Which stories have you watched lately?

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Jul 28, 2024 15:25:45 GMT burrunjor said:

Well made my way further into series 4 today. 

The Sontaran two parter. Overall a great little romp. I'd go as far as to say that this story handles the Sontarans better than any other revival story does a classic era villain. That's not to say it's the best story overall. Dalek for instance is probably a more intense, well made thriller, whilst again Utopia is a much more imaginative script. However in Dalek as I've said before I don't like the way the Dalek is made sympathetic, whilst the Master is hardly in Utopia, but this adventure is both brilliant and really gets the Sontarans. In fact dare I say this is the best use of the Sontarans since The Time Warrior. 

I like the Sontaran Experiment but it's maybe wrapped up a bit too quickly and easily, whilst Invasion of Time is an absolute ordeal to get through and in The Two Doctors they are reduced to laughing stocks, killed off unceremoniously half way through. Here however they are made into a truly formidable force, clever, ruthless, and the story really plays on what makes the Sontarans interesting via their insane lust for war, even just in little bits like the Sontaran relishing in his own death. It also plays on the Sontarans potential for comedy, which lets be honest was always there. Not because the design is silly, but because Bob Holmes himself was very witty and funny as a writer and did add a bit of the colonial blimp into the Sontarans as they were meant to be a satire on the military remember. Part of why I LOVE the Time Warrior so much is the banter between Linx and Irongron and we see that here. However unlike Strax or the Chibnall era or even later classic stories like Invasion of Time that did take it too far and made them jokes, here it is more like the Time Warrior in that the comedy is very black, like the Sontaran being upset when Luke doesn't bring his friends as they have now lost their target practice or his line about the bravery of idiots LOL. Even the jokes that are had at their expense like the Doctor changing the channel don't undermine them, they just poke fun at how rigid they are. 

Christopher Ryan, Mike himself is fantastic as Starr. Easily the best Sontaran since Lindsay himself. He has the right authority, arrogance and a strong commanding voice for it. I'm baffled they didn't use him more often. To be clear I do like the guy who plays Strax too, but I really wish Ryan had made a few more appearances. A Sontaran story set in Victorian England where Strax has to choose between his people and his new friends with Ryan playing the commander was a real missed opportunity. It's funny to think Ryan only got the gig in The Young Ones by accident really and look at the career it gave him. Bottom, New Statesman, Ab Fab, One Foot In The Grave, both old and New Who, not a bad resume of cult series. (Though it must be said New Who used him better than old Who. Whilst he's very good in it, I can't stand his old who story.)

Overall this is probably the third best Sontaran story across all mediums, with the first being The Time Warrior, second being The First Sontarans. In those three adventures they are easily top tier monsters. 

Also a great return for Martha. It's nice to see her independent of the Doctor, and her and Donna have good chemistry. I actually like Donna more when she's with Martha. Whilst she's maybe pushed to the side a bit too much for my liking in all fairness she isn't the main companion anymore, and I like how her compassion to her clone saves the day. Also evil Martha is sexy as f*ck. I'd say this is the hottest Martha ever looked. Billie's hottest episode is Dalek, whilst Jenna's is Journey to the Centre of The Tardis incidentally LOL. 

The only problem with the Sontaran two parter is sadly David Tennant himself, well the Tenth Doctor. In some scenes he's great like the first confrontation with the Sontaran, but in others he got on my tits. Remember I actually do like him in this part which I don't regard as the classic era Doctor, but a more romantic, tortured hero. Here however his constant being an asshole to the soldiers and his rank hypocrisy over guns really annoyed me. Also he's such a f*cking arsehole in the climax. He has to go and give the Sontarans a chance? He knows they'd never flee in a million years and they are an invading force anyway who are actively on the attack so why bother showing them mercy at the expense of his own life? FFS I could run through the hundreds of times even in New Who alone where he doesn't give the bad guy a chance to flee because he knows that would be a stupid thing to do. Did he warn the Cybermen and Dalek armies he was going to suck them into the void? 

