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Post by Monster X on Jul 24, 2023 11:05:23 GMT
Apparently, according to a recent Radio Times article I saw mentioned on the internet, Ncuti Gatwa has now described Doctor Who as a series about "kindness and acceptance". This doesn't bode well. Of course, I admit I don't know yet how he is likely to play the role. I can't imagine he could be any worse than Jodie though so I do wish him well and even hope he can make a success of it. The problem is that I simply do not agree Who is about what he seems to think it is about. I suspect his attitude here is merely a reflection of the current agenda so typical of modern BBC. To me, Who is not really about kindness and acceptance. Rather, it is about menacing monsters and villains and eccentric but courageous heroes battling against the odds in fantastic adventures. It very much involves danger and humour and it's about the imagination of horror and science fiction concepts. It's about scientists and evil tyrants and certainly it is about good versus evil. It seems to me that the makers of the modern series continue to wilfully ignore just what the original series was actually about and just why it used to work so well. This is astonishing really especially considering that so many of them (RTD being an obvious example) profess to be fans of the original series yet repeatedly fail to replicate the essence of why the original series remains such a classic. Bingo. I see all of these people going on about the Doctor like he is leader of some 60s hippie cult, about how he embodies kindness and love and I'm thinking WHAT! PS I'm not making fun of these fans. There was one girl I knew, who was a big who fan, but had only seen the revival. She went on about how special DW was because it was the first sci fi show to embrace love. Now I cannot stress this enough. This girl was f*cking lovely as can be. She was one of the nicest human beings I have ever had the fortune to meet. She was a Ducky of Duckies. She doesn't have a bad atom in her body, never mind bone. If you met her you'd want to hug her she was so precious LOL. She also was NOT a fool either. Hell she had ten times the wisdom I'll ever have. Still again as much as I love her, I think it's funny to see how the generation raised on RTD's vision have such a distorted view of the character. The Doctor was actually quite a cynical, unlikely hero. He was selfish, arrogant, he absolutely was ruthless, he wasn't even really a hero, IE unlike Batman he wasn't on a mission to save the universe. He was kind of a waster LOL, who couldn't be arsed with a job on Gallifrey, so stole a time machine to live life on his own terms and stumbled into being a hero because underneath all his negative traits he was a good man. Still even then he had to be forced into being a hero many times even in the Tom Baker era like the Key to Time. That's what made him so refreshing growing up compared to the other American heroes like Buffy, Spider-Man and Captain Kirk and it could be both funny to see this guy who was a bit of an asshole, still be a hero underneath, yet also aided the horror and adventure as the Doctors ruthlessness could allow him to go on really dark adventures like Pyramids of Mars. Again and oldie but a goodie, but this really demonstrates what type of hero the classic Doctor was. PS I wish he hadn't used Eminem for that. Please everyone who watches it, mute the video and play these two songs. I f*cking HATE Eminem with a firey vengeance. I can't stand the idea of promoting him LOL. Those go so much better with DW. There are far Queen fans who are classic who fans than Eminem fans. Hell Freddie if he had been an actor, back in his 70s phase with long hair would have been a great Doctor.
Really well said, Burrunjor. This is something I strongly agree with, and I really can't put it any better than you and billpatjontom . Hartnell's Doctor in particular was an anti-hero ( especially in Season 1) and this is conveniently forgotten about. The First Dr was wise, kind and grandfatherly but also impatient, thoughtless, bad tempered and mischievous. We like that duality. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 11:45:43 GMT
He's right, though. Doctor Who is ultimately about kindness. I particularly love the kind act of the Doctor ruthlessly destroying the home world of his arch enemy in Remembrance of the Daleks. If you can't see the courtesy and politeness in that action then I'm afraid this show just ain't for you!
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Post by rushy on Jul 24, 2023 13:30:13 GMT
I don't agree with it in the slightest.
The Doctor isn't a charitable figure who escaped the suppression of his planet to go and be the best he can be. He's a cantankerous pariah who stole a vehicle to go wander around for shits and giggles. The only reason he's heroic is because he just happens to be the most competent person around, 99% of the time, and isn't a complete sociopath who would peace out in the middle of a crisis.
He's also completely irrelevant to the overall point of the show, which is to educate and entertain (leaning heavily on the latter side). The Doctor and the TARDIS are just the means by which the show introduces various situations. It's the context for why the companions are having interesting adventures.
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Post by rushy on Jul 24, 2023 13:36:06 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again: to understand Doctor Who, all you have to do is watch the Hartnell serials. That's the purest version of the show, and the most clearcut version of the character.
