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Post by burrunjor on Mar 23, 2024 15:59:07 GMT
We always think oh how amazing it would have been if in the 90s John Carpenter and Leonard Nimoy made it and Tim Curry or Rik Mayall played the Doctor I would pay good money for exactly none of this to happen Just being contrarian again for the sake of it LOL? How can you honestly say that John Carpenter, whose movies are more or less classic Who stories with a big budget. (Prince of Darkness = Pyramids of Mars, The Thing = Seeds of Doom ) and Leonard Nimoy who directed two all time classic sci fi movies would do a worse or even as bad a job together with DW as the Queer as Folk guy? Now I'll give you Star Trek is a different type of sci fi to DW, BUT when Leonard Nimoy was hired to do a DW movie in the 90s, that sadly went nowhere, he spent hours researching the show and gathered a mountain of tapes and spoke with other writers and actors to try and understand it, which is more than RTD or any of the modern showrunners did. Yeah I don't see how that's a better CV for making a modern DW than this. Meanwhile Rik Mayall believe it or not was actually a really good serious actor. He never really got a chance to show it, but honestly he could do straight roles no problem, and did always mention that he wanted to do serious acting. To me he could have been a Jon Pertwee type. Tim Curry meanwhile, well just watch Clue. He basically played the Doctor in that and was the best part of the movie. He is the epitome of what the Doctor should be, a crazy, wild eyed, eccentric, booming voice, posh, upper class English guy like Tom Baker or William Hartnell (I know they were actually both working class, but that's how they played it.) I don't mind a non English guy playing it to be clear, but ideally, yeah that's what the character is. The classic English eccentric, like Vyvian Stanshall, and Tim Curry is one of the shinning examples of that. Again more so than the guy from oop north dramas. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Mar 23, 2024 20:09:12 GMT
I seem to recall comparisons previously being drawn here between the current mess and Lenny Henry's Doctor Who sketches. Frankly, and i'm being deadly serious here, Gatwa makes Henry look not only viable but actually desirable. And that was meant to be a spoof..! Lenny Henry's fake Doctor's first words- amidst seeing Peri unintelligibly shrieking in a fit of exaggerated inane panic- were "Peri, SHUT UP!". Gatwa's Doctor would actively participate in said shrieking if he caught one of his companions doing that. |
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Post by henshin on Mar 24, 2024 1:01:47 GMT
One of RTDs first ever contributions to Doctor Who was a gay sex scene in the novel that he wrote during the 90s. This was always part of the plan. He's the Klaus Schwab os sci-fi. Was that in Damaged Goods? I also heard that there is a scene where Ace gives a guy a blow job in the back of a car? Or am I getting that mixed up with the creepy relationship between Ace and Glitz and another filthy thing RTD did? Honestly thank f*ck DW was cancelled in the 80s. If that is a Virgin New Adventures novel, then yes, I believe that is the book. |
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Post by iank on Mar 24, 2024 1:44:22 GMT
It's not Ace, she'd gone by then. It was Chris Cwej.