Then there's also the fact that he crapped out of it like a big pussy. I get that they wanted Luke to redeem himself and that was fine, but they could have just had it there was no timer on the bomb the Doctor made. I think ironically despite this being the best performing series in terms of viewers, this is when fandom started to turn against the Tenth Doctor because where as before his faults felt like part of his character, here it just feels like sloppy writing and the author trying to get their anti gun views through no matter how stupid and hypocritical they look coming from this character. At times I wanted the Tenth Doctor to piss off and Donna and Martha to take over as leads LOL. 

I also thought the music when the Doctor clears the sky was a bit too much. Also having that female commander kiss the UNIT captain made me laugh because it's quite possibly the biggest cliche of all time when a battle is won to have someone finally kiss the person they like to cheesy music. That said it's usually a guy doing it to a woman unlike this, and she then slaps him only for them to both embrace. (The Simpsons even took the piss out of that cliche in Bart the General when they beat Nelson.) I don't know if they were trying to take the piss out of it here too, but it felt a bit too much. In a comedy you know it's a spoof but in this it just looks like "oh my god they actually did that." 

The Doctors Daughter, well this isn't as bad as I thought. The actual plot is not bad. It's fairly bog standard Star Trek stuff, but done well. Martha was maybe a bit wasted to be honest as I can't think of anything big she did to the plot and she spent most of it separated from the Doctor and Donna which sucked. Also again the Tenth Doctors attitude to his daughter being a soldier really pissed me off. What is it with New Who and this absolute bullshit that the Doctor hates soldiers? Where did that come from? It was never a part of Old Who? Do they not know who the Brig is? He really got on my absolute tits in this episode. Everything he did was hypocritical from the infamous I never would speech, to getting angry at Jenny punching a guard to help them escape and sayng she's not his daughter because of it (again have these people seen the Pertwee era? Hell all the Doctors have done punched and beaten up badguys or even just guards if they had too, from Hartnell smashing his stick over a guys head in the Time Meddler, to Troughton throwing chemicals in an Ice Warriors face, Tom meanwhile was never done hitting guards, tripping them up with his scarf, clunking their heads together, Davison beat up a few people in The Visitation, Colin stomped on a cops head in Attack, McCoy knocked guys out with his fingers in Survival, Eccelston smashed a guys head into a wall in Parting of The Ways, even Ten inch himself in the previous story clobbered a Sontaran with a Tennis ball!) Then there's his look up genocide and you'll see a picture of me that says over my dead body. 

Ehm let's look at New Who alone. Genocided both the Daleks and the Cybermen as far as he knew in Doomsday at the same time and did it with a big smile on his face "Pullen em all in." The Racnoss, the Carrionites, the Toclafane that he left trapped at the end of the universe, the Pyrovales etc. He LOVES a bit of genocide. Of course you could say I'm being pedantic as in all cases he had no choice, whilst the villain in this does just want to kill the Hath off, but still the way it's said along with everything else just makes him come over as an annoying, egocentric hypocrite who is too hard on Jenny, a poor confused woman who has no idea what she should do, and has been turned on by her people. 

The Unicorn and the Wasp, probably my least favourite episode of series 4. It's absolutely dire. The twist of the guy's a giant wasp makes it feel like a parody of DW and the way it kisses Agatha Christie's arse is cringe inducing. It looks like fanfic writing by a fanboy of Agatha Christie's works. 

Still at least there's a run of a few good episodes to go, up until Journey's End in fact which is a hot mess. Onwards and upwards. 

I think Billie is slightly hotter in New Earth personally. She also looks great in Aliens of London. I sometimes forget just how attractive Billie Piper is. Whether or not she's hotter than Martha I'm not quite certain. Like you, I do like evil Martha. I like when she's dripping with goo lol

[rushy]

Martha never did much for me. But before anyone accuses me of racism, I thought Bill Potts was very cute. Shame I'm not her type lol.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Jul 28, 2024 18:16:05 GMT rushy said:

Martha never did much for me. But before anyone accuses me of racism, I thought Bill Potts was very cute. Shame I'm not her type lol.

