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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2024 19:44:38 GMT
This is so backwards
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Mar 19, 2024 19:54:20 GMT
They just won't let anyone else have a go.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 19, 2024 20:27:11 GMT
They just won't let anyone else have a go. "DW thrives on change and moving on." |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Mar 19, 2024 20:41:48 GMT
They just won't let anyone else have a go. "DW thrives on change and moving on." You know, I'm really starting to think that's bullshit. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 19, 2024 20:51:23 GMT
"DW thrives on change and moving on." You know, I'm really starting to think that's bullshit. Nah how can it be? It's almost 20 years on from 2005 and we have RTD producing, Phil Collinson producing, Julie Gardner producing, Steven Moffat writing for it, we've just had David Tennant playing the Doctor, a companion that's a blonde girl from 21st century London whose name begins with an R, and Murray Gold composing. It's obviously moved on a lot because now the Doctors a magic being from another universe, who splits in two and creates new universes when he regenerates. |
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Post by Ludders II on Mar 19, 2024 21:13:31 GMT
They just won't let anyone else have a go. But who would want to? It's like being asked to clear up someone else's shit. 😬😆 |
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Post by zarius on Mar 20, 2024 6:47:14 GMT
It's kind of like the situation with Amazing Spider-Man...they can't get anyone new to write for it and rely on the talents from the late 2000s, all due to their policies and editorial constraints on the character
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Post by iank on Mar 20, 2024 7:22:16 GMT
They're terrified of some actual professionals coming in and making it good, exposing their entire bastardisation for the joke it is.
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Post by rushy on Mar 20, 2024 7:29:05 GMT
To be fair, Holmes stuck around for ages too, so it's not as if there's no precedent for returning reliable writers. Louis Marks is another one.
But yes, obviously this is a bit much, given how big of an effect they've had on the modern period
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Post by zarius on Mar 26, 2024 15:00:04 GMT
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Mar 26, 2024 17:16:14 GMT
Hasn't changed that much? What the f*ck are you talking about? You were the primary instigator of everything you've just denounced, Moffat.
Is the man really this deluded? Has he gone senile to the point of believing that it's still 2013?
How can he of all people say any of this with a straight face?
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 26, 2024 17:46:21 GMT
To be fair, Holmes stuck around for ages too, so it's not as if there's no precedent for returning reliable writers. Louis Marks is another one. But yes, obviously this is a bit much, given how big of an effect they've had on the modern period Not the same thing at all. Holmes stopped writing for DW after Kroll that he did with reluctance as he felt that he had run out of ideas. Contrary to what some JNT haters have said, it wasn't even a case of JNT outright blacklisting old writers. According to Bob Holmes biography, he and JNT were very good friends from before JNT became producer. They were old drinking buddies LOL. Anyway yeah Bob Holmes bore JNT absolutely no ill will over not wanting to use him, even telling JNT when they were in the pub that he was right to get new writers in as he was out of ideas for the show. It was only because Eric Saward practically begged him to return that Holmes did. Even then to be honest whilst Androzani was a classic, I kind of wish Holmes hadn't come back after that as both of his scripts are crap. I DO like The Two Doctors to be clear, but only based on its location, and the performances. It's script is very sloppy. Meanwhile the story they rejected to do it, by a new writer, The First Sontarans is an absolute classic, that ironically uses the Sontarans much more effectively. The writer of said story however said, he didn't even try to push for his story once he found out there was a Robert Holmes script available for the Sontaran one. "I wasn't about to compete with Bob Holmes." Honestly he should have. Sometimes it really is better to move on. Terry Nation meanwhile outright refused to come back despite being asked to do so every single time after Destiny of the Daleks, whilst he also took a 7 year gap between Daleks Masterplan and Planet of the Daleks! Also apart from in an advisory capacity with Barry Letts for one year, basically just to fill JNT in on some things like the Master and help him get used to it. No producer ever returned to the show again like RTD. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 26, 2024 18:22:38 GMT
Hasn't changed that much? What the f*ck are you talking about? You were the primary instigator of everything you've just denounced, Moffat. Is the man really this deluded? Has he gone senile to the point of believing that it's still 2013? How can he of all people say any of this with a straight face? From two Moffat penned episodes. SECRETARY-GENERAL: I have flown here today to speak to the President. I'm told you might be able to help.
BILL: I don't know the President. How would I know the President? I mean, I wouldn't even have voted for him. He's orange.MISSY: The whole city is a machine to turn people into Cybermen. What do you think? Exciting, isn't it? Watching the Cybermen getting started.
DOCTOR: They always get started. They happen everywhere there's people. Mondas, Telos, Earth, Planet 14, Marinus. Like sewage and smartphones and Donald Trump, some things are just inevitable.
