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Post by burrunjor on May 21, 2024 10:04:55 GMT
Lmao I even got upvotes for pointing out that young boys don't want to watch a middle-aged woman or a foppish gay guy in the lead role This on the reddit page? My how times have changed. Meanwhile I LOVE middle aged women. I don't just mean that way (though women in their 40s and 50s are usually the most beautiful to me.) I've always got on so well with middle aged women at work. They can make the best duckys. I'd love to see a show about a middle aged women. In fact I'm watching one right now. My Life is Murder starring Lucy Lawless. It's f*cking amazing by the way. I don't normally go for crime shows, but obviously I decided to check this one out because of who was in it and I'm glad I did. Her character isn't like Xena at all, but she's hilarious. Such a complete sarcastic bitch, but in a lovable way, like the way Jon Pertwee was an arrogant shit but you liked him all the same. I can't wait for the one with William Shatner. Honestly him and Lucy Lawless in the one episode is probably going to be a masterclass of ham acting haha. From one ham to another. Also as I said before my favourite character in the last two seasons of The Flash was Kramer. I'd watch anything her actress was the lead in, as she was such an awesome, sexy badass.  Again she's another one that suits having a more mature look. Still that said when it comes to DW no I don't want to watch a middle aged woman as the lead for the simple reason that the Doctor isn't a middle aged woman LOL. Why did these redditors not grasp that simple concept when it came to gay leads, female leads etc, that it was never about not wanting them in general, just that the Doctor had his own identity. Only now are they finally getting to where I was in 2013. Bravo boys maybe next time don't wait ten years until your favourite series has been completely ravaged beyond repair to notice that things like key characterisation and not selling out are important. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2024 10:11:57 GMT
Well I guess a middle-aged woman could be attractive to teen boys, but Jodie plays it like a mum at parents' evening. There's no gravitas or sexuality, it's barren.
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Post by burrunjor on May 21, 2024 10:39:43 GMT
I'm in my 30s but I do have the maturity of a teenager so I can see why you'd think that I was one LOL. When I was teen however I was still all about middle aged women like Katey Sagal and Alti from Xena and Famke Janssen.
That said I don't have to want to shag the character in order to enjoy it LOL. I mean Lucy Lawless' character in My Life is Murder whilst she's obviously attractive, isn't presented as sexy. She's fairly neutral in her persona and dress.
The only episode where they made use of her sex appeal was the first one, but other than that, it's never a part of the plot.
The problems with Jodie where
1/ She wasn't unusual or distinctive enough. She's a soap actress, or one who appears in bland, boring, interchangeable oop north, a kid's just been killed, dreary, seaside town crime drama, of which there are f*cking billions of on tv today. The female counterpart to the Doctor should be a crazy character actress with a slightly more unusual look, like again Morgana Robinson who plays outrageous, over the top comedy characters and is a lot taller than the average woman and has a ridiculously posh voice.
2/ She had 0 idea of the characters history and was arrogant enough to dismiss her predecessors as just men.
3/ She more than anyone struggled with the gender change hilariously enough. Again she said she couldn't take anything from the Doctors character as it was just a man, (her words not mine) but she clearly couldn't be as feminine as she wanted, as then it would have jarred, and she couldn't exactly have been a Ziggy Stardust type as that would have jarred, so yeah she just played it on auto pilot in a generic "I'm kooky" way.
4/ On top of that she also could not do kooky or eccentric. She struggled really badly and it was so forced and over done like her Arnold Rimmer expressions, picking her nose or actually saying she's socially awkward. Unlike Tom who is naturally eccentric, or Hartnell and Pertwee who could make it seem flawless by being so rude and dickish LOL. Jodie came over as "Eiiiiii I'm right mad I am."
5/ The writing for her era was hilariously out of touch and lagged behind compared to other female characters and LGBT characters, which were supposed to be her main audience. The idea that her mamby pamby approach was going to rival other shows in terms of female empowerment, or that her non existent romance with Yaz was going to be groundbreaking where laughable. Twenty years earlier we had Xena defeat her archfoe after being inspired by the love of her girlfriend. Yaz and Jodie meanwhile share an ice cream together. WOW keep smashing those glass ceilings Jodie.