No sane person will accuse you of that. Not finding a black woman attractive (although come on dude, she's hot) isn't racism. Everyone has their own preferences.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

I never thought that of Bill myself. She was always just a nice person to me which was a refreshing change from Capaldi era Clara.

[rushy]

Jul 28, 2024 18:25:11 GMT Cherry Pepsi Maxil said:

I never thought that of Bill myself. She was always just a nice person to me which was a refreshing change from Capaldi era Clara.

She was very real. Kinda weird in the natural way most people are, but relaxed, vibrant, wide-eyed. That sort of openness is attractive. 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Jul 27, 2024 16:29:17 GMT rushy said:

Yvonne being the star of Torchwood in the audios is very funny. They have f*ck all else left to market.

Politics and that aside, I always liked her performance in the story. She has a good screen presence and she's also pretty attractive. I think they killed her off too soon in Doomsday.

[burrunjor]

Well over the last few days I watched a lot of stories and I am now ready for The End of Time. I'll only talk about the ones I want to here.

Midnight: By far and away Russell T Davies' best script, not just for who but possibly in his entire career. It's a damn shame that he seemed to be at his absolute peak as a writer just before he left. This is a brilliant character study, one of Tennant's best performances, a brilliant deconstruction of the Doctors usual annoying habit of coming in and everybody trusting him (in both old and new who) and a truly terrifying almost supernatural mystery all in one. The midnight entity is one of the best monsters in the series, proving sometimes why less is more. We never even see it, but it's entirely through the background and the atmosphere that is built up that makes it so terrifying and the fact that we never even come close to finding out what it is.

The Stolen Earth/Journey's End. LOL this is a story of great highs and some of the worst lows in Who history.

Good points, the Daleks and Davros are fantastic in every way. Julian Bleach is absolutely amazing in the role, and his interactions with Sarah and the Doctor are particularly strong. I also like the way this story balances the Daleks and Davros being really the only one to do so since Genesis. The Daleks aren't just Davros' stooges like in Revelation, but he's not just pushed to the background either like in Remembrance or Resurrection where barring his kickass confrontation with the Doctor he doesn't do much in the story. Here the Daleks and Davros are working together and need each other and both get plenty of screen time and wonderful interactions with the Doctor like when the red Dalek tortures the Doctor and taunts him about his emotions. Also I think this story explores the dynamic between them to a greater extent than others. Again it's not just he is their commander, there's an interesting power struggle between the Dalek Supreme and Davros where both think they are in command, both sneer at each other, yet both also do have a degree of respect.

Dalek Caan's arc also comes to a brilliant end. On the one hand he kind of gets his just deserts, in that the new Daleks treatment of him is exactly like how he treated Dalek Sec. Like Sec he was the potential savior of his people, but they turned on him and locked him up because of their own disgusting prejudiced nature. However unlike Sec, Caan knows that the Daleks are beyond help and so he wisely destroys them. In a way he also comes full circle and finally thinks like how the enemy thinks too.

The Daleks have also never seemed more menacing. For the first time they manage to kill a supporting character and cause a regeneration directly. I also personally love seeing them invade modern earth. We finally see a full scale Dalek invasion of the modern world, which incredibly enough we've never seen on screen before. Dalek Invasion took place after the battle, all other classic era Dalek adventures took place in remote areas on earth like the country side in Day, or quiet streets in 60s London. Even in new who Parting of The Ways took place in Space, in Doomsday they are only around for a few minutes, but here we get to see them invade and take over the planet and it's really effective, particularly the scene where they slaughter the young family.