Oh he also based a character who was a serial killer rapist in Sherlock on Trump and did an interview in 2017 where he said Trump would destroy the world and openly accused him of being a rapist, whilst promoting Sherlock and DW. Imagine if a popular writer for the BBC in the 60s or 70s said he thought the President was a rapist in an interview to promote a new series of DW LMFAO. In DWM 503, Steven Moffat, the showrunner of Doctor Who from series 5 to 10, answered the question, "What does the Doctor make of Donald Trump's decision to run for President of the United States?" Moffat replied that "although the Doctor normally takes no part in politics, he is disgusted and turbulent with rage" and went on to say that the Doctor has seen a parallel universe in which Trump won the election and the world was plunged into "certain doom".LOL he couldn't be a bigger hypocrite if he tried! What's annoying though is some of the anti sjw DW fans will praise him for this as for some logic defying reason they don't think there was any SJW crap in his era, and that it only began in series 11. Missy was apparently a totally legit version of the Master, no pandering, nothing odd about her? To be fair to Moff though he's right in that DW is kind of the same since he was there. Hmm lets see? Back in 2013 Moffat's work was getting criticised by young millennial fans as sexist because he kept using the same flirty femme fatale stereotype for ALL his female characters across both shows, and for sexualizing his female companions, having the male characters do things like look up the women's skirts, slap them on bums, force kisses on them and for turning the Doctor into a Jack the lad character from a 90s sitcom. There was also a demand for a female Doctor, however a lot of classic era fans didn't want that feeling it would jar, and they were also pissed off with you turning the Doctor into a Jack the Lad too. What do he do in response? I don't know maybe try and write other types of female characters, maybe bring back Romana, make her a popular character with new viewers and then spin her off into her own show to satisfy the need for a female Doctor, give us a Xena/Hercules, Buffy/Angel type set up for the 2010s, maybe NOT write with his dick quite so often and sexualize the female companions to the point where they force themselves on male characters, and maybe make the eccentric, distinguished, popular character actor he's cast as the Doctor a proper old school Doctor who won't slap her on the bum? Everybody wins and it's not like he has to change his writing style that much or even that he has to do this exact type of story or anything. Obviously I'm not saying that you should listen to the critics for absolutely everything, but at times you maybe do have to acknowledge when you are getting too self indulgent and yeah making the female characters into your bad girl fantasies I'd say counts. Nope in response he throws a wobbler at being criticised, and on the one hand changes basically nothing about the actual problems with his writing. Hence why he reuses that River Song template AGAIN for Missy and keeps writing the same laddish crass 90s sitcom jokes "that's how I pick up girls." "Is it wrong I?" Yet he also due to being cowed by the millennial fans for the most shallow reasons, they are young and trendy decides to placate them at the expense of the shows foundations and key characters like the Master, rather than just change some aspects of his own writing, like not making the female characters into his bad girl fantasies. That is EXACTLY what we are seeing in DW today. An arrogant writer who refuses to change ANYTHING about his own style, would rather smash up the foundations of the show like make Davros able bodied than change a thing of his own crap, is so self indulgent he throws in references to his own sexual fetishes and thinks he is being progressive by pandering in the most shallow way to young millennials. It really hasn't changed sadly. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 26, 2024 19:04:54 GMT
It's kind of like the situation with Amazing Spider-Man...they can't get anyone new to write for it and rely on the talents from the late 2000s, all due to their policies and editorial constraints on the character I think it's because the back catalogue, lore continuity, history is so big for DW and Marvel, few writers want to tackle it, except for those who don't care about continuity or doing a genuinely good job and just want to monopolise it and use it for their own careers and know they can exploit brand loyalty to do that. Marvel and DW are in the same position that way actually and for the same reason, all wanting it to be one continuity and timeline. I've said before but nobody ever reads that far LOL. Maybe they will this time if it's at the beginning? Basically DW and Marvel's biggest strength became their biggest weaknesses. The Doctors ability to regenerate, and the fact that Marvel's characters don't age, as they are comic book characters. At first those were great as it allowed them to have longer lives and stories than other characters. However eventually even with those formula's it gets too much as ultimately nothing can run forever. Once the Doctor reaches his 13th life it gets too much to have him magically be given more. It feels like a cheat after so many decades of knowing he will only have 13, and also I think being the Doctor becomes cheap when there are hundreds in the one continuity or potentially billions if he keeps going on forever. Furthermore long running characters stories like the Daleks and Davros and the Cybermen and the Master will become boring if we keep going round and round and undoing them. A classic example of this is the Green Goblin. He's a fantastic