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on May 21, 2024 11:00:36 GMT
I assume they were afraid to make Jodie even the slightest bit sexy because they didn't want straight men showing interest in a female character that way. It's a bit silly to think that you can't be hot and also a great female character at the same time. Jodie is nice away from the show, but they made her look like a nursery teacher in Who.
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on May 21, 2024 11:03:11 GMT
Ncuti will have more "sexy" moments than Jodie. I remember a bunch of people drooling all over him when he was cast but when I saw someone on YouTube call Ruby "hot" he was labelled as an incel. Are men even allowed to be attracted to female characters anymore?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2024 11:04:53 GMT
They might as well have spayed her. The bowl Karen haircut, the ridiculous rainbow tee, the coat which looked like a space-age hospital gown. Everything about her costuming was part of a bid to desex her as thoroughly as possible.
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Post by burrunjor on May 21, 2024 12:09:55 GMT
I assume they were afraid to make Jodie even the slightest bit sexy because they didn't want straight men showing interest in a female character that way. It's a bit silly to think that you can't be hot and also a great female character at the same time. Jodie is nice away from the show, but they made her look like a nursery teacher in Who. To be honest I don't mind them making the female Doctor not sexy. I mean I'll admit my top choice for a female Doctor, Morgana Robinson is one of the sexiest women of all time LOL.  Like Lucy Lawless, Lana Parrilla, Claire Stansfield, Famke Janssen she is a classic example of how hammy women are often the sexiest. (She can outham Matt Berry, that's how hammy Morgana is and f*ck me is it sexy.) Still that said, I'm all for a non sexualized female character like Miss Marple. After all that was what the Doctor was supposed to be. I do agree with you, Iank and Yak though that there absolutely is a double standard within the world of DW against straight men when it comes to appreciating eye candy. The way that straight male fans get shamed for fancying the female companions, told that we are being sexists that way, shallow bastards, are creepy etc. Yet RTD said the only way women would watch DW was if the Doctor was turned into a sex god. (RTD's words not mine.) RTD also pushed the idea of a professorial, grandfatherly character like the Doctor as being an uncool, posh, neutered school boy that could never win round audiences because he wasn't sexy. A sentiment that pretty much all of the fandom agreed with. Imagine if I did the same thing in reverse. I took over Miss Marple and cast one of my babes like Morgana, big Fam or that chick who was Kramer in the Flash and I dolled and sexualized her to the hilt, and had her get off with a young man (who was my author avatar the way Rose was for RTD.) And I said we need to do that to get men watching, shame the old Miss Marple as a sexless, boring old bore because men couldn't wank to her, and then flipped it on its head when some female fans rightfully said that wasn't true to Miss Marple's character, by shaming them as fat, ugly, man hating, pathetic cat lady's that resent sexy women because no man has ever touched them? Shameful double standard, though to be clear I'm not saying that all or most double standards are directed against men in society. It's annoying I have to say this, but in today's climate you get so many red pillers pushing the idea that women hate accountability so just to be clear I'm NOT that. Different double standards exist for men and women in different areas of society. There certainly are double standards against female sexuality in other ways, like the slut/stud double standard. Again old news for me, but Amy Winehouse was definitely a victim of that, being called a crack whore for instance by mainstream outlets. Can you imagine anyone calling Jim Morrison a crack jiggilo? Is crack jiggilo even a phrase LOL. Still fittingly in the world of DW fandom, the double standard absolutely exists against straight men. Funny thing is though it was created by men, specifically the Fitzroy Crowd themselves who are the biggest little boys club I've ever seen in my life. Again though I honestly think that they and sadly a lot of male sci fi fans are scared of women. I don't mean that in the nasty "you're an incel" kind of a way. It's the reverse in fact. They are so scared of being seen as incels, woman haters they pander to women and in the Fitzroy's case because they have such a limited, old fashioned view of women, their attempts to pander are overt and clumsy, though as seen with Claudia Boleyn they're not above silencing women they don't think they can appease either. |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on May 21, 2024 12:18:46 GMT