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Post by rushy on Mar 24, 2024 5:30:23 GMT
Just being contrarian again for the sake of it LOL? How can you honestly say that John Carpenter, whose movies are more or less classic Who stories with a big budget. (Prince of Darkness = Pyramids of Mars, The Thing = Seeds of Doom ) and Leonard Nimoy who directed two all time classic sci fi movies would do a worse or even as bad a job together with DW as the Queer as Folk guy? Now I'll give you Star Trek is a different type of sci fi to DW, BUT when Leonard Nimoy was hired to do a DW movie in the 90s, that sadly went nowhere, he spent hours researching the show and gathered a mountain of tapes and spoke with other writers and actors to try and understand it, which is more than RTD or any of the modern showrunners did. Meanwhile Rik Mayall believe it or not was actually a really good serious actor. He never really got a chance to show it, but honestly he could do straight roles no problem, and did always mention that he wanted to do serious acting. To me he could have been a Jon Pertwee type. Tim Curry meanwhile, well just watch Clue. He basically played the Doctor in that and was the best part of the movie. He is the epitome of what the Doctor should be, a crazy, wild eyed, eccentric, booming voice, posh, upper class English guy like Tom Baker or William Hartnell (I know they were actually both working class, but that's how they played it.) I don't mind a non English guy playing it to be clear, but ideally, yeah that's what the character is. The classic English eccentric, like Vyvian Stanshall, and Tim Curry is one of the shinning examples of that. Again more so than the guy from oop north dramas. I'm never a contrarian. I just have my own opinions. Carpenter is one of my favourite directors, but I just don't think he'd enjoy getting bogged down in Dr Who. He was always off doing his own stuff. Maybe he'd do one episode after a lot of convincing. Meanwhile I recently rewatched the original Trek films and now I feel that Nimoy was overrated as a director. Could he grasp Dr Who accurately? Maybe. But the idea of him in charge doesn't immediately excite me. He's solid as a filmmaker, not remarkable. I've never liked Mayall or Curry all that much. Not even as a kid. All they ever seem to do is ham it up, and not in a particularly witty way either. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 24, 2024 11:13:20 GMT
Just being contrarian again for the sake of it LOL? How can you honestly say that John Carpenter, whose movies are more or less classic Who stories with a big budget. (Prince of Darkness = Pyramids of Mars, The Thing = Seeds of Doom ) and Leonard Nimoy who directed two all time classic sci fi movies would do a worse or even as bad a job together with DW as the Queer as Folk guy? Now I'll give you Star Trek is a different type of sci fi to DW, BUT when Leonard Nimoy was hired to do a DW movie in the 90s, that sadly went nowhere, he spent hours researching the show and gathered a mountain of tapes and spoke with other writers and actors to try and understand it, which is more than RTD or any of the modern showrunners did. Meanwhile Rik Mayall believe it or not was actually a really good serious actor. He never really got a chance to show it, but honestly he could do straight roles no problem, and did always mention that he wanted to do serious acting. To me he could have been a Jon Pertwee type. Tim Curry meanwhile, well just watch Clue. He basically played the Doctor in that and was the best part of the movie. He is the epitome of what the Doctor should be, a crazy, wild eyed, eccentric, booming voice, posh, upper class English guy like Tom Baker or William Hartnell (I know they were actually both working class, but that's how they played it.) I don't mind a non English guy playing it to be clear, but ideally, yeah that's what the character is. The classic English eccentric, like Vyvian Stanshall, and Tim Curry is one of the shinning examples of that. Again more so than the guy from oop north dramas. I'm never a contrarian. I just have my own opinions. Carpenter is one of my favourite directors, but I just don't think he'd enjoy getting bogged down in Dr Who. He was always off doing his own stuff. Maybe he'd do one episode after a lot of convincing.
