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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Aug 1, 2024 0:33:32 GMT
I'd take it over something like Hell Bent. I just feel the era had run out of steam by then. I think Journey's End was the end of the era and everything after was some sort of epilogue. |
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Post by rushy on Aug 1, 2024 0:38:42 GMT
I'd take it over something like Hell Bent. I just feel the era had run out of steam by then. I think Journey's End was the end of the era and everything after was some sort of epilogue. Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that. Tennant could've regenerated there and it would've been fine. I just really like the End of Time on its own merit. I love that Wilf is the companion, I love the development of Simm's Master, I love Timothy Dalton's performance, and the Doctor freaking out over the Time Lords coming back. It just hits the spot for me on almost every level. |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 1, 2024 16:09:45 GMT
Can you believe I've almost finished series 5 LOL. I love it so much just had it on non stop no matter what I was doing. I just finished Vincent and the Doctor.
I don't have time for a full review but that truly is one of the most beautiful, poignant, well acted episodes of British tv, as well as one of the most sensitive and thoughtful takes on depression I've ever seen. It's safe to say that New Who was decades ahead of its time in terms of its portrayal of depression. It's hard to believe this episode where the Doctor tries to let Van Gogh know he isn't mad because of his depression was released in the same year as Katie Waissel was almost bullied to suicide and mentally scarred by the British Public and Amy Winehouse was being called a crazy, ugly bitch because of her mental health problems.
Such a shame that new who went from being ahead of the curve to just a member of the herd in a few years.
Series 5 is honestly the absolute gold standard for all of New Who. Only the very best seasons of the classic era exceed it in my opinion like seasons 7 and 13. I don't know why but they were just firing on all cylinders at that point. I'd say it was the healthiest period for DW overall in terms of its creativity and how it was perceived and its place among the public and people since Tom's early years. What a shame it just wasn't to last.
I've said it before I'll say it again Matt in many ways is the Kevin Conroy of the Doctors being the one who combines all the different interpretations together. One area he is certainly vastly superior to Tennant is that he can just fit into a story more. In that Van Gogh episode for instance, if that were Tennant then the whole thing would have to be about him. He'd have to relate to Van Gogh's feelings of loneliness. Matt just fits in like the Doctor should, though at the same time he can do the tortured hero bit when he has too as we'll see in the finale.
Up next The Lodger, which is another fun romp. I must admit not all of the actual stories this year are great sci fi stories, but none are ridiculously bad parodies like the Slitheen, New Earth etc. Even the simplest stories like The Lodger know what their strengths are that Matt can be a one man show and play to that.
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 1, 2024 16:46:02 GMT
Spoke too soon about the Lodger LOL. It's funny I can remember really, really enjoying it when it first aired and a few times on rewatches, but now? It just bored me. It felt like a return to one of RTD's weaker stories, paper thin sci fi concept, more of a soap opera, tedious sappy ending etc. Again it's still entertaining because of Matt, but I think in this case they maybe put too much on his shoulders.
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Aug 2, 2024 2:05:16 GMT
Series 5 is honestly the absolute gold standard for all of New Who. Only the very best seasons of the classic era exceed it in my opinion like seasons 7 and 13. I don't know why but they were just firing on all cylinders at that point. Moffat is an excellent writer when he's at his best. For a painfully brief period, he was even a very good showrunner. What it comes down to is that neither of the factors that led to his downfall were at play in 2010. He hadn't yet worked himself to death and drained his well of inspiration by taking on two flagship BBC shows and a Hollywood movie simultaneously, which is what led to him buggering up the Silence arc so badly in the second half of Series 6. Additionally, the identitarian smear campaign that would destroy his confidence and push him to make the catastrophic decisions he did in the Capaldi era was virtually non-existent at that point. When I rewatch The Time of Angels two-parter or Vincent, it fills me with sadness to remember that it wasn't so long ago that there was authentic, 21st-century Doctor Who being broadcast that I was almost completely happy with. Today the franchise has sunk so low that there is absolutely nothing it could do to win me back as a fan short of cancelation and a hard reboot. |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 2, 2024 12:00:05 GMT
Just finished series 5 and the Christmas Carol episode.
The season 5 finale is quite possibly the biggest case of it started well and then tailed off there has ever been in new who's history.
The first part is one of the absolute best episodes in new who history. 11/10. The cameos this time don't feel pointless, the myriad of monsters are used well despite having little screen time. Amy's confrontation with the Cyberman is ironically the best moment with the monsters in new who in terms of horror at least. The skull dropping out of the mask is gruesome whilst the single Cyberman in an entrapped space harkens back to the claustrophobic atmosphere of the Troughton stories rather than the big spectacle of later Cyber stories. I also like the way the monsters all manipulate the Doctor too. You think it's another insufferable moment of ego porn when they all run away from the Doctors usual whipping it out and measuring it moment with them until the end. The final twist is absolutely fantastic. The Doctor is at the mercy of his worst enemies and we STILL don't know who the real villain of the piece is.
