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Post by burrunjor on Mar 21, 2022 8:51:38 GMT
I agree. Also remember that Hugh is friends with Russell having worked with him on Years and Years. He has a habit of casting his friends, Eccelston, Tennant, with Russell Tovey also being his choice for the 11th. Thing is though Hugh Grant clearly doesn't think much of DW. He regretted turning it down only because of how successful the revival became. Flash forward 18 years and well it's not in the same healthy position now. Personally though I wish it would just die. Even as someone who enjoyed the early years of New Who at this stage even if it manages to be good, then it will still be tainted by the Timeless Children retcon. No matter how much they push their all change is good bullshit, fans will never accept that retcon. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 21, 2022 8:52:26 GMT
Sorry it wasn't Years and Years it was a Very English Scandal or something that Hugh Grant worked with Russell on.
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Post by henshin on Mar 21, 2022 10:23:38 GMT
I should also note that prior to the casting of Smith, everyone was sure it was either Michael Sheen or Robert Carlisle.
When everyone expected Ben Daniels, we got Capaldi.
Kris Marshall was supposedly the safest bet you could make before Whittaker happened.
A part of me, while agreeing there is some substance to the Grant rumour, thinks this could just be another false flag.
But, that would suggest a casting announcement is happening soon.
When all of the aforementioned non-castings were announced, the official one followed shortly after.
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Mar 21, 2022 12:51:04 GMT
It's pretty much irrelevant to me at this point. Only pulling a Dallas and resetting the show to Capaldi's regeneration at the very latest could convince me to give NuWho another chance.
Alternatively, if RTD's proposed MCU-style reinvention of the series were to happen, I might be willing to watch something set in an earlier era as long as it was 100% free of identity politics or references to the Chibnall era. Even then, if it were an ongoing series, I'd wait until it had finished so that other fans could confirm to me that those conditions had been met rather than risking any nasty surprises.
Realistically, that's the best-case scenario for my future as a fan. Doctor Who as a continuing story remains dead to me.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 21, 2022 21:39:23 GMT
I should also note that prior to the casting of Smith, everyone was sure it was either Michael Sheen or Robert Carlisle. When everyone expected Ben Daniels, we got Capaldi. Kris Marshall was supposedly the safest bet you could make before Whittaker happened. A part of me, while agreeing there is some substance to the Grant rumour, thinks this could just be another false flag. But, that would suggest a casting announcement is happening soon. When all of the aforementioned non-castings were announced, the official one followed shortly after. Could be. At this stage I do wonder if they are having trouble attracting a new actor and throwing out all of these rumours in the hopes of getting someone big by making them think that guys like Hugh Grant are even remotely interested. It is kind of a poisoned chalice right now. I'm not even talking about the quality of the show. The fact that casting the Doctor has become a political statement, means whoever is cast is going to be at the center of a shit storm form both sides. Would it be worth it? Especially given the show is on really shaky ground and you could end up being blamed for it ending. |
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Post by henshin on Mar 21, 2022 21:53:39 GMT
Well Hugh Grant did reject the offer back in 2004 with the concern that the show could flop. If his agent is worth an ounce, i'm sure he would have been warned that the show is well past its prime right now. So there's that. But, again, RTD is back and Hugh did express affection for the role and a regret of not taking it back in the mid-2000s. It really could go either way. Unless, he's in talks for some other role in Doctor Who. For all we know, they may want him to play Rassilon or The Master in the 60th Anniversary special or something.
It's also why i've described the coming era as this generation's Cartmel era. It may work some last minute miracles, but not enough to boost the ratings to their prime.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 21, 2022 22:29:16 GMT
Well Hugh Grant did reject the offer back in 2004 with the concern that the show could flop. If his agent is worth an ounce, i'm sure he would have been warned that the show is well past its prime right now. So there's that. But, again, RTD is back and Hugh did express affection for the role and a regret of not taking it back in the mid-2000s. It really could go either way. Unless, he's in talks for some other role in Doctor Who. For all we know, they may want him to play Rassilon or The Master in the 60th Anniversary special or something.
It's also why i've described the coming era as this generation's Cartmel era. It may work some last minute miracles, but not enough to boost the ratings to their prime.