Meanwhile I recently rewatched the original Trek films and now I feel that Nimoy was overrated as a director. Could he grasp Dr Who accurately? Maybe. But the idea of him in charge doesn't immediately excite me. He's solid as a filmmaker, not remarkable. I've never liked Mayall or Curry all that much. Not even as a kid. All they ever seem to do is ham it up, and not in a particularly witty way either. That's the thing, he wouldn't be bogged down for a decade. He'd do three years ideally, which isn't that much longer than it takes to make a film sometimes. Also he wouldn't be the showrunner anyway. Just a producer. Same with Leonard Nimoy, they'd just ideally run the show, come up with a general direction for it and use their connections to bring in a wide range of sci fi and fantasy writers from around the world, give it a bigger budget, more promotion and hold back each others excesses. Carpenter would give it more of a scary edge and handle stories set on modern day with a claustrophobic, horror angle, whilst Nimoy would focus more on stories set in space, maybe even add a Trek style philosophical aspect to some stories about the nature of life? Nimoy however would stop Carpenter from making it too scary, whilst Carpenter would stop Nimoy from making it too up its own arse and preachy. I might add that aside from Carpenters films basically being big budget DW adventures (Again Prince of Darkness = Pyramids of Mars, The Thing = Seeds of Doom, The Fog = Curse of Fenric.) Ironically so much of the Pertwee era drew from Star Trek. Barry Letts and Pertwee himself were huge Trekkies. The Third Doctor is basically Spock and Kirk in some ways mixed together. Vulcan neck pinch = Venusian Karate, the third Doctor being the more rational alien in a double act with a brave, but somewhat reckless human with the Brigadier has shades of Spock and Kirk, the Third Doctor however also being a bit reckless and arrogant and going into big cheesy speeches about the nature of life and the universe has shades of Captain Kirk, and some episodes drew from Star Trek episodes. The Mind of Evil and Curse of Peladon in particular share almost the same basic plots as two Star Trek episodes, whilst Frontier in Space is very Star Trek, with the Draconians sitting in for the Klingons. (At the same time however DW also unintentionally foreshadowed a major development in Star Trek in fittingly Curse of Peladon, in that the Ice Warriors story arc is kind of a forebear to the Klingons. Both are an evil warrior race, who were once major enemies of the hero, but who later become allies of the Federation, but who still remain a proud warrior race and the hero has a hard time believing they've changed.) Inferno also is a take on the Star Trek alternate universe episode. Finally I might add the original origin for the Master, that he was the dark side of the Doctor that had been made flesh through a scientific experiment gone wrong was also lifted from a classic Trek episode, though ultimately they scrapped this as they didn't want the Doctor to have been responsible for the deaths of innocent people, hence the Master being his brother angle which sadly never made it to screen due to Delgado's death. There is more overlap between Who and Trek than people think. I might add the fandoms have always got on very well, with many actors from both franchises being friends with each other. Meanwhile all 3 of Nimoy's Star Trek films were excellent and are generally agreed to have been excellent? Okay everyone's taste is different, but I wouldn't have thought there was much objectively wrong with Star Trek 3, 4 and 6, certainly in terms of how they were made? Those three films, as well as you know starring in the only other sci fi tv series to rival DW in popularity, that helped inspired one of the most beloved eras of DW, I would have thought was a pretty good cv for someone doing a sci fi show? More than having done late night C4 shows about misogynistic, caricatures of gay guys wanking each other off in cubicles in sleazy 00s night clubs? Now I'm not saying that either Carpenter or Nimoy would have done it. (Though Nimoy did really want too, the BBC just didn't let him.) That's the point they were the dream team in my analogy, and as I said in the post, sadly it most likely would have been the Fitzroy Crowd even back then in the f*cking 90s who would have taken it over and wrecked it. Sadly to a BBC elitist, Nimoy having made Trek, a stupid sci fi show that was an embarrassment, DOES make him less of a candidate than someone who does "proper telly" about the Manchester gay scene like RTD. Also yes even if Nimoy and Carpenter had done it together, maybe it still would have gone tits up, who knows, but that's the point it really couldn't have been any worse than what we did get with the Fitzroy Crowd? Seriously how could they have messed up the Master more than Missy? The Doctors origins more than the Timeless Children? Undermined what the show was supposed to have been and brought worse people to the fandom than