Now, obviously, the priorities and tone of the show changes over time and if I was strictly honest, I'd say there is no overall point or mission or meaning to it all. But if someone insists on inventing one, then they should look back to what it was doing in the beginning. Hartnell's Doctor was a heavily flawed but reasonable and intelligent man. His heroism was entirely down to just basic scruples. He feels like a real person, not a standard to look up to.
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Post by zarius on Jul 24, 2023 14:21:03 GMT
A few reddit posts with alleged spoilers for the 60th and the first Ncuti Christmas special. Take everything with a grain of salt. I've seen fans dismiss this as rubbish, but we've had much wilder things come true before -Donna's memories of The Doctor are restored, and she appears to die...but because she had a child, Rose Noble inherited some of the metacrisis energy so it doesn't kill her mother.
-Wild Blue Yonder is another story about a malfunctioning TARDIS it appears. Donna spills coffee on the console and things start to happen.
-The Giggle ends with the Fourteenth Doctor having a bi-generation which spins off Ncuti. Together, they defeat the Toymaker. Tennant's Doctor remains active and decides to settle down while Nctui explores the universe.
-The big guest star from 2005 RTD teased is Davina McCall, who was last appeared as a voice over in "Bad Wolf", but here she appears in person helping Ruby Sunday find out more about her birth parents...yeah, this is Davina's current big ratings hit on ITV, Long Lost Family.
-Ruby's foster mother is called Carla, she adopts a new baby daughter, Lulubelle, who's kidnapped by space Goblins, Ruby meets The Doctor and they rescue little Lulu, then the goblins temproarily remove Ruby from the timeline, The Doctor corrects this, then saves Davina |
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Post by Spark Doll King on Jul 24, 2023 16:56:16 GMT
A few reddit posts with alleged spoilers for the 60th and the first Ncuti Christmas special. Take everything with a grain of salt. I've seen fans dismiss this as rubbish, but we've had much wilder things come true before -Donna's memories of The Doctor are restored, and she appears to die...but because she had a child, Rose Noble inherited some of the metacrisis energy so it doesn't kill her mother.
-Wild Blue Yonder is another story about a malfunctioning TARDIS it appears. Donna spills coffee on the console and things start to happen.
-The Giggle ends with the Fourteenth Doctor having a bi-generation which spins off Ncuti. Together, they defeat the Toymaker. Tennant's Doctor remains active and decides to settle down while Nctui explores the universe.
-The big guest star from 2005 RTD teased is Davina McCall, who was last appeared as a voice over in "Bad Wolf", but here she appears in person helping Ruby Sunday find out more about her birth parents...yeah, this is Davina's current big ratings hit on ITV, Long Lost Family.
-Ruby's foster mother is called Carla, she adopts a new baby daughter, Lulubelle, who's kidnapped by space Goblins, Ruby meets The Doctor and they rescue little Lulu, then the goblins temproarily remove Ruby from the timeline, The Doctor corrects this, then saves Davina Grain of salt or not, sounds stupid enough to be true. Makes me even more justified in not watching this utter crap. It sounds like RTD, rather then trying to do anything new, is just going to give us more of his self indulgent fanwank like he did at the end of his original run only worse. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 24, 2023 17:11:48 GMT
A few reddit posts with alleged spoilers for the 60th and the first Ncuti Christmas special. Take everything with a grain of salt. I've seen fans dismiss this as rubbish, but we've had much wilder things come true before -Donna's memories of The Doctor are restored, and she appears to die...but because she had a child, Rose Noble inherited some of the metacrisis energy so it doesn't kill her mother.
-Wild Blue Yonder is another story about a malfunctioning TARDIS it appears. Donna spills coffee on the console and things start to happen.
-The Giggle ends with the Fourteenth Doctor having a bi-generation which spins off Ncuti. Together, they defeat the Toymaker. Tennant's Doctor remains active and decides to settle down while Nctui explores the universe.
-The big guest star from 2005 RTD teased is Davina McCall, who was last appeared as a voice over in "Bad Wolf", but here she appears in person helping Ruby Sunday find out more about her birth parents...yeah, this is Davina's current big ratings hit on ITV, Long Lost Family.
-Ruby's foster mother is called Carla, she adopts a new baby daughter, Lulubelle, who's kidnapped by space Goblins, Ruby meets The Doctor and they rescue little Lulu, then the goblins temproarily remove Ruby from the timeline, The Doctor corrects this, then saves Davina How reliable is the person who posted that? It honestly seems like it could be legit to me. |
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Post by iank on Jul 24, 2023 21:01:22 GMT
Dear God I hope that's a wind-up. No way am I coming back for that shite.