I know some people will say it hindered future stories, but honestly I've got zero problem with that. I think there was a wealth of potential stories to have been exploited with the Dalek invasion. It could have been a brilliant and iconic bit of lore, that rippled on for years. Hell we could have even seen how a future companion's life was changed by it, maybe one companion was a former soldier who fled during the Dalek attack and is shamed as a coward for it in the media and wants to make up for it? Maybe some Dalek tech is left over which leads to problems, maybe there's a story where humans become the hostile invaders for another alien race because of their terror of the Daleks. Waters of Mars alone showed the great potential in that being a bit of lore with Adeliade Brooke. Her flashback is ironically one of the most effective Dalek moments in all of who. Unlike in Journey's End where they're scary but still seem like comic book baddies our hero must fight, when we see one flying above through a child's eyes and not the Doctor, they seem so huge and powerful. God damn Moffat for getting rid of it in the most lazy way possible because he bought into Paul Cornell's horse shit that viewers are afraid of continuity.  

Sadly however whilst the Daleks are done brilliantly the same cannot be said of any of its leads. Rose is just a clingy ex and the resolution with Handy undoes all the pathos and tragedy of her first exit, whilst at the same time it doesn't satisfy actual Doctor/Rose fans as they don't get together. Martha and Sarah meanwhile might be the worst served. The latter is turned into a whimpering, simpering moron who drives a car through a Dalek infested London and then cries and blubs "I'm sorrrrrry eeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiii". I hate to say that bit in the cliff hanger is atrocious acting from Lis Sladen. Plays to all her weakness as an actress. She is at her best when being sarcy, sassy and funny like in School Reunion and Time Warrior. Sadly she always overdid the being scared bit and this is almost on a par with WHAAAATTT'S HAAAPPPPENNNEEEED! Martha meanwhile is turned into a psychopath. First off am I to believe the woman who walked the earth for a year is willing to blow it up almost as a first resort? It makes me laugh in Last of the Time Lords they make a big deal about "you don't look like a killer" and "she wouldn't have ever collected the gun to shoot the Master, as if she'd kill him." Yet here she is willing to kill everybody on earth? What the f*ck happened in that year since she travelled with the Doctor? The whole reason we loved Martha was her unbelievable kindness, which they captured even in series 4 like when she comforts her clone and is able to save the day through that. To top it all off she doesn't do anything in the final battle against the Daleks, except push one that's already malfunctioning two feet. Also I think it's hilarious how her story is resolved, the Doctor just tells her to get rid of that key in the most casual way possible, no shock that she just tried to kill 7 billion people LOL. Terrible, terrible. 

Donna meanwhile I've been over becomes the ultimate Mary Sue in this story, undermining the Doctor who as per usual does bugger all to save the day, whilst his companion takes centre stage. The only characters that come out of it reasonably well are Mickey, Jackie and Jack. John Barrowman plays the character with the usual likable gusto and gets a few badass moments like blasting some Daleks, whilst Jackie gets to do a lot more than usual and the bit where she comforts the girl who is about to be exterminated is nice. 

Still even then all three of them hardly get to do much it must be said. Like everyone else they are all basically brought back so they can be undermined compared to the wonderful Donna and stand at the back and applaud Donna for being so much better than the rest of them. It must be said that RTD quite frankly sucks at writing crossover stories. It's funny because more than any other writer he is obsessed with doing crossovers, but sadly every single time he just simply can't juggle all these characters together. He always pushes them to the back whether that's Jack in Last of the Time Lords or pretty much everybody here. Ironically whilst I'd never have wanted to see Rose again after series 2 I actually think he reunion with the Doctor was kind of wasted as it wasn't the focus of the story. It was just one of many threads that there wasn't enough time to devote too, making you wonder why she was brought back in the first place. 

Also it must be said the towing of the earth scene has to be one of the most overblown, stupid and cheesy moments in the shows history. It gets so ridiculous Freema Agyeman actually looks at the camera and laughs at one point. Who can blame her? 

 

I'm honestly not sure how to rate Journey's End as like I said the Dalek fan in me loves it and I think with a lot of tinkering it could have been a classic, but yeah it's too much of a hot mess in places. 