the likes of Bendy Cock? Hey at least if Carpenter and Nimoy had been wrong for it, they'd have left and not clung to the franchise like a bad smell for the next 30 years. Meanwhile well I don't know how anyone could hate Rik Mayall who was the funniest British comedy actor of all time as far as I'm concerned, but like I said he was actually a very good straight, serious actor, the few times he got a chance to show it off. Furthermore he always said he'd love to get more straight roles and show he could do more than the hammy characters. With this in mind I think had he been cast as the Doctor, much like Pertwee before him Rik would have used it as a way to do that, and would have probably been an ultra serious, charismatic dashing Doctor. Obviously not just a Pertwee clone, as he would have brought his own personality to it, but definitely shades of that. That's one of the ways to cast the Doctor IMO, go for an actor that you could never imagine playing the hero or romantic lead, or even a family role in anything else. All but Davison in classic who fitted that idea. Hartnell, known to play bastards, thugs, tough guys, and villains. Troughton by that stage, firmly a character actor, who often played victims. Pertwee, like Rik an outrageous comedy actor. Tom, typecast as a villain actor, Colin, also typecast as a villain actor, McCoy, typecast as a villain, a victim and a comedy actor at different points LOL. None are conventional leading men, and to me Rik would have been the same. Nobody would ever think he could be a hero to little children LOL, based on his past roles like Alan B'stard or Lord Flashheart, but again I can see him totally embracing that and surprising everybody by being serious, but still having the crazy energy and also it must be said he had a brilliant Doctorish look with his long hair and debonair looks. Tim Curry, well I mean come on here! He and Tom Baker are basically the same type of actor LOL. Both the same wild eyed, booming voiced, posh, eccentric, energetic English actor who is known for playing wild, dangerous, intense, sexy, show stealing villains, both also did pretty much everything under the sun in terms of boozing, drugs, sleeping around LOL. Both hung out with rockstars, both broke social conventions in terms of how outrageous they were, and even small things like their mad wild hair in the 70s etc. The only difference is Curry kept playing the villains and eventually became a big Hollywood superstar as a result, whilst Tom managed to break out of the villain mold and play a heroic role that ironically typecast him to the point where he couldn't do much else afterards. It's hard to say who had the better career in that respect, as Curry obviously got more work and became a name in his own right, where as Tom did break free from the typecasting? Still that's why in the 90s it would have been f*cking amazing to give Tim Curry a chance to break free from the typecasting and let his madcap energy be channelled into more of a crazy uncle type of a character, rather than a dark villain. The closest he came to that was Clue, with his character in that being very much a Doctorish type. Yeah no similarities there. I definitely can't see Curry working out with this in mind? Let's get that guy who always plays moody Northeners, is really awkward doing eccentric parts, or let's get the guy we cast as Casanova, or let's just cast my friend from Broadchurch instead LOL. Those are all great choices. Out of all the actors they've cast really only Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi fit that template, but Capaldi was of course wasted. You don't get an edgy actor like him to play the role and then just turn it into a Tennant clone. (I might add Curry was cast and even said he wanted to do it to escape being seen as the villain, but sadly that version in the 90s went nowhere.) |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Mar 24, 2024 11:20:05 GMT
Just being contrarian again for the sake of it LOL? How can you honestly say that John Carpenter, whose movies are more or less classic Who stories with a big budget. (Prince of Darkness = Pyramids of Mars, The Thing = Seeds of Doom ) and Leonard Nimoy who directed two all time classic sci fi movies would do a worse or even as bad a job together with DW as the Queer as Folk guy? Now I'll give you Star Trek is a different type of sci fi to DW, BUT when Leonard Nimoy was hired to do a DW movie in the 90s, that sadly went nowhere, he spent hours researching the show and gathered a mountain of tapes and spoke with other writers and actors to try and understand it, which is more than RTD or any of the modern showrunners did. Meanwhile Rik Mayall believe it or not was actually a really good serious actor. He never really got a chance to show it, but honestly he could do straight roles no problem, and did always mention that he wanted to do serious acting. To me he could have been a Jon Pertwee type. Tim Curry meanwhile, well just watch Clue. He basically played the Doctor in that and was the best part of the movie. He is the epitome of what the Doctor should be, a crazy, wild eyed, eccentric, booming voice, posh, upper class English guy like Tom Baker or William Hartnell (I know they were actually both working class, but that's how they played it.) I don't mind a non English guy playing it to be clear, but ideally, yeah that's what the character is. The classic English eccentric, like Vyvian Stanshall, and Tim Curry is one of the shinning examples of that. Again more so than the guy from oop north dramas. I'm never a contrarian. I just have my own opinions.That's not the way we do it around here. #KeepItAnEchoChamber #CircleJerk4Ever #WeAre1 |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 24, 2024 11:21:57 GMT
