|
|
Post by RobFilth on Apr 3, 2021 18:33:01 GMT
Ingrid is in Death in Heaven. Doesn't mean it isn't utter dreck. Warriors isn't as bad as DIH, but that is very, very faint praise. It's hard to believe either could be in the same show as Androzani meanwhile. Hell it's hard to believe both were made by the same species as Androzani. To be fair there are other reasons why I like Warriors which I've mentioned here. Androzani is good, but incredibly overrated. Not a patch on Earthshock or Resurrection. Nicola's acting is cringe and I find Part 2 to be very slow. I have to admit, whenever I've shown non-fans classic series stories, they get sucked into Earthshock or Resurrection far more quickly than they do into Caves. Both of those ARE more accessible stories for non-fans, Caves is too talky, especially at the start. It takes a good few views to fully appreciate Caves. As for Warriors, it's crap but entertaining in places(for all the wrong reasons), which is better than stories which are outright dull. |
|
|
|
Post by RobFilth on Apr 3, 2021 18:35:47 GMT
I actually got Paradise Towers recently. It was the only McCoy I didn't have. I'm keen for a rewatch to see if it is as bad as I remember. I can remember even as a child rolling along the floor laughing at Richard Briers "performance". The acting in it is atrocious and pantomimic, the cleaner robots look like lego pieces and it's a bit shit. Despite that, I quite like the storyline, it reminds me of the sort of thing DWM would run in their comic strip at the time. |
|
|
|
Post by Bernard Marx on Apr 3, 2021 18:37:02 GMT
Why’s everyone slagging off Caves in this thread? It’s class!
Having said that, I have warmed massively to Resurrection over time, despite a few scripting issues. Warriors of the Deep is pretty flimsy, to put it mildly, with an appalling production and abysmal direction. To be honest, I do also think there are elements of the script which gel quite badly (as UncleDeadly had articulated in more eloquent terms than myself on ArcHive) but I don’t think it’s as bad as Time-Flight or a select few other Davison stories. It’s far from boring, put it that way, despite its frankly laughable nature and massively shoddy quality. If it were patched up and re-drafted in a few areas, I’d probably rate it above Planet of Fire, which I found entirely forgettable on my previous viewing. It’s better made, for certain, but it does absolutely nothing noteworthy.
And yeah, it’s nowhere near as bad as Death in Heaven, as embarrassing as it is. But then again, you’d be hard-pressed to find many stories which are.
|
|
|
|
Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2021 18:38:05 GMT
To be fair there are other reasons why I like Warriors which I've mentioned here. Androzani is good, but incredibly overrated. Not a patch on Earthshock or Resurrection. Nicola's acting is cringe and I find Part 2 to be very slow. I have to admit, whenever I've shown non-fans classic series stories, they get sucked into Earthshock or Resurrection far more quickly than they do into Caves. Both of those ARE more accessible stories for non-fans, Caves is too talky, especially at the start. It takes a good few views to fully appreciate Caves. As for Warriors, it's crap but entertaining in places(for all the wrong reasons), which is better than stories which are outright dull. I actually agree about that.. Resurrection is an excellent story to introduce people to the show with. It betrays the myth that DW was a silly, light hearted, children's show. It is gritty, dark, scary and the production values and direction are as good as anything in shows like Babylon 5, Buffy, Supernatural made 10, 20 years later. I remember showing it to a friend who was expecting something like the original Trek, IE a cheesy light hearted romp and she was shocked at the opening scene, saying it was like watching a horror movie! Warriors however is still across the board shit.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 18:39:11 GMT
To be fair there are other reasons why I like Warriors which I've mentioned here. Androzani is good, but incredibly overrated. Not a patch on Earthshock or Resurrection. Nicola's acting is cringe and I find Part 2 to be very slow. Sorry I fail to see anything of value in Warriors. Resurrection is a underrated gem. Earthshock is a bit straight forward, but superbly directed and even by today's standards extremely bold for the show. Warriors however is almost like a poster child for what's wrong with the 80s. Every era probably has a story like that that condenses everything shit about a decade or era LOL. The Time Monster for instance is everything wrong with Pertwee era Who. Overuse of the Master, far too long, Barry Letts being too self indulgent and injecting his own beliefs into