The Next Doctor: Absolute classic. By far and away the best Christmas special. Really great tight story, Mercy Hatrigan is a brilliant antagonist, being one of the few examples of New Who using one of the classic eras most beloved tropes in Dalek and Cybermen stories of having a devious, sly human work with the Daleks or the Cybermen like Cleeg, Tobais Vaughan, Lytton, etc. Always love that trope and Mercy is one of the most three dimensional and tragic examples. We're never told exactly what it was that damaged her to such an extent, whether it was just a lifetime of poverty, or perhaps given her treatment of the sleazy elites something sexual, but it's enough to make you almost root for her at times when she's getting her revenge and the way the Cybermen who she sees as her knights ultimately end up exploiting her in a similar fashion of violating her in a way just makes the betrayal all the more horrifying than usual.

I'm not overly keen on her taking control of the Cybermen. I understand that they didn't want to waste the actress by writing her out before the finale by just making her a drone as she really was excellent and her final showdown with Tennant is all the more effective because she still has a personality. Also it is a cool new twist on the idea that the devious human gets the better of the monster for a change, but I don't know after the drubbing the Cybermen got in Doomsday, and given how big the Daleks have been since it sadly felt like just another way for them to be undermined. Apart from that bit in the end though the Cybermen do make a strong return here. They seem menacing, have a personal stake with Jackson, are ruthless and there are also some really cool moments of direction too like the massacre in the snowy graveyard and the two new variants are among the best. The Cyber Shades are such a brilliant idea and quite frankly why they haven't been reused I don't know why? I much prefer them to the Cybermats. I also LOVED the Cyber King. Yes it's ridiculous, but I don't care. I love Kaiju monsters and the Cyberking is one of the best I've ever seen in a tv show. 

Also shout out to Jackson Lake. David Morrisey is f*cking amazing in the role. So damn likable from the start and he and Tennant have just the best chemistry. I also really liked Jackson's temporary companion Rosita. She was really sexy and again had great chemistry with Jackson. I'd like to think despite the prejudices of the time he married her in the end. 

The Planet of the Dead: Really great fun little adventure that's often overlooked. Lady Christina is so f*cking sexy and cool. The Doctor was f*cking insane to turn her down. God I wanted to punch him there LOL. There's not much depth to the story it must be said. It's just really good fun, but unlike say the Slitheen two parter it's not a parody of the show. Indeed it actually does feel more like an updated Williams era type romp, with a story that's a bit of fun but still has a good sci fi concept at the heart of it.

I will say though I'm baffled that Rob never rubbed it in Rani's face that Planet of the Dead is such a Primeval rip off. I mean Jesus Christ RTD was trying to cash in on Primeval at the time clearly. Not that there is anything wrong with that as everybody takes from everybody else. The Pertwee era similarly took a lot from Star Trek TOS when it aired beside it, but yeah you can tell this is a Primeval flitch, with a big portal opening up in modern day that leads to a desert filled with man eating monsters that come through, a secret government organisation have to find a way to close it, and there's an argument about whether we should close it or leave our friends on the other side. FFS that's the plot of about 10 or 15 episodes of Primeval I've just described LOL. 

Really that was an awesome time for sci fi and fantasy on mainstream British tv. Primeval at its peak, New Who at its peak and Merlin and Being human had just begun. What a shame that today it's all dreary murder mystery shows set in dismal little towns. 

Waters of Mars: WOW just WOW. One of the most genuinely scary and thoughtful who stories of the decade. The Flood are a terrifying creation and the scene where the woman is cornered by them and watches a recording of her daughter before being consumed is one of the most horrifying moments in the shows history. I also love Captain Brooke too. To be honest I'd say she is actually the best major female companion of the revival. 

I'm not saying the makers of the revival are misogynists, but they definitely tended to write the female characters as well basically wanting the Doctors dick most of the time. Even Kate Lethbridge Stewart there's an element of that in the RTD era. Meanwhile Adelaide is a genuinely strong, Ellen Ripleyesque who is not afraid to show her vulnerable side like when she begs the Doctor for help, but ultimately faces the end with greater courage than even the Doctor. 

Well onto The End of Time next. Sorry Rushy but I remember this as being a story I grew less fond of on rewatches to the point where I thought it was a lot of self indulgent, dreary horse shit. We'll see if after ten years I feel the same. 

Who the f*ck is John Simm?

