Now that New Who has been cancelled

[burrunjor]

Do you think that the people who sneered at and banned us from sites like Anoraks and GB will admit they were wrong?

Not to us obviously. Sandifier would tell me to kill myself first. Still how long can they keep up the facade? They can't possibly blame the Bowelstrek's and Nerdrotics for its failure considering they were the ones trying to warn them. 

How can guys like Jon Blum possibly spin it now? Not just for the last few years, but all of New Who. It lasted half as long as the original, and even then that's pushing it. Added to that, it struggled badly for 7 of those thirteen years. 

The self loathing fanboys have lost their main argument of "well we are so much more successful than the classic era so it has to go this way." 

What can they possibly say now?

[mott1]

Sept 1, 2021 14:26:44 GMT burrunjor said:

Do you think that the people who sneered at and banned us from sites like Anoraks and GB will admit they were wrong?

Not to us obviously. Sandifier would tell me to kill myself first. Still how long can they keep up the facade? They can't possibly blame the Bowelstrek's and Nerdrotics for its failure considering they were the ones trying to warn them. 

How can guys like Jon Blum possibly spin it now? Not just for the last few years, but all of New Who. It lasted half as long as the original, and even then that's pushing it. Added to that, it struggled badly for 7 of those thirteen years. 

The self loathing fanboys have lost their main argument of "well we are so much more successful than the classic era so it has to go this way." 

What can they possibly say now?

Has it been cancelled...?

[burrunjor]

Sept 1, 2021 17:34:50 GMT mott1 said:

Sept 1, 2021 14:26:44 GMT burrunjor said:

Do you think that the people who sneered at and banned us from sites like Anoraks and GB will admit they were wrong?

Not to us obviously. Sandifier would tell me to kill myself first. Still how long can they keep up the facade? They can't possibly blame the Bowelstrek's and Nerdrotics for its failure considering they were the ones trying to warn them. 

How can guys like Jon Blum possibly spin it now? Not just for the last few years, but all of New Who. It lasted half as long as the original, and even then that's pushing it. Added to that, it struggled badly for 7 of those thirteen years. 

The self loathing fanboys have lost their main argument of "well we are so much more successful than the classic era so it has to go this way." 

What can they possibly say now?

Has it been cancelled...?

Yep.

No plans beyond 2022. It's dead in the water now. Of course they tried to cushion it with "there are big changes ahead" which is all the media keep reporting. 

They said the same thing when McCoy got axed. "We don't have any immediate plans for DW, but we are excited at the new possibilities for the show in the new decade, the changing landscape etc." All bullshit. 

I'm sure Jon Blum is busy shouting "IT WAS A SUCCESSSS!" Whilst that c*nt Culfy is trying to work up some other stupid parody of the not my Doctor crowd. (He is totally impartial and not a total coward.) 

Still to anyone with any sense it's dead. 

[ClockworkOcean]

Speaking at this year's festival, the BBC's Director of Drama, Piers Wenger was asked if he had a plan for the future of the series beyond 2022. He responded: "No, I don't. As with any change in Doctor and showrunner, it will be ambitious and radical. We will have to look at the TV landscape in which it will play. So, change is ahead!"

It certainly sounds a lot like 1989. Another thing to consider is that Moffat was announced as showrunner in 2008 and Chibnall in early 2016. Both previous transitions have been planned several years in advance. To be less than a year away from Chibnall's departure with nothing announced and "no plan"... it's looking more hopeful than ever that the end is finally upon us.

I'm just worried about what's going to happen to Big Finish after this. Surely Briggs realises that his customers would walk away in droves if he started shoehorning Chibnall's bullshit into the classic series audios? Even a sizeable portion of the non-woke NuWho fans currently enjoying the Eccleston/Tennant stories wouldn't stand for it.

[burrunjor]

Sept 2, 2021 11:51:23 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

Speaking at this year's festival, the BBC's Director of Drama, Piers Wenger was asked if he had a plan for the future of the series beyond 2022. He responded: "No, I don't. As with any change in Doctor and showrunner, it will be ambitious and radical. We will have to look at the TV landscape in which it will play. So, change is ahead!"

It certainly sounds a lot like 1989. Another thing to consider is that Moffat was announced as showrunner in 2008 and Chibnall in early 2016. Both previous transitions have been planned several years in advance. To be less than a year away from Chibnall's departure with nothing announced and "no plan"... it's looking more hopeful than ever that the end is finally upon us.