it, UNIT just being there for the sake of it, the Brig being useless etc. Warriors is pretty much that. Crap effects, and worse JNT not knowing what the limits of the BBC budget would give him and doing something that even a show like Buffy, Star Trek, or Xena would struggle to do (IE a giant monster), it trying to be angsty for the sake of it, the Doctor being made weak to make it more dramatic, pointless return of old enemies for nostalgia sake, I suppose that could be another thread. The quintessential shit story of each era LOL. Pretty much every era will have one story that has all the faults of that time in the programe but none of the redeeming qualities. In Jodie's case though that would be every episode. Yes, Resurrection is very underrated. I love the outfits in Warriors and the synthesizer score. It's also got that cold war vibe which I always find fascinating. It's a production that's firmly rooted in the 80s (even though it's set in 2084), but considering I love the decade to pieces I really have no issue with that. There's plenty to enjoy in Warriors if you're in the right mood. There's a few action scenes, a suspenseful moment here and there and some decent moments between the TARDIS crew. I like it in the same way that I like Timelash really. It's B-Movie level fun. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 18:40:45 GMT
I actually got Paradise Towers recently. It was the only McCoy I didn't have. I'm keen for a rewatch to see if it is as bad as I remember. I can remember even as a child rolling along the floor laughing at Richard Briers "performance". The acting in it is atrocious and pantomimic, the cleaner robots look like lego pieces and it's a bit shit. Despite that, I quite like the storyline, it reminds me of the sort of thing DWM would run in their comic strip at the time. Yeah, I'm not as fond of PT these days. I love Delta and the Bannermen with all my heart, though. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 18:48:28 GMT
It's a falling down production disaster and poorly directed, but I prefer "Warriors" to the outright snooze'o'thons of the Davison era such as "Bore To Doomsday", "Time-Shite", "Terminus Boredom", etc. It's literally no worse than "Arc Of Infinity" or "Planet of Fire" and it's still head and shoulders above most of what came post-hiatus. I actually quite like the script of Johnny Byrnes, although giving away the plot resolution in episode 1 was a bit dumb. Just a damn shame they couldn't have got a decent director, dimmed the lights a bit(power drain after the Doctor sabotages the nuclear reactor perhaps?) and given the Eocene's a bit more synchronicity in the fight sequences which are appalling. Some decent weapon effects wouldn't have gone amiss either. The Myrka would have been alright as it was if shot in semidarkness and dripping a bit of slime and directed a bit better. It reminds me a lot of "Paradise Towers" in that it's a half-decent script executed VERY badly. I actually got Paradise Towers recently. It was the only McCoy I didn't have. I'm keen for a rewatch to see if it is as bad as I remember. I can remember even as a child rolling along the floor laughing at Richard Briers "performance". I don't even own all of the McCoy stories. I only have my absolute favourites from the era. Same with Davison. I just can't be bothered to collect them all because most of them will be sitting on the shelf, untouched anyway. I do own Warriors on DVD as I was able to get it as a single on Ebay so I didn't have to buy the Beneath the Surface set. |
|
|
|
Post by Bernard Marx on Apr 3, 2021 18:48:32 GMT
I actually got Paradise Towers recently. It was the only McCoy I didn't have. I'm keen for a rewatch to see if it is as bad as I remember. I can remember even as a child rolling along the floor laughing at Richard Briers "performance". The acting in it is atrocious and pantomimic, the cleaner robots look like lego pieces and it's a bit shit. Despite that, I quite like the storyline, it reminds me of the sort of thing DWM would run in their comic strip at the time. Have to say, on my prior viewing of it, I thought Paradise Towers was absolutely deathly. Time and the Rani was actually better than I remember it being (despite its shoddiness) but Paradise Towers is such a hodgepodge of a story. It incorporates intelligent influences like Kafka, Hubbard and Gilliam in there (there are shades of The Trial and the film “Brazil” in the central premise and look of it), but it completely f*cks it up when it tries to amalgamate these influences with a pantomimic and downright shrill atmosphere. It’s probably my least favourite season 24 story because there *is* a potentially good story in there which happens to be completely nullified and rendered tone-deaf in the process, which only makes it more jarring and difficult to get into for me. |