Well you know for your generation who grew up with RTD era Who this could be a last hurrah for you guys. Obviously to guys like Rob, Uncle Deadly who hated RTD the first time round it won't matter either way LOL, but perhaps when rtd will just return to his old style, and to people who appreciated that it will be enjoyable even if it doesn't save the series and decades to come the attitude among fans will be "well at least it finished on a high." I've noticed that tends to happen for some long running series, they start out well, go on to have a hugely iconic mid period, tail off, and then recover, only to be axed. People are upset that they finished at first, but in decades to come think "well they had to end some time and at least it was when they were good." A good ending is important to how a show will be remembered. A lot of B7]s reputation rests on how well it ended, whilst for Game of Thrones the opposite is true. Really the best I'd say RTD can hope for is New Who having a decent ending. Maybe that's why he came back? To preserve his version after Chibbers? Series to follow the formula I described meanwhile include obviously classic DW which had aood start with Hartnell and the 60s, peak of quality and iconic status in the 70s, then it tails off in the 80s. I like the 80s to be clear this isn't about quality, just about how hard it was to stay on the air. From the start of the decade it was obvious the Beeb had fallen out of love with it. Eventually by Colin's second season, the quality of the show was affected by the behind the scenes drama and it reached a low point in S24, only to bounce back and produce some of its best stuff in 25 and 26 which helped preserve True Who's reputation among genre fans. With Buffy and Angel meanwhile it's exactly the same. Buffy season 1 is a great start to the show, then it goes through a period where it's a constantly high quality from Buffy s2-5 and the first two seasons of Angel too. However in Angel season 3 the show starts to dig itself in a hole with Connor, whilst S6 of Buffy is poor. S7 of Buffy is really poor, whilst s4 of Angel is atrocious. Fortunately however S5 of Angel is among the best they ever did, but sadly the show was axed after that season due to behind the scenes drama. Still again lots of fans of the franchise often say "well at least it finished when it was doing some of its best work." The original Godzilla series also went through this. Gets off to a great start, then goes through its iconic period that climaxes with Destroy all Monsters, and after that it tails off with the worst of the series like Godzilla's revenge only to bounce back with the last two Mechagodzilla films. (both of which are among the best entries.) Only to sadly finish after ironically the best Godzilla film after the first, Terror of Mechagodzilla. The Hammer movies also went through a period like this. Start out well with the original Dracula and Frankenstein movies, go through an iconic phase in he 60s, drop off in the early 70s with shit like Lust for a Vampire, Horror of Frankenstein, only to bounce back near the very end with classics like Satanic Rites, Captain Kronos Vampire Hunter, Vampire Circus and Legend, all of which were decades ahead of their time just before Hammer bowed out. So yes maybe New Who will go through something similar. I will say however RTD has a bigger task ahead of him. Chibbers shit f*cked up New Who more than S4 of Angel, S24 of True Who, and the worst, trashiest, most exploitative Hammer vampire film of the 70s. They were all bad, but they didn't rewrite the very DNA of the thing they were a part of. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds. |
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Post by henshin on Mar 21, 2022 22:39:45 GMT
I was fifteen when "Rose" premiered, I was a little past growing up there, boomer lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2022 22:42:14 GMT
Well Hugh Grant did reject the offer back in 2004 with the concern that the show could flop. If his agent is worth an ounce, i'm sure he would have been warned that the show is well past its prime right now. So there's that. But, again, RTD is back and Hugh did express affection for the role and a regret of not taking it back in the mid-2000s. It really could go either way. Unless, he's in talks for some other role in Doctor Who. For all we know, they may want him to play Rassilon or The Master in the 60th Anniversary special or something.
It's also why i've described the coming era as this generation's Cartmel era. It may work some last minute miracles, but not enough to boost the ratings to their prime.