I assume they were afraid to make Jodie even the slightest bit sexy because they didn't want straight men showing interest in a female character that way. It's a bit silly to think that you can't be hot and also a great female character at the same time. Jodie is nice away from the show, but they made her look like a nursery teacher in Who. To be honest I don't mind them making the female Doctor not sexy. I mean I'll admit my top choice for a female Doctor, Morgana Robinson is one of the sexiest women of all time LOL. Like Lucy Lawless, Lana Parrilla, Claire Stansfield, Famke Janssen she is a classic example of how hammy women are often the sexiest. (She can outham Matt Berry, that's how hammy Morgana is and f*ck me is it sexy.) Still that said, I'm all for a non sexualized female character like Miss Marple. After all that was what the Doctor was supposed to be. I do agree with you, Iank and Yak though that there absolutely is a double standard within the world of DW against straight men when it comes to appreciating eye candy. The way that straight male fans get shamed for fancying the female companions, told that we are being sexists that way, shallow bastards, are creepy etc. Yet RTD said the only way women would watch DW was if the Doctor was turned into a sex god. (RTD's words not mine.) RTD also pushed the idea of a professorial, grandfatherly character like the Doctor as being an uncool, posh, neutered school boy that could never win round audiences because he wasn't sexy. A sentiment that pretty much all of the fandom agreed with. Imagine if I did the same thing in reverse. I took over Miss Marple and cast one of my babes like Morgana, big Fam or that chick who was Kramer in the Flash and I dolled and sexualized her to the hilt, and had her get off with a young man (who was my author avatar the way Rose was for RTD.) And I said we need to do that to get men watching, shame the old Miss Marple as a sexless, boring old bore because men couldn't wank to her, and then flipped it on its head when some female fans rightfully said that wasn't true to Miss Marple's character, by shaming them as fat, ugly, man hating, pathetic cat lady's that resent sexy women because no man has ever touched them? Shameful double standard, though to be clear I'm not saying that all or most double standards are directed against men in society. It's annoying I have to say this, but in today's climate you get so many red pillers pushing the idea that women hate accountability so just to be clear I'm NOT that. Different double standards exist for men and women in different areas of society. There certainly are double standards against female sexuality in other ways, like the slut/stud double standard. Again old news for me, but Amy Winehouse was definitely a victim of that, being called a crack whore for instance by mainstream outlets. Can you imagine anyone calling Jim Morrison a crack jiggilo? Is crack jiggilo even a phrase LOL. Still fittingly in the world of DW fandom, the double standard absolutely exists against straight men. Funny thing is though it was created by men, specifically the Fitzroy Crowd themselves who are the biggest little boys club I've ever seen in my life. Again though I honestly think that they and sadly a lot of male sci fi fans are scared of women. I don't mean that in the nasty "you're an incel" kind of a way. It's the reverse in fact. They are so scared of being seen as incels, woman haters they pander to women and in the Fitzroy's case because they have such a limited, old fashioned view of women, their attempts to pander are overt and clumsy, though as seen with Claudia Boleyn they're not above silencing women they don't think they can appease either. That's what bothers me. It probably is stupid, but I feel like I'm not supposed to find any woman in NuWho attractive (I do anyway so nice try) and fans are quick to call you up on "sexism" if you happen to like Amy's legs or something. Then there's the other side that go on about how hot Tennant was in the role. Even Millie Gibson said Smith was "so hot" on Twitter. Can you imagine if a new male companion said that about Jodie? |
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Post by ClockworkOcean on May 21, 2024 15:12:28 GMT
Straight male sexuality is hysterically demonised and pathologised to an absurd degree while every other demographic is given free rein to flaunt their kinks and fetishes in public to the point of vulgarity with no consideration for anyone else.