I'm just worried about what's going to happen to Big Finish after this. Surely Briggs realises that his customers would walk away in droves if he started shoehorning Chibnall's bullshit into the classic series audios? Even a sizeable portion of the non-woke NuWho fans currently enjoying the Eccleston/Tennant stories wouldn't stand for it.

Big Finish deserve a major backlash to be honest. I don't even just mean Nick Briggs. Even I hate to say a lot of the classic era actors for selling out their fans, blindly praising the revival and trashing their own version because they thought it made them popular with a bunch of millenial twats. 

Katy Manning didn't need to write a review praising Cyber Brig and Pissy Missy as brilliant tributes to Nick Courtney and Roger Delgado and lie and say they'd love them. (As if! Can you imagine what Jon Pertwee would have thought of Missy? He'd have wished he had real Venusian Karate to prevent Moffat from writing anything ever again.) 

Louise Jameson didn't need to say shit like "Robert Holmes could have been the RTD of his day." Janet Fielding didn't need to smear all critics of a female Doctor as pathetic sexist manbaby losers hiding in their mothers basements and constantly slag off the man who gave her her career, JNT in order to beef up the new series twats. Colin Baker certainly shouldn't have thrown his own fans, William Hartnell and Peter Davison under the bus to kiss up to ironically the very wanker who kicked his era into the dirt on tv. (Chris Chibnall.)

Even now Philip Hinchcliff ffs still doesn't get it and actually tries to beef up the stupid "DW has no canon" crap and compare the Morbius Doctors to Chinballs bullshit. 

I know that none of these people genuinely think that, as they all said completely different things before this shit came along. They all to some extent sold out because they had NO confidence in themselves and thought that the only way they'd get the young fans was by kissing the arse of New Who. 

Obviously I don't hate them LOL, but really this was always going to be the end result. Now ironically their series is less likely to make younger fans by being associated with a cringe inducing, hateful, insular fandom whilst the show itself is an actual joke now. 

Yeah before it was a joke to Michael Grade and other twats at the BBC and stupid, arseholes in the media and panel show comedians, but among the general public it was either remembered fondly, or they were indifferent to it. It was meanwhile hugely respected among sci fi fans and people in the industry like Peter Jackson and Spielberg. 

Now however they are in for a much tougher wilderness years ahead and again deservedly so. Lesson here is. Don't sell out and betray people who have stuck with you, and try and be accepted among shallow media twats. Sadly I would have thought that was obvious, but evidently not. 

[iank]

I'm only concerned about the knock-on effect on the animations, which I want as many of as possible.

[Bernard Marx]

Sept 2, 2021 21:14:38 GMT iank said:

I'm only concerned about the knock-on effect on the animations, which I want as many of as possible.

Yeah, me too. I'm hoping it won't have too much of an influence, but who's to say? Given that the majority of people who buy the animations are guaranteed to continue to do so anyway, there shouldn't be too much of a financial issue there, but I hope enthusiasm for them doesn't dip. I want to see an animated Daleks' Masterplan, and a competently made one too.

Having said that, one of the best things about Chibnall era Who (as much as it pains me to EVER construct such a sentence) is that it's reignited interest in previous eras of the programme on the grounds of the current era alienating the bulk of its fanbase, and therefore prompting some to seek out what went before in order to ascertain their fix. So I'm hoping the classic series will just live on as its own entity. It's more financially successful when it comes to DVD sales as it is.

[iank]

The problem is that the animations are being co-financed by BBC America, and if Who as a whole goes back to being niche again, they may not continue to stump up the dosh. But I hope that's not the case.

[ClockworkOcean]

What I'm wondering is whether market forces might push what remains of Doctor Who in a healthier direction once NuWho is dead and buried. The SJW "fans" will quickly move on and find something else to destroy, leaving the reissues, audios, animations, novels, etc. more dependent on the hardcore fans than at any point since 2005.

The commercial, non-license-fee-funded parts of the series already cater to the real fans more than NuWho ever has because they have no choice. Big Finish provide reversible covers with no trace of the Chibnall logo because they know that there are enough stubborn bastards like me within their niche audience who wouldn't pay for their products unless they did.