character, and was killed off in the perfect story, the night Gwen Stacey died in the mid 70s. That wrapped up all of his arcs, leaving no room or reason to bring him back. However by the time it gets to the 90s, people who grew up with him want their chance at writing a Goblin story, so they have to bring him back, undo that perfect ending, and reduce him to just a crappy, one note villain who can never have as big an impact again, as if he kills another one of Spidey's love interests it will undermine Spider-Man, but if Spider-Man kills him, well he'll get brought back by the next generation. At the same time are future generations not allowed to write stories about this great character? That is unfair and selfish of the original writers, but at the same time where they not to have written the classic story? You see far from what obnoxious smug gits like Critical Drinker and the South Park boys say the floating timeline is what leads to nothing matters, lazy writing, NOT the multiverse formula. Again the multiverse formula is the solution to that. In the 1990s Marvel should have brought all of their stories to an end. By that stage the floating timeline had stretched all credibility, the characters had grown up, so yeah it was time to end it. They should have had Peter and MJ get married, have Venom's redemption stick, etc, and then after it was all done, said "okay every story from now, 1995-2025 will take place in another universe, and when we get to 2025 we can jump universes again. That way we can basically reboot it, bring it into modern times again, not undo decades of story and piss off our existing fanbase, and things can matter in this version as it is not being written with the mindset of it's eternal, IE if we kill a big character off in this, then another generation can use him or her decades down the line, but this version's story won't be undone. They are truly gone forever which also means we'll have to take care when killing characters too. Also it's easier to get new writers as the backstory now isn't 70 years. Also very rarely we might do a story that shows what's happened in the original universe, IE maybe Peter and MJ have a family now?" Similarly like I said DW should do that via alternate sequels. PS I know you don't need the multiverse to reboot these things, and not everything needs a multiverse before you jump down my throat with it Rushy LOL. However in something like DW and Marvel, both of which have obsessive fans who will always try and make all the versions link together and will one day write for them, then the multiverse, which is a subject that exists in them is the lesser of two evils. Just ignoring past continuity is the definition of lazy writing and defeats the whole point of having continuity in the first place, clever attempts to try and rewrite it in universe, lead to things like Terminator Genysis, One More Day and the Clone Saga. Hey though the South Park guys said multiverses are just lazy writing, unlike their jokes about Sarah Jessica Parker being an ugly horse face, which totally wasn't a lazy joke recycled by every lazy hack at the time they made it. Yeah Inferno is a lot more lazily written than that. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 26, 2024 20:50:22 GMT
Hasn't changed that much? What the f*ck are you talking about? You were the primary instigator of everything you've just denounced, Moffat. Is the man really this deluded? Has he gone senile to the point of believing that it's still 2013? How can he of all people say any of this with a straight face? LOL he couldn't be a bigger hypocrite if he tried! What's annoying though is some of the anti sjw DW fans will praise him for this as for some logic defying reason they don't think there was any SJW crap in his era, and that it only began in series 11. Missy was apparently a totally legit version of the Master, no pandering, nothing odd about her?
Oh how right I was. Stumbled on this on my facebook posts. Now I'm not having a go at this guy, obviously I wouldn't name him and I don't want other comments saying he is stupid here as the guy was just posting his opinion (it was in a public group.) So I don't want him to think some manky Scots git is sharing his opinions and laughing at him. However again I just don't get this attitude that the "woke shit" began with Chibbers? Why do these people overlook Missy? Why? That was every bit as bad as what Davies did to Davros. Worse actually, as Davies retcon though utterly pathetic and hypocritical, was at least just surface level. He didn't destroy Davros' actual character, he didn't cast an actor who was woefully miscast in the role. Yet Moffat gets away with it? It's so f*cking annoying. Sir Moffat is right (about the quotes Zarius shared.) This is what Chibnall got absolutely 100 % wrong with his era as show runner (well aside from The Fugative Doctor and a couple of brilliant episodes , esp Jodie' s finale)
Seems liked almost every episode in his tenure, we got some boring and tedious lecture, (on issues I mostly support btw) and the Rosa Parks episode was absolutely wonderful, but by Rassilon's beard, the not so subtle real life political and social issues did hijack stories and episodes that had real potential.
Doctor Who is my all time favourite show and fictional franchise because it's meant to be escapism and take our mind off real life problems
Yes it was done on a semi frequent basis in the classic era, but done with a lot more subtlety.
The clever metaphor of comparing Apartheid with The Marshal and his colonists in The Mutants was done with considering more aplomb than having a Pregnant Man appear for no actual legitimate plot whatsoever.
Ugggggh Moffat gets away with so much. |
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