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Post by burrunjor on May 21, 2024 16:18:48 GMT
Straight male sexuality is hysterically demonised and pathologised to an absurd degree while every other demographic is given free rein to flaunt their kinks and fetishes in public to the point of vulgarity with no consideration for anyone else. Not always. Like I said Amy Winehouse was slandered as a crack whore for dressing provocatively, whilst Jim Morrison shagged his way through groupies and was seen as hot and rebellious. Can you imagine Jim Morrison getting a tenth of the abuse she got? Or Kurt Cobain? Or Ozzy Osborne? Or Freddie Mercury? Hell look at this review for Amy's god daughter Dionne Bromfield's debut album. It's supposed to be a review of an album of covers and it doesn't even resemble a review, just a rant at how much he hates Amy and it wasn't even her album. The writer of this article meanwhile cited partying with Freddie Mercury as one of the best days of his life. That would be Freddie whose sexual conquests were legendary and who had parties where drugs were handed out by waiters like biscuits at normal parties. www.theguardian.com/p/2bvz7?CMP=gu_comAt the same time oh dear god is twitter and social media filled with these ghastly red pilled men who go on about how women just want to ride the chad cock in their 20s and 30s until they hit the wall, after which all the good men are gone and she will then be destined to live a life of loneliness with her cats. Disgusting phrases like hit the wall, been run through too many times, high body count are rife among these red pillers. Pretty much any woman struggling with loneliness in her 30s is smeared as a whore who rejected the good men by large sections of society. This video here of this woman crying about how lonely she feels and how she just wants friends on tik tok went viral recently and dear god were 99 percent of the responses all about how she must have slept around, she rejected nice guys for too long etc. Personally I don't think she should have done this video for the record. It's sad but people are mean, and it's best not to put yourself in that situation, but still to be fair to her she had probably just reached the end of her tether and I've had moments like this when I've been depressed. x.com/i/status/1792241786393334127I admit I'm white knighting a little as she is gorgeous LOL, but nobody knows anything about her and to just assume she's a slut and then condemn her for it is awful. I think it's fair to say that women who sleep around in many, many ways are still viewed in an even more negative way than men who do so. Again though it must be said, that hilariously enough, a lot of these double standards against women come from other women, same way it's white knights who demonise other men. Part of why I never got on board with Adele was her obnoxious statements about being automatically better than female singers who don't dance around and use their looks, though obviously the red pill stuff comes from men. Again just to be clear I'm not saying you or anyone here is one of those awful red pill men, I just think it's important to always put both sides of the argument forward which probably makes me intensely annoying but also fair, I hope. Meanwhile I DO agree that the sci fi fandom has a double standard against male sexuality, as sci fi fandom is sadly run by elitist, upper middle class men, who are all in little boys only clubs, and project their own insecurities about that, and being smeared as women hating losers onto the rest of us. That said though even then some female fandoms get smeared for being shallow and only liking something because they fancy the man. Look at Twilight fandom for instance? Hilariously one of the worst people attacking the Twilight fandom was Mr Tardis who said that only idiots like it. (PS he has a cheek as what else was the 9th Doctors era but f*cking Twilight in space?) |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2024 23:12:05 GMT
The absolute funniest shit I neglected to mention was during the final musical sequence in The Devil's Chord. Did you see the 2 or 3 people in wheelchairs just bopping along at the side? I was f*cking pissing myself. Why are they there? They're not part of the orchestra, they're not part of the dance troupe, because newsflash: people in wheelchairs can't dance. So what's their purpose? Oh, because RTD has to fulfil a quota. It's these little things that completely take me out of it. Why not have the composer at the beginning be wheelchair-bound? That would have fit his character more and it wouldn't have broken the immersion at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2024 10:54:59 GMT
The absolute sycophants with their tongues up Moffat's fat crack piss me off much more than RTD's posturing. There are hundreds of 10/10 reviews on IMDb that you have to trawl through to get to the truthful ones. Before Chibnall, Moffat was the one who ruined Doctor Who for me. He produced one okayish season and five awful ones. I guess he has some kind of hypnotic power over hipsters which is why this is happening. What a load of pretentious wankers. Robert Holmes could scribble some bullshit about toothpicks on the back of a napkin and it'd be more poetic than Moffat's "snow isn't snow until it falls" self-congratulatory crap.