I'd be a reliable customer for the blu-rays, animations and projects like Scratchman if Chibnall's faeces weren't smeared all over them, and I'm far from the only one boycotting them over this. There are even a lot of non-woke NuWho fans who'd be enthusiastically supporting the Time Lord Victorious stuff right now if not for it being littered with Chibnall references. Once the Twitter mob has buggered off, how long will BBC Studios, Big Finish, etc. be able to continue pissing off a considerable portion of the diminished audience they'll have left? Will they really choose to die on this hill?

[Bernard Marx]

Sept 2, 2021 22:32:59 GMT iank said:

The problem is that the animations are being co-financed by BBC America, and if Who as a whole goes back to being niche again, they may not continue to stump up the dosh. But I hope that's not the case.

Very true, although I hear that it's basically niche there anyway, given how dire the ratings were there last season (it got under a million views in America for the bulk of its run, if not all of it).

[Deleted]

All I’ll say is don’t get your hopes to high. In our current times the people in charge of companies seem dead set on tanking their franchises. The comic book industry is in free fall, has been for years, and is do bad that many comic shops have gone bust even befor the pandemic. It’s for the same reasons as nuwho but everyone is dead set pushing this camel till it’s back breaks. In fact Japanese Manga has been outselling comics for some time now yet the companies just keep dubbling down.

The core root of the problem is ideology twisted into almost religious doctrine. None is will in to backdown on this or even have reasonable discussions because they cannot. As with a religious fanatic, they cannot even allow themselves to think forbidden thoughts, cannot give ground because they ARE in the moral right and must deny all things that contradict their views. While Doctor who has hit the money wall I new it would, the sad truth is that none in charge is going to learn from this, they’d rather the franchise die under their reign then admit that it’s shit.

[burrunjor]

Sept 2, 2021 22:33:12 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

Will they really choose to die on this hill?

Sadly yes. 

Consider the evidence. Time and time again they have been given a clear warning that this shit sinks the franchise and drives people away, yet they press on. 

Go back to 2013. The SJWs had just begun to sink their claws into the franchise. They'd already chased Moff off twitter, earned a reputation with their STFU Moffat crap, and the mainstream media had begun to pick up on this shit and smear Moffat as a sexist, homophobe, racist etc.

Of course at this point everyone in fandom was against them and viewed them as the crazies they were, including rabid New Who fans like Rani who as Rob kindly pointed out, was against the idea of a female Doctor at that point. 

Doctor Who was more popular than ever before with mainstream audiences meanwhile. It had regained its following abroad, was doing extremely well in the UK, Matt Smith was an actor most people could get behind. Peter Capaldi, an Oscar winner and highly respected actor was cast and critics, fans and audiences alike were excited at what he would bring to the role. 

However the SJWs were enraged about Peter Capaldi, a white straight man was cast rather than a black woman, and we all hoped they'd be ignored, but clearly Moffat and the Beeb valued their opinions, and viewed them as being more important than everyone else. As a result the next year they gave us Missy solely to pander to them. 

Missy was a disaster. The show shed two million viewers between series 8 and 9. To be fair she wasn't the sole reason. Losing Matt, and Clara taking over and the poor quality of season 8 all contributed, but for many Missy was the death blow as she showed them where the show was going. (Iank for instance finally stopped watching because of Missy.)

To be fair to the Beeb, they could be forgiven for thinking that season 8 was a success before season 9 went out. It did mark the turning point when the fandom spinelessly started to go along with the vandalisation of the show. Now that Moffat was seemingly okay with the SJWs, so many of his cult like followers followed suit and "bent the knee" to the Whovian Feminism types, and actually praised Missy. 

Still all of these illusions of Missy being the most popular Master ever must have been shattered when season 9 started. The opening Dalek two parter got the lowest ever viewing figures for a Dalek story. (They had to repeat it twice on Sunday just to dredge up its consolidated figures, and even then they were still lower than any 80s Dalek story.) 

Viewers remained low throughout all of season 9 (which btw was when the real political pandering began, with the clumsy Zygons immigration metaphor, the Generals regenderation.) Series 9 unlike the McCoy era was given every chance as well. It was advertised in cinemas, on the tv, on the side of buses, on the cover of the radio times, it was shown on Saturday, right after Strictly Come Dancing that was pulling in 11 million. Yet DW's viewers averaged out at barely over 3 million throughout the series. Only two years after it had been literally the most popular show in the UK!