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Jul 30, 2024 13:55:25 GMT burrunjor said:

Well over the last few days I watched a lot of stories and I am now ready for The End of Time. I'll only talk about the ones I want to here.

Midnight: By far and away Russell T Davies' best script, not just for who but possibly in his entire career. It's a damn shame that he seemed to be at his absolute peak as a writer just before he left. This is a brilliant character study, one of Tennant's best performances, a brilliant deconstruction of the Doctors usual annoying habit of coming in and everybody trusting him (in both old and new who) and a truly terrifying almost supernatural mystery all in one. The midnight entity is one of the best monsters in the series, proving sometimes why less is more. We never even see it, but it's entirely through the background and the atmosphere that is built up that makes it so terrifying and the fact that we never even come close to finding out what it is.

The Stolen Earth/Journey's End. LOL this is a story of great highs and some of the worst lows in Who history.

Good points, the Daleks and Davros are fantastic in every way. Julian Bleach is absolutely amazing in the role, and his interactions with Sarah and the Doctor are particularly strong. I also like the way this story balances the Daleks and Davros being really the only one to do so since Genesis. The Daleks aren't just Davros' stooges like in Revelation, but he's not just pushed to the background either like in Remembrance or Resurrection where barring his kickass confrontation with the Doctor he doesn't do much in the story. Here the Daleks and Davros are working together and need each other and both get plenty of screen time and wonderful interactions with the Doctor like when the red Dalek tortures the Doctor and taunts him about his emotions. Also I think this story explores the dynamic between them to a greater extent than others. Again it's not just he is their commander, there's an interesting power struggle between the Dalek Supreme and Davros where both think they are in command, both sneer at each other, yet both also do have a degree of respect.

Dalek Caan's arc also comes to a brilliant end. On the one hand he kind of gets his just deserts, in that the new Daleks treatment of him is exactly like how he treated Dalek Sec. Like Sec he was the potential savior of his people, but they turned on him and locked him up because of their own disgusting prejudiced nature. However unlike Sec, Caan knows that the Daleks are beyond help and so he wisely destroys them. In a way he also comes full circle and finally thinks like how the enemy thinks too.

The Daleks have also never seemed more menacing. For the first time they manage to kill a supporting character and cause a regeneration directly. I also personally love seeing them invade modern earth. We finally see a full scale Dalek invasion of the modern world, which incredibly enough we've never seen on screen before. Dalek Invasion took place after the battle, all other classic era Dalek adventures took place in remote areas on earth like the country side in Day, or quiet streets in 60s London. Even in new who Parting of The Ways took place in Space, in Doomsday they are only around for a few minutes, but here we get to see them invade and take over the planet and it's really effective, particularly the scene where they slaughter the young family.

I know some people will say it hindered future stories, but honestly I've got zero problem with that. I think there was a wealth of potential stories to have been exploited with the Dalek invasion. It could have been a brilliant and iconic bit of lore, that rippled on for years. Hell we could have even seen how a future companion's life was changed by it, maybe one companion was a former soldier who fled during the Dalek attack and is shamed as a coward for it in the media and wants to make up for it? Maybe some Dalek tech is left over which leads to problems, maybe there's a story where humans become the hostile invaders for another alien race because of their terror of the Daleks. Waters of Mars alone showed the great potential in that being a bit of lore with Adeliade Brooke. Her flashback is ironically one of the most effective Dalek moments in all of who. Unlike in Journey's End where they're scary but still seem like comic book baddies our hero must fight, when we see one flying above through a child's eyes and not the Doctor, they seem so huge and powerful. God damn Moffat for getting rid of it in the most lazy way possible because he bought into Paul Cornell's horse shit that viewers are afraid of continuity.  