Well you know for your generation who grew up with RTD era Who this could be a last hurrah for you guys. Obviously to guys like Rob, Uncle Deadly who hated RTD the first time round it won't matter either way LOL, but perhaps when rtd will just return to his old style, and to people who appreciated that it will be enjoyable even if it doesn't save the series and decades to come the attitude among fans will be "well at least it finished on a high." I've noticed that tends to happen for some long running series, they start out well, go on to have a hugely iconic mid period, tail off, and then recover, only to be axed. People are upset that they finished at first, but in decades to come think "well they had to end some time and at least it was when they were good." A good ending is important to how a show will be remembered. A lot of B7]s reputation rests on how well it ended, whilst for Game of Thrones the opposite is true. Really the best I'd say RTD can hope for is New Who having a decent ending. Maybe that's why he came back? To preserve his version after Chibbers? Series to follow the formula I described meanwhile include obviously classic DW which had aood start with Hartnell and the 60s, peak of quality and iconic status in the 70s, then it tails off in the 80s. I like the 80s to be clear this isn't about quality, just about how hard it was to stay on the air. From the start of the decade it was obvious the Beeb had fallen out of love with it. Eventually by Colin's second season, the quality of the show was affected by the behind the scenes drama and it reached a low point in S24, only to bounce back and produce some of its best stuff in 25 and 26 which helped preserve True Who's reputation among genre fans. With Buffy and Angel meanwhile it's exactly the same. Buffy season 1 is a great start to the show, then it goes through a period where it's a constantly high quality from Buffy s2-5 and the first two seasons of Angel too. However in Angel season 3 the show starts to dig itself in a hole with Connor, whilst S6 of Buffy is poor. S7 of Buffy is really poor, whilst s4 of Angel is atrocious. Fortunately however S5 of Angel is among the best they ever did, but sadly the show was axed after that season due to behind the scenes drama. Still again lots of fans of the franchise often say "well at least it finished when it was doing some of its best work." The original Godzilla series also went through this. Gets off to a great start, then goes through its iconic period that climaxes with Destroy all Monsters, and after that it tails off with the worst of the series like Godzilla's revenge only to bounce back with the last two Mechagodzilla films. (both of which are among the best entries.) Only to sadly finish after ironically the best Godzilla film after the first, Terror of Mechagodzilla. The Hammer movies also went through a period like this. Start out well with the original Dracula and Frankenstein movies, go through an iconic phase in he 60s, drop off in the early 70s with shit like Lust for a Vampire, Horror of Frankenstein, only to bounce back near the very end with classics like Satanic Rites, Captain Kronos Vampire Hunter, Vampire Circus and Legend, all of which were decades ahead of their time just before Hammer bowed out. So yes maybe New Who will go through something similar. I will say however RTD has a bigger task ahead of him. Chibbers shit fokked up New Who more than S4 of Angel, S24 of True Who, and the worst, trashiest, most exploitative Hammer vampire film of the 70s. They were all bad, but they didn't rewrite the very DNA of the thing they were a part of. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds. I still fail to see how Season 24 is a low point. It's more entertaining and creative than the Baker era. Season 23 is the real low point of the series. It annoys me that the BBC decided to let that air instead of letting the Tripods team make a third series. I'm sure the British audience would have rather watched an exciting conclusion to a great adventure story on their Saturday nights rather than two grown men throwing the most childish insults at each other in a crappy set for the best part of three months. At least Season 24 of Who is full of fun and unique ideas. I mean Bannermen would never have worked in any other season. They had literally a year to prepare for Season 23 and yet the scripts feel like left overs or even worse rejected scripts for other seasons. |
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Post by henshin on Mar 22, 2022 3:11:48 GMT
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 22, 2022 4:29:52 GMT
Fatheads twink it will be then.  |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 22, 2022 18:04:16 GMT
I was fifteen when "Rose" premiered, I was a little past growing up there, boomer lol I'm a millenial thank you! LOL I more just meant that was your/our generations introduction to Doctor Who. Not saying that is true for everyone. I became a DW fan in the 90s, when my parents introduced me to it on video. I know plenty of other people my age who were the same, and in 2002 a nation wide poll showed DW was the old show most people wanted to see come back. (With the majority of voters being millenials.) However that said whilst Classic Who obviously held up, RTD's DW would have introduced more people to it than video releases, for the simple reason that a modern, current show is always going to be more mainstream than something that's just out on video/DVD is old etc. As a result of this I think that people my generation have a soft spot for RTD regardless. Not saying that's the only reason they like it obvs, but it will be a major factor it perhaps gets more of a free pass than say even the Matt Smith era. Sure every era of DW will have been someone's first era, but never was their quite such a big push, again because it was the first in a while. With this in mind I was simply acknowledging that whilst a return to his style again wouldn't be a return to proper Who for the older fans, for those who were introduced to DW, they might think of it as being like an Angel season 5, McCoy era, a last hurrah. |
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Post by zarius on Mar 24, 2022 9:43:19 GMT
Bannermen probably could fit series 2 of Nu-Who. Same 'feel' and it sometimes does come across as something RTD would pen. |
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Post by iank on Mar 24, 2022 20:52:12 GMT
Oh come on, that's not fair. Delta's watchable.  |
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Post by mott1 on Mar 24, 2022 22:45:18 GMT
Another name that keeps coming up as a Jodie replacement is Danny Dyer, as he's leaving Eastenders!
Then again the Russell Tovey rumour is a convincing one, as RTD now thinks only gay men should play gay roles. Not sure if that means Tovey is secretly a Time Lord too...
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