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Post by burrunjor on May 23, 2024 12:53:02 GMT
The absolute sycophants with their tongues up Moffat's fat crack piss me off much more than RTD's posturing. There are hundreds of 10/10 reviews on IMDb that you have to trawl through to get to the truthful ones. Before Chibnall, Moffat was the one who ruined Doctor Who for me. He produced one okayish season and five awful ones. I guess he has some kind of hypnotic power over hipsters which is why this is happening. What a load of pretentious wankers. Robert Holmes could scribble some bullshit about toothpicks on the back of a napkin and it'd be more poetic than Moffat's "snow isn't snow until it falls" self-congratulatory crap. I completely agree. It really f*cking annoys me the extent at which Moffat gets away with it. He was the one that actually ruined Doctor Who. Davies first run wasn't that faithful, it did focus on the soap opera more than the sci fi at times, and yes the references to popular culture were tedious. (Uncle Deadly's heat magazine comments were apt.) However it must be said that they didn't damage the show beyond all repair. Matt Smith was still able to get us back to something resembling the classic era Doctor in terms of his look, his core character and his alienness after Davies. Okay yes he still suffered from some New Whoisms like lusting after his companions arse, but overall he was a step in the right direction. He helped bridge the gap between the old and the new fans. Peter Capaldi meanwhile was on paper a proper old school Doctor and with Gallifrey back after the 50th and love for Classic Who at an all time high thanks to the 50th, all Moffat had to do was give him proper stories, ignore the people calling him sexist and just move on. In time the changes in the Doctors character in the RTD era could just be viewed as the Doctor going mad at being the last of his kind. Even then if the push for a female Doctor was so great, Moffat could have easily just brought Romana back, established her to the new audience and given her the spin off instead. Sadly Moffat did the reverse and unlike Davies, his changes could not be ignored or fixed by his successor. Whilst the next prick who came along after Moff was happy to go along with them anyway, had it been someone competent they still would have had a nigh impossible task of putting it right after the Capaldi era. First of all Missy. I know that is my white whale LOL, but it's true that once he did that the chances of the next Doctor being a woman went from 50 percent to 100 percent. Also it set a bad precedent where an icon's history could rewritten. Unlike the Time Lords becoming evil in The End of Time, or even a stupid retcon like the drums that was just ignored. Thanks to Missy we started to get crap about how that was always canon that the Doctor and the Master were in love, Big Finish stories having the Burned Master of all incarnations being jealous of River Song, and shit about how time lords were always gender bending aliens because of Sydney Newman. Moffat unlike Davies linked controversial changes to political movements, which as we know set a bad precedent and ripped the fandom apart. Also Moffat was the one responsible for the show becoming obsessed with the current thing such as his obnoxious Trump remarks and he absolutely courted the obnoxious millennial, progressive fans. He gave interviews to Crystal Dee, other members of his team propped up and supported fans like Whovian Feminism (who funnily enough has written about DW in 6 years.) He was also responsible for writing some of the absolute worst, most cringe inducing examples of identity politics in the history of the show. This bit here I think is actually more cringe inducing than anything in Jodie's time. I mean the Timeless Children is obviously more destructive, but in terms of sheer cringe. This has yet to be topped. Whilst Moffat may have had some pressure from above, he could have fought for the show he claimed to love. Look what Henry Cavill did for the Witcher? He could have found ways round it. Instead he arguably did it the worst way possible, like Missy who wasn't just a female Master, but in love with the Doctor. Then there is his shameful treatment of the Hartnell era Doctor too. Really he lucked out that the two after were worse, but even then they could only do the shit they've done thanks to his changes. He sold out big time and f*cked us over. I don't have anything against him personally, but his role in driving it into the ground should never be overlooked. He started EVERYTHING we are drowning in now. To be honest whilst he might be an arsehole, RTD's role is still the least. As awful as his new era is, really who cared at this stage after Jodie, Missy, Timeless Children about the revival being any good. RTD was just kicking a corpse. What Steven Moffat had done before he wrote series 8. I hear Mr Tardis also had this done circa 2017. That's the only way he could have written the above segment. The only way any person could. |
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Post by iank on May 23, 2024 21:32:51 GMT
Nah, sorry, Davies started everything we're drowning in now. I know Yak wants to excuse him for his childhood nostalgia, but he was writing the character of the Doctor out of existence from episode 1. Moffat was the only one even attempting to fight against that, which is why his two Doctors are the only ones even vaguely recognisable as the same character.
Everything about New Who was wrong from the start - the format, the bastardisation of the lead, the emphasis on the companion more than the Doctor, the soppy shit...
I don't in any way excuse Moffat but if I had a gun to my head I'd still rather watch one of his eps, if only for the leads, than any of Davies' dumbed down drivel with the gurning cockney lothario.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2024 22:00:51 GMT
At least the RTD era was kinda cool and current, season 1 especially with the hints of techno and trance in its soundtrack and the pisstake of the Blair establishment and even a risque reference to 9/11 being an inside job. The Moffat stuff was so lame and out of touch in comparison.
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