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Post by rushy on Jul 24, 2023 21:08:50 GMT
I'm not only gonna come back, but I'll probably count the "bi-regeneration" Tennant as the canon Doctor going forward XD
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 21:26:20 GMT
A few reddit posts with alleged spoilers for the 60th and the first Ncuti Christmas special. Take everything with a grain of salt. I've seen fans dismiss this as rubbish, but we've had much wilder things come true before -Donna's memories of The Doctor are restored, and she appears to die...but because she had a child, Rose Noble inherited some of the metacrisis energy so it doesn't kill her mother.
-Wild Blue Yonder is another story about a malfunctioning TARDIS it appears. Donna spills coffee on the console and things start to happen.
-The Giggle ends with the Fourteenth Doctor having a bi-generation which spins off Ncuti. Together, they defeat the Toymaker. Tennant's Doctor remains active and decides to settle down while Nctui explores the universe.
-The big guest star from 2005 RTD teased is Davina McCall, who was last appeared as a voice over in "Bad Wolf", but here she appears in person helping Ruby Sunday find out more about her birth parents...yeah, this is Davina's current big ratings hit on ITV, Long Lost Family.
-Ruby's foster mother is called Carla, she adopts a new baby daughter, Lulubelle, who's kidnapped by space Goblins, Ruby meets The Doctor and they rescue little Lulu, then the goblins temproarily remove Ruby from the timeline, The Doctor corrects this, then saves Davina Sounds like fan fiction so it's probably true. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 24, 2023 21:26:37 GMT
Dear God I hope that's a wind-up. No way am I coming back for that shite. Seriously? That sounds absolutely hilarious if it's true. At this stage I wasn't expecting anything good, so something that's hilariously stupid is a bonus. Honestly it's hilarious how regeneration has been effed up. All it was ever supposed to be was just a clever way of replacing the actor, letting the new actor be a bit creative with it, but still having it recognizably be the same character so the show didn't lost its identity completely. That was it! Straight forward and it worked for 26 years. These new writers however? They've had to add in that he actually dies and becomes a totally new person, that he changes sex, that he can regrow hands, "a fighteen haaaaand", The he can turn into animals, that he has an infinite number, that he can regenerate from just a head (this was in a Big Finish audio.) That he can blow up a Dalek fleet with it, that he can regenerate back that way, that he can create a clone, and now possibly that he turns into two completely different people, leaving us wondering which one is actually the Doctor we've been following for the past 60 years! It's quite funny that this one, straight forward thing to simply extend the shows life has been treated like this. It would be like if someone took over Superman and made it that his eye beams could also control time, control the weather, turn him into a pink unicorn, create universes, regrow limbs and that every time he used them he died and was replaced by an alternate counterpart so it's not the same Superman. |
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Post by rushy on Jul 24, 2023 22:36:34 GMT
These new writers however? They've had to add in that he actually dies and becomes a totally new person I love this interpretation so much more than any other the show's done. Not only is it more alien, but it also helps explain why the Doctor has mental issues for a while after - he's practically a newborn who gets a crapton of memories uploaded into his head and has to figure out his self-identity from scratch. This also adds a lot of fascinating context to multi-Doctor stories, and how the Doctor generally dismisses his past and future selves because they're not 'him'. Regeneration stories also matter so much more if he's actually dying in a sense. |
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Post by iank on Jul 24, 2023 23:15:14 GMT
It's f*cking retarded, dude.