Sadly however in the second part the monsters are mostly written out, and we focus largely on a combination of technobabble and soap opera stuff. The actual plot must finish about 10 mins before the end with the remainder focusing on the companions home life. I remember when it first aired finding it so disappointing, In the 14 years since though I've warmed to the second part. There are some interesting ideas like the lone centurion, and it's great seeing the Doctor be the one who saves the day again rather than his companion LOL. I also do appreciate that Moffat was trying to do a more low key, character based episode than the dumb spectacle of the later Davies finale's, but ultimately I think after building it up so much in the first part to be a spectacle it will always feel like a bit of a disappointment to me.
I'd give the story a 7/10 overall, which is a shame as if it both parts had been like the first then it would be one of the best stories of the revival at least.
A Christmas Carol. Well what can I say, I enjoyed this one. I totally get why people like Rob view it as sappy Disney Who stuff, because it f*cking is. From the message about love, to the people singing to even Catherine Jenkins herself, who I don't mind to be clear. She is lovely and a great singer, but yeah I think she falls into the Felicity Kendall type of female celeb LOL. It's not like they got Paloma Faith to guest star as that character is it? The whole thing is very sappy and twee, but overall I think that works in its favour.
Not every episode can be Pyramids of Mars. DW's format means that sometimes it should dip its toe into lighter and yes even romantic stories like all other genres. This adventure I think does that the best way it could, with the Doctor not being the romantic figure and unlike The Empty Child which is too sappy for words with the "EVERYBODY LIVES" this story doesn't take the easy way out completely in either its ending or even how it redeems the character. You can't undo a lifetime of abuse with just a few happy nights. Matt Smith is on absolute fire in the story too. It plays to all his greatest strengths and overall whilst again I'm not going to say this is how DW should be done all the time, it's still a really enjoyable, imaginative and still very moving in its sappiness.
I'd say it's the best of the Christmas specials apart from The Next Doctor. It still doesn't touch that, but it is lightyears ahead of all the other RTD christmas specials, and probably better than even The Snowmen which is one I've always loved.
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 2, 2024 12:08:57 GMT
Onto series 6 next. I remember this as being a very schizophrenic season compared to 5 in terms of quality. Some absolute classics, some absolute turds like Let's Kill Hitler.
Will be interesting to see how it holds up. Either way though I'm looking forward to more Matt, Karen and Arthur. So glad they didn't kill Rory permanently. A part of me wonders if they wanted to, but they realised what a winning trio they had. I think they're all even better this year round too, as we don't have that awful Amy/Rory/Doctor love triangle. You can tell that was a hang up from the Davies era, they obviously felt they had to toss in.
Thank god it didn't last as it was awful in every way. It made Amy unsympathetic, sexualized her in a bad way. and just didn't vibe with Amy and Matt's chemistry and relationship at all. It's funny because in a way series 5 again feels like the first Tom Baker season in that it's still clinging to some aspects of the previous era, like the Daleks being the main villains essentially, Doctor/Companion romance, even more direct references to the previous era like the Dalek invasion, same way Tom's earlier stories still had UNIT and again Daleks, but by the second season they're confident enough to shake those things off and do their own thing.
(Well sadly in Moff's case as I and Clockwork Ocean have pointed out, he wasn't confident enough to do that for long, and when the early 2010s millennial hipster faux fans latched onto DW and demanded it be more like the RTD from when they were kids, he caved instantly and gave us the Capaldi era. Still at this stage it is refreshing.)
I will say though I am going to miss the Daleks LOL. I totally agree with Moff that they needed a rest after 5 seasons basically of being the main foes. Still I love me some Daleks and knowing I've not got another one for a wee while is sad.
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Aug 2, 2024 14:57:26 GMT
I agree about The Big Bang. I was eleven and even I found it silly at the time. The Pandorica is a wonderfully tense episode with a superb cliffhanger. For a whole week I was wondering how the hell he was going to get out of it. Unfortunately, that's resolved within the first ten minutes and the rest of it is just running from A to B in a museum. The Stone Dalek was a late addition to give it all a bit of drama. I know people like it because it's low-key, but Pandorica set the stage for something epic that never really happened.