Added to that whilst the official fans on GB still praised it, that was when the backlash started to happen online, (with many people doing videos attacking the PC pandering.) 

It was a clear sign to the BBC that the SJW pandering hadn't worked with anyone, but the most spineless cult like fans. Yet in spite of this, Moff continued to pander to the SJWs in 2017. Missy was upgraded to a regular, Bill's sexuality was constantly sign posted in the most clumsy, awkward way. Again nothing against gay characters, or promiscuous gay characters either. (One of main characters in my own work is bisexual.) However when you have to stop the story every episode and have her say to the audience I'M GAY! Then yeah it comes over as a smug, Supergirlesque lecturing the plebs on how to be tolerant. Added to that Moff also said he only cast her because she was a minority.

The show also had the Doctor apologise for being a man, and forced in awkward anti capitalism anti Trump remarks into many episodes. For the record I hate capitalism too, but the way it was shoehorned into the Capaldi era, it really did feel like Rik was writing the scripts. Ultimately I don't think Moff is political at all. That's fine. Many of my favourite writers and actors aren't political. Amy Winehouse always refused to talk politics for instance. Still when you force a non political person to be political like Moff then it's a disaster. Moff once said "Capitalism and Communism can work as long as there is love behind them" UGH with this in mind he shouldn't have been forced to do these types of stories non stop by the pushy BBC. 

Capaldi's last season was an absolute failure in the ratings. The show shed another million viewers on average from the dregs of series 9. Overnight viewers crashed to barely above 2 million for one episode. Again this was in spite of being given the best time slot, heavy promotion and advertising and good reviews from the shill media. Added to that the backlash over its overt politics really started to take hold this year, with several fans doing youtube videos saying they'd stopped watching it for that reason.

Surely by the end of this era, anyone with a brain would have realised that pandering to identity politics had taken the show from one of the most popular and beloved, to an abject failure, barely struggling to stay on the air in a space of just 4 years, but even with that warning they STILL went ahead with a female Doctor. 

They gloated about it, did videos about how glad they were the fans who were unhappy had left. Of course much like Missy they were given an illusion of success as the first episode did pull in millions out of curiosity. However its viewers began to crash and by the end of series 11 it was obvious that this experiment was a failure. 

Not only were viewers low again, but merchandise had completely vanished. Also the SJW fans they all courted were leaving in droves. Crystal Dee officially left the fandom in 2018 and went to work for the mainstream media. Whovian Feminism dropped out the fandom too and went to shill for Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. 

Then there was also the backlash, with even the media turning against Jodie, bad reviews online, the show becoming a by word for cheesy, forced PC messages. 

Surely all of this would let them finally know "it's a failed experiment." 

Yet they pushed on again, and actually shattered the entire history of the show, both in and out of universe in order to not have a white straight man, Hartnell be the first Doctor. 

Now the show is all but dead. Viewers on average are lower than ever before, spin off material has tanked, the show is routinely mocked by the mainstream media, (with headlines like Doctor Woke.) The fans apart from the most die hard shills like Jon Blum and Mr Tardis only talk about it to rip the piss out of it. (And even then most of them have moved on.)

Yet in spite of this they are STILL considering pandering to the SJW audience, wanting ANOTHER female Doctor, and preferably a black one for no reason other than "she's black." I also doubt that Chinballs last series will shy away from shallow politics.

With this in mind I fail to see why the Beeb would learn their lesson after the next inevitable failure. What's needed at this stage is for the BBC to go and the show to end up with a new company who might at least have a little bit of business acumen not to actively torpedo their own series pandering to a tiny minority. 

[zarius]

[burrunjor]

Sept 7, 2021 19:54:52 GMT zarius said:

LOL how is Jon Blum going to spin this?

Also how long before 5 years turns into 10 years. I'm guessing they are axing it and hoping no one will give a shit or be expecting it in 5 years. Don't worry boys if you axed it now no one would give a shit. 

Now if only there had been a Scottish Amy Winehouse fan, who likes women with big noses, and Dinosaurs and Vampire fiction and writes long posts who had warned them about all of this since 2013 and said that turning the Doctor into a woman would be a career ending move for anyone who did it and sink the show like the titanic. 

I can't think of a guy like that can you? 

[Deleted]