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Post by rushy on Jul 24, 2023 23:39:03 GMT
It's f*cking retarded, dude. Why? If all his cells regenerate to the point of completely changing his physical appearance, then why is the brain any different? The whole concept is utter BS at face value anyway, might as well mine it for interesting drama. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 25, 2023 8:20:42 GMT
These new writers however? They've had to add in that he actually dies and becomes a totally new person I love this interpretation so much more than any other the show's done. Not only is it more alien, but it also helps explain why the Doctor has mental issues for a while after - he's practically a newborn who gets a crapton of memories uploaded into his head and has to figure out his self-identity from scratch. This also adds a lot of fascinating context to multi-Doctor stories, and how the Doctor generally dismisses his past and future selves because they're not 'him'. Regeneration stories also matter so much more if he's actually dying in a sense. I think it's awful for the following reasons. It defeats the entire point of regeneration. It was devised as a way to get rid of William Hartnell, but keep the character. There were other ways you could have got rid of Hartnell. IE they could have revealed that the Doctor is a title passed down to different men, and had the TARDIS get recalled after Hartnell died with a new Doctor taking over. That way the show would have been able to replace its leads to its heart content. Lot's of other shows have done this like Death in Paradise, but what made it special and unique was that we were following the same character. And I'm sorry but the argument that it creates greater drama is ridiculous, because A/ regeneration stories are depressing enough for the audience, particularly kids. You want them to accept the new boy and therefore having regeneration as a way of cheating death and it be hopeful that he's survived is obviously a better way to welcome him, rather than"sorry the character you liked is dying for good and this new guy is replacing him." B/ The Doctor being the same character creates greater drama in the long run, as it means you can build up stories and development over decades, which they did in regards to the Daleks, the Cybermen, the Brigadier, the Master etc. Survival is powerful because these guys have been fighting for centuries, the Brig and the Doctor meeting is cool if they are old friends, the later Dalek stories are constantly driven by the Doctors guilt over not killing them in Genesis. (Remembrance is essentially him trying to put things right in that respect, with the cafe scene in that story being a brilliant follow on and companion to the Have I the right scene in Genesis. Hell even the endings of Remembrance and Genesis are similar in a way that's quite interesting, but not derivative.) Again this is an advantage that DW has over other shows that change their leads. Death in Paradise had to abandon all the great development they'd built up with DI Poole and Camile over two seasons when Ben Miller left, Primeval had to abandon Helen Cutter the main villain when Dougie left because without him she didn't have much of a purpose and also his love interest Jenny Lewis/Claudia Brown which also left that story completely unfinished (this is probably the worst story in the show as a result for that reason. Google whatever happened to Claudia Brown and you'll find dozens of results. I remember Claudia Boleyn saying she used to watch and enjoy Primeval but that always annoyed her that they never resolved that, and well they couldn't without Dougie.) B7 meanwhile had to kill of Travis without Blake too. DW arguably endured past so many leads because people felt it was the same story and were willing to watching when their doctor vanished and unlike those other shows it could gradually slide its way into the new formula. IE Pertwee to Tom doesn't abandon UNIT right away. It slowly fades them out, Sarah is there for one season with Jon, the Daleks, Pertwee's big enemies appear in Tom's first story all allowing both eras to flow into each other, similarly the Hartnell era fades into the Troughton era, IE Troughton's first season still has Hartnell's last two companions, the Daleks, his most recurring foes, a historical, whilst the Cybermen are introduced in Hartnell's last story all of which makes it a lot smoother than other changes. The biggest they came to a clean break was Troughton to Pertwee, but even then they still arguably flow into each other as we had the Brig being introduced in Troughton's time and the Pertwee era is basically a sequel to the War Games with the Doctor being exiled in the last Troughton story. All of that is lost if they are different people and what for? So the Doctor can be a bit mopier in his last story. Honestly the worst stories for me are the ones that make a big deal of regeneration. Planet of the Spiders is awful and the last scene with the Doctor and Sarah is one of the most mawkish and cheesy things in DW "don't dieeeee" and the Twin Dilemma is legendarily shit because it has the Doctor go crazy. Power of the Daleks and Spearhead from Space, Castrovalva and even in New Who, the 11th hour that just treat it as something the Doctor goes through and he's maybe a bit funny at first, but then gets down to it are the best. Also from a practical view that's just not how the Doctor has been written for 26 years. IE all of the Doctors made a clear distinction between death and regeneration. Troughton says he would have never survived without the TARDIS helping his regeneration, he wasn't bothered when they told him how he could choose his new face, Pertwee told Sarah not to be upset, Davison was scared he wouldn't regenerate stating "is this death." Meanwhile the Master and Borusa's plans to gain more regenerations because they are scared of dying make 0 sense now if they die anyway. Why wouldn't they always just choose to body swap? Also again dozens and dozens and dozens of stories that are written as the Doctor being the same guy are now nonsensical like every Dalek story with a new Doctor, every Brigadier story, every Master story (why does Anthony Ainley have such a beef with Sylvester McCoy? He's never met him before? The Cyber Leader says he must be made to suffer for past defeats? All of his companions who witness him regenerate? Clearly the general consensus was that the Doctors were the same people among fans, writers and the audience for decades. If they wanted them to be different, ti would have been more ambigous, but it's never been that way. (Again this was why a female Doctor was so utterly hated. If they were all different people, no one would have given a shit.) Now having said that if you wanted to do an alternate sequel or a reboot with that idea, then that's fine. It might work in those circumstances, which again is why I am always pushing for a DW multiverse and reboots and classic who being left alone unless it's by someone who genuinely loves it and wants to carry it on properly. However trying to rewrite it after 26 years just so your lead can be a bit mopey, is why Ten Inch's exit was hugely unpopular. |
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