Sadly however whilst the Daleks are done brilliantly the same cannot be said of any of its leads. Rose is just a clingy ex and the resolution with Handy undoes all the pathos and tragedy of her first exit, whilst at the same time it doesn't satisfy actual Doctor/Rose fans as they don't get together. Martha and Sarah meanwhile might be the worst served. The latter is turned into a whimpering, simpering moron who drives a car through a Dalek infested London and then cries and blubs "I'm sorrrrrry eeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiii". I hate to say that bit in the cliff hanger is atrocious acting from Lis Sladen. Plays to all her weakness as an actress. She is at her best when being sarcy, sassy and funny like in School Reunion and Time Warrior. Sadly she always overdid the being scared bit and this is almost on a par with WHAAAATTT'S HAAAPPPPENNNEEEED! Martha meanwhile is turned into a psychopath. First off am I to believe the woman who walked the earth for a year is willing to blow it up almost as a first resort? It makes me laugh in Last of the Time Lords they make a big deal about "you don't look like a killer" and "she wouldn't have ever collected the gun to shoot the Master, as if she'd kill him." Yet here she is willing to kill everybody on earth? What the f*ck happened in that year since she travelled with the Doctor? The whole reason we loved Martha was her unbelievable kindness, which they captured even in series 4 like when she comforts her clone and is able to save the day through that. To top it all off she doesn't do anything in the final battle against the Daleks, except push one that's already malfunctioning two feet. Also I think it's hilarious how her story is resolved, the Doctor just tells her to get rid of that key in the most casual way possible, no shock that she just tried to kill 7 billion people LOL. Terrible, terrible. 

Donna meanwhile I've been over becomes the ultimate Mary Sue in this story, undermining the Doctor who as per usual does bugger all to save the day, whilst his companion takes centre stage. The only characters that come out of it reasonably well are Mickey, Jackie and Jack. John Barrowman plays the character with the usual likable gusto and gets a few badass moments like blasting some Daleks, whilst Jackie gets to do a lot more than usual and the bit where she comforts the girl who is about to be exterminated is nice. 

Still even then all three of them hardly get to do much it must be said. Like everyone else they are all basically brought back so they can be undermined compared to the wonderful Donna and stand at the back and applaud Donna for being so much better than the rest of them. It must be said that RTD quite frankly sucks at writing crossover stories. It's funny because more than any other writer he is obsessed with doing crossovers, but sadly every single time he just simply can't juggle all these characters together. He always pushes them to the back whether that's Jack in Last of the Time Lords or pretty much everybody here. Ironically whilst I'd never have wanted to see Rose again after series 2 I actually think he reunion with the Doctor was kind of wasted as it wasn't the focus of the story. It was just one of many threads that there wasn't enough time to devote too, making you wonder why she was brought back in the first place. 

Also it must be said the towing of the earth scene has to be one of the most overblown, stupid and cheesy moments in the shows history. It gets so ridiculous Freema Agyeman actually looks at the camera and laughs at one point. Who can blame her? 

 

I'm honestly not sure how to rate Journey's End as like I said the Dalek fan in me loves it and I think with a lot of tinkering it could have been a classic, but yeah it's too much of a hot mess in places. 

The Next Doctor: Absolute classic. By far and away the best Christmas special. Really great tight story, Mercy Hatrigan is a brilliant antagonist, being one of the few examples of New Who using one of the classic eras most beloved tropes in Dalek and Cybermen stories of having a devious, sly human work with the Daleks or the Cybermen like Cleeg, Tobais Vaughan, Lytton, etc. Always love that trope and Mercy is one of the most three dimensional and tragic examples. We're never told exactly what it was that damaged her to such an extent, whether it was just a lifetime of poverty, or perhaps given her treatment of the sleazy elites something sexual, but it's enough to make you almost root for her at times when she's getting her revenge and the way the Cybermen who she sees as her knights ultimately end up exploiting her in a similar fashion of violating her in a way just makes the betrayal all the more horrifying than usual.