|
|
|
Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2021 18:53:53 GMT
Why’s everyone slagging off Caves in this thread? It’s class! Having said that, I have warmed massively to Resurrection over time, despite a few scripting issues. Warriors of the Deep is pretty flimsy, to put it mildly, with an appalling production and abysmal direction. To be honest, I do also think there are elements of the script which gel quite badly (as UncleDeadly had articulated in more eloquent terms than myself on ArcHive) but I don’t think it’s as bad as Time-Flight or a select few other Davison stories. It’s far from boring, put it that way, despite its frankly laughable nature and massively shoddy quality. If it were patched up and re-drafted in a few areas, I’d probably rate it above Planet of Fire, which I found entirely forgettable on my previous viewing. It’s better made, for certain, but it does absolutely nothing noteworthy. And yeah, it’s nowhere near as bad as Death in Heaven, as embarrassing as it is. But then again, you’d be hard-pressed to find many stories which are. Resurrection I'd say saved Davros and made him a classic villain. Genesis is excellent obvs, but a lot of people felt he shouldn't have been brought back. Whilst Destiny is fun, it was a bit of an underwhelming return. You can see how if that had been his only return appearance, later writers might have thought "don't bother with him again. He was clearly only effective for one story." Resurrection however really showed there was long term value in the character, and personally I not only love the story from Genesis to Remembrance, but I think that it is the best story arc in the entire history of Classic Who. As for Warriors I can understand his affection for it for being very 80s. I'm like that for certain decades. Hell even episodes of Primeval, and Tennant era Who I like them because they have a 00s charm to them. Same with certain Hartnell stories like The War Machine's. You can't help but admire it's 60s charm. Still to me Warriors I think did the opposite for the Silurians that Resurrection did for Davros in that it made it look like there wasn't much in them, except to repeat the same story again, but not as well. Yes DIH is the worst. Sorry to get it sidetracked onto yet another convo about that LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2021 18:55:46 GMT
I actually got Paradise Towers recently. It was the only McCoy I didn't have. I'm keen for a rewatch to see if it is as bad as I remember. I can remember even as a child rolling along the floor laughing at Richard Briers "performance". I don't even own all of the McCoy stories. I only have my absolute favourites from the era. Same with Davison. I just can't be bothered to collect them all because most of them will be sitting on the shelf, untouched anyway. I do own Warriors on DVD as I was able to get it as a single on Ebay so I didn't have to buy the Beneath the Surface set. My family were such big DW fans that collecting them on DVD is like second nature to me now LOL. I have almost all of True Who and a big chunk of New Who too on DVD. Delta and the Bannermen is actually quite fun. It's not a classic, and very twee, but for what it's worth it is a great laugh. The biker girl is quite cute and likable and McCoy seems more comfortable at that point. It's a step up from Time and the Rani, and if it came before Paradise Towers a step up from that too. |
|
|
|
Post by iank on Apr 3, 2021 21:13:26 GMT
It's pretty crap. The only reason most of fandom abhores Warriors and bums up Resurrection is that the latter is better made, which can con you into thinking it's good (which it isn't) while the former is more obviously shoddy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 21:32:29 GMT
I think people praise Resurrection because it's actually good...
|
|
|
|
Post by iank on Apr 3, 2021 21:33:48 GMT
I don't, because it's not. |
|
|
|
Post by RobFilth on Apr 4, 2021 3:28:33 GMT
IanK is right, it's not good. It's downright bloody brilliant!  |
|
|
|
Post by UncleDeadly on Apr 4, 2021 9:55:27 GMT
I remember showing it to a friend who was expecting something like the original Trek, IE a cheesy light hearted romp You're doing Star Trek a HUGE disservice there... Incidentally, regarding the production of Warriors, it's unfair to lay all the blame at the feet of JNT and the production team. As has been discussed before, due to the announcement of the upcoming general election there was a clamour for studio space and Warriors was rushed into production, losing two weeks in the process. No-one was happy with this and i think that's hugely mitigating as Doctor Who was always starved of money and resources at the best of times. |
|