It's not Ace, she'd gone by then. It was Chris Cwej. Female or male companion? Chris can be a female or male name like the lead in Adventures in Babysitting. (PS in my hypothetical 90s who how awesome would Shue have been as the companion haha.) I'd take a guess and say it was a male if it was RTD writing it, but to be honest I think as a writer he is just obsessed with sex in general. I can't remember who, but I think it was Rob who said he can imagine RTD in his writers class submitting a story that was nothing but sex, and then being told by his teacher that he had to have...... a plot, only to then say "Awwwwww plots are for anorak, virgin losers." |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Mar 24, 2024 11:25:56 GMT
It's not Ace, she'd gone by then. It was Chris Cwej. Female or male companion? Chris can be a female or male name like the lead in Adventures in Babysitting. (PS in my hypothetical 90s who how awesome would Shue have been as the companion haha.) I'd take a guess and say it was a male if it was RTD writing it, but to be honest I think as a writer he is just obsessed with sex in general. I can't remember who, but I think it was Rob who said he can imagine RTD in his writers class submitting a story that was nothing but sex, and then being told by his teacher that he had to have...... a plot, only to then say "Awwwwww plots are for anorak, virgin losers." Chris was a man. He did have a cool partner who was a black woman called Roz. Certainly better than Benny, anyway. |
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Post by rushy on Mar 24, 2024 11:42:35 GMT
I'd much rather see Shatner take over than Nimoy, even though of course he'd never do it. But he'd bring so much personality, and I really like what he did with Final Frontier. Poor special effects aside, it's photographed much more beautifully than Nimoy's films. The lush alien skies of Nimbus, and the mountain climb on Earth are just gorgeous. Plus, he was just so full of zany ideas whilst being committed to doing justice to Roddenberry. Nimoy is too straightforward for my liking, and I've never been too fond of his films save for Voyage Home. And that's only because it's a fun comedy. But Search for Spock I can take or leave, and the less said about Undiscovered Country, the better.
My reluctance towards Curry and Mayall might have something to do with my love for the authoritarian, cynical Doctors (Hartnell, Eccleston). I prefer low-key dark humour to the showy madcap attitude they'd bring. I'd cast Richard Armitage. Or in a perfect world, Aliens 3-era Charles Dance.
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Post by henshin on Mar 24, 2024 11:47:08 GMT
For me, Christopher Nolan Producing with Cillian Murphy as the Doctor.
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Post by rushy on Mar 24, 2024 11:50:37 GMT
For me, Christopher Nolan Producing with Cillian Murphy as the Doctor. I can definitely live with this. Murphy with his sarcastic Scarecrow performance would be brilliant. |
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Post by henshin on Mar 24, 2024 11:53:09 GMT
Just imagine it, Caine regenerating into Murphy.
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Post by iank on Mar 24, 2024 21:18:25 GMT
It's not Ace, she'd gone by then. It was Chris Cwej. Female or male companion? Chris can be a female or male name like the lead in Adventures in Babysitting. (PS in my hypothetical 90s who how awesome would Shue have been as the companion haha.) I'd take a guess and say it was a male if it was RTD writing it, but to be honest I think as a writer he is just obsessed with sex in general. I can't remember who, but I think it was Rob who said he can imagine RTD in his writers class submitting a story that was nothing but sex, and then being told by his teacher that he had to have...... a plot, only to then say "Awwwwww plots are for anorak, virgin losers." Yeah, Chris was a man. That being said, it must have been fairly subtle cause it went right over my head at the time (either that or I'm just very naive lol). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2024 22:54:51 GMT
For me, Christopher Nolan Producing with Cillian Murphy as the Doctor. Please god no |
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