I'm not overly keen on her taking control of the Cybermen. I understand that they didn't want to waste the actress by writing her out before the finale by just making her a drone as she really was excellent and her final showdown with Tennant is all the more effective because she still has a personality. Also it is a cool new twist on the idea that the devious human gets the better of the monster for a change, but I don't know after the drubbing the Cybermen got in Doomsday, and given how big the Daleks have been since it sadly felt like just another way for them to be undermined. Apart from that bit in the end though the Cybermen do make a strong return here. They seem menacing, have a personal stake with Jackson, are ruthless and there are also some really cool moments of direction too like the massacre in the snowy graveyard and the two new variants are among the best. The Cyber Shades are such a brilliant idea and quite frankly why they haven't been reused I don't know why? I much prefer them to the Cybermats. I also LOVED the Cyber King. Yes it's ridiculous, but I don't care. I love Kaiju monsters and the Cyberking is one of the best I've ever seen in a tv show. 

Also shout out to Jackson Lake. David Morrisey is f*cking amazing in the role. So damn likable from the start and he and Tennant have just the best chemistry. I also really liked Jackson's temporary companion Rosita. She was really sexy and again had great chemistry with Jackson. I'd like to think despite the prejudices of the time he married her in the end. 

The Planet of the Dead: Really great fun little adventure that's often overlooked. Lady Christina is so f*cking sexy and cool. The Doctor was f*cking insane to turn her down. God I wanted to punch him there LOL. There's not much depth to the story it must be said. It's just really good fun, but unlike say the Slitheen two parter it's not a parody of the show. Indeed it actually does feel more like an updated Williams era type romp, with a story that's a bit of fun but still has a good sci fi concept at the heart of it.

I will say though I'm baffled that Rob never rubbed it in Rani's face that Planet of the Dead is such a Primeval rip off. I mean Jesus Christ RTD was trying to cash in on Primeval at the time clearly. Not that there is anything wrong with that as everybody takes from everybody else. The Pertwee era similarly took a lot from Star Trek TOS when it aired beside it, but yeah you can tell this is a Primeval flitch, with a big portal opening up in modern day that leads to a desert filled with man eating monsters that come through, a secret government organisation have to find a way to close it, and there's an argument about whether we should close it or leave our friends on the other side. FFS that's the plot of about 10 or 15 episodes of Primeval I've just described LOL. 

Really that was an awesome time for sci fi and fantasy on mainstream British tv. Primeval at its peak, New Who at its peak and Merlin and Being human had just begun. What a shame that today it's all dreary murder mystery shows set in dismal little towns. 

Waters of Mars: WOW just WOW. One of the most genuinely scary and thoughtful who stories of the decade. The Flood are a terrifying creation and the scene where the woman is cornered by them and watches a recording of her daughter before being consumed is one of the most horrifying moments in the shows history. I also love Captain Brooke too. To be honest I'd say she is actually the best major female companion of the revival. 

I'm not saying the makers of the revival are misogynists, but they definitely tended to write the female characters as well basically wanting the Doctors dick most of the time. Even Kate Lethbridge Stewart there's an element of that in the RTD era. Meanwhile Adelaide is a genuinely strong, Ellen Ripleyesque who is not afraid to show her vulnerable side like when she begs the Doctor for help, but ultimately faces the end with greater courage than even the Doctor. 

Well onto The End of Time next. Sorry Rushy but I remember this as being a story I grew less fond of on rewatches to the point where I thought it was a lot of self indulgent, dreary horse shit. We'll see if after ten years I feel the same. 

Who the f*ck is John Simm?

I agree about Stolen Earth/Journey's End. Russell is good at building things up, but he falls short in resolving it. 

You're also bang on about The Next Doctor. Cybermen in Victorian London during Christmas? Count me in! 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Please don't crap on End of Time. Rushy will track you down and cut you into little pieces if you do.

[rushy]

While you're still alive.

[iank]

It's shit.

[rushy]

It's THE shit!

[burrunjor]

Jul 30, 2024 14:30:16 GMT rushy said:

While you're still alive.

You realise that if you were Famke Janssen or Claire Stansfield threatening to do that to me I'd be so turned on right now? 

Anyway sorry Rushy but it was largely bollocks. The Time Lord stuff was okay I suppose, and Timothy Dalton really lent the whole thing a lot of gravitas and I still like the resolution to the Masters story arc (really I can understand fans of Simm despising Missy as she completely undid his ending, threw away his story