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 2, 2024 15:34:00 GMT
I agree about The Big Bang. I was eleven and even I found it silly at the time. The Pandorica is a wonderfully tense episode with a superb cliffhanger. For a whole week I was wondering how the hell he was going to get out of it. Unfortunately, that's resolved within the first ten minutes and the rest of it is just running from A to B in a museum. The Stone Dalek was a late addition to give it all a bit of drama. I know people like it because it's low-key, but Pandorica set the stage for something epic that never really happened. I can't imagine how much more frustrating it must have been for a little kid. It must have seemed like the most exciting thing in the world to see all those villains together and then knowing they'd all collectively have about 2 mins of screen time must have been crushing haha. Sadly on my season 6 rewatch I've noticed that I have lost the disc for the first three episodes so I'll have to skip them. I didn't want to as I wanted to see the two part opener again in particular, but alas damn my student day carelessness which was when I last watched them LOL. I started from disc 2 and I hate to say this but I LOVED the Doctors Wife. I mean yes in hindsight it sent us down a very bad path re the gender nonsense (I'm even more bitter to learn that the guy who started ALL of it Neil Gaiman was only doing so to cover up his own creeper tendencies. Also the fact that it was written by that creep is even more annoying.) Still separating it from that and the fact it is still infantile in places like the TARDIS being called sexy, it's a really good story and fun romp. Michael Sheen is absolutely fantastic as is Suranne Jones who I'm a huge fan of. She's so versatile and has always been completely different in everything I've ever seen her in. No wonder she became a national treasure. I'm in the middle of the flesh people two parter which is honestly really good at all. During this two parter I'd say the line between old and new who was mostly gone. I'm not saying the Flesh two parter is an all time classic story. It's a fairly common idea in sci fi, but it's fun enough. However it's really indistinguishable from a classic era story in that. The Doctor is completely in character. No mopeyness, completely alien, professorial, played by a naturally eccentric actor, compassionate, but also ruthless when he needs to be. The focus is entirely on sci fi concepts, no shallow identity politics, tedious soap opera bullshit. It's a more thoughtful story that takes its time to build up, focuses on the sci fi concepts it's introduced, and doesn't revel in sentimentality and is quite claustrophobic in places. All that's really needed is a better story in this style and that would be that. DW would have been back properly. Of course we all know that this wasn't how all the stories in the Matt era were made. I still have Let's Kill Hitler to come and the awful finale. Still there are a lot more stories like this such as Amy's Choice coming up this year all of a similar style. GAAAH it just gets me so annoyed to think that the stage had been set for proper 21st century who. f*ck Moffat and f*ck the stupid hipster millennial fans who used DW to launch their own media careers in the early 2010s. Ripped it from our hands chewed it up and shat it out, not spat shat, at the same time they had a gut infection that's how f*cked up it became. |
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Post by rushy on Aug 2, 2024 15:35:43 GMT
I'm very nostalgic for The Big Bang. It was the first episode I ever saw. Fond memories of Matt Smith as the madcap professor in the fez and the mop. Can't ever stop loving it.
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Post by iank on Aug 2, 2024 21:04:18 GMT
I'll take it over any of RTD's finales any day of the week.
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Aug 3, 2024 23:15:56 GMT
I'm in the middle of the flesh people two parter which is honestly really good at all. During this two parter I'd say the line between old and new who was mostly gone. I'm not saying the Flesh two parter is an all time classic story. It's a fairly common idea in sci fi, but it's fun enough. However it's really indistinguishable from a classic era story in that. The Doctor is completely in character. No mopeyness, completely alien, professorial, played by a naturally eccentric actor, compassionate, but also ruthless when he needs to be. The focus is entirely on sci fi concepts, no shallow identity politics, tedious soap opera bullshit. It's a more thoughtful story that takes its time to build up, focuses on the sci fi concepts it's introduced, and doesn't revel in sentimentality and is quite claustrophobic in places. I agree. Not a classic, but a perfectly respectable slice of conceptual sci-fi. Yet for some reason the consensus on places like Gallifrey Base and Reddit seems to be that it's among the very worst things NuWho ever did. I can't even begin to understand where the mainstream fandom is coming from sometimes. The abominable, story-breaking shite that gets praised and the entirely decent stuff that gets disparaged in the harshest possible terms... none of it makes any sense. |
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Post by rushy on Aug 3, 2024 23:33:22 GMT
People hate the Flesh two-parter?
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Post by iank on Aug 3, 2024 23:35:28 GMT
I'm more depressed by the amount of "reactors" on YT who find the Under the Lake 2 parter "boring". One of the closest to real Who stories we got in the Capaldi era but they'd rather go for the godawful Dalek ones or Death in Heaven shit.
We really are not fans of the same thing at this point, and its honestly sad as f*ck.
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Post by rushy on Aug 3, 2024 23:43:02 GMT
I thought Under the Lake was pretty good (aside from the shit comedy with the cue cards), but Before the Flood wasted it. Before the Flood's only good scene was Capaldi talking about the bootstrap paradox to the audience.
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