for Chibbers. 

Thanks. I hope to be around a bit more, I literally just moved to Norfolk to retire, so once everythings unpacked and redecorated, I'll have the time to pop on!

[zarius]

Oct 31, 2021 11:02:34 GMT greywoolfe said:

Sept 25, 2021 13:08:54 GMT burrunjor said:

Long time no see, welcome back. Post more often. 

Sadly though I don't think he will. He and Chibbers are great friends. Who knows maybe he is taking the fall for Chibbers. 

Thanks. I hope to be around a bit more, I literally just moved to Norfolk to retire, so once everythings unpacked and redecorated, I'll have the time to pop on!

Norfolks' maddest man!

[zarius]

The BBC stands to lose £40 million in commercial revenue for every ten episodes due to Bad Wolf and RTD's takeover of the programme



www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-set-to-lose-out-over-doctor-who-gtq3tfv79

[iank]

If that doesn't show how desperate they were/are...

[#BeKind 🏳️‍🌈🇪🇺🇺🇦]

Oct 20, 2021 10:19:14 GMT burrunjor said:

It's time for ironically a CHANGE! As they are so fond of.

LOL why are yuo fascist turds so obsesed with ''change''??

docter who has ALWAYS been about traditien liek why do u think they brougt the daleks back in 2005? 

Seriesly do i ACTUALLY have too explain to you peices of shit why not all change is good? HITLER wining the 1945 electien was ''CHANGE'' would you of supported that wait dont answer LOL

[burrunjor]

Mar 12, 2022 19:19:21 GMT #BeKind 🏳️‍🌈🇪🇺🇺🇦 said:

Oct 20, 2021 10:19:14 GMT burrunjor said:

It's time for ironically a CHANGE! As they are so fond of.

LOL why are yuo fascist turds so obsesed with ''change''??

docter who has ALWAYS been about traditien liek why do u think they brougt the daleks back in 2005? 

Seriesly do i ACTUALLY have too explain to you peices of shit why not all change is good? HITLER wining the 1945 electien was ''CHANGE'' would you of supported that wait dont answer LOL

I would be very interested to hear what you think of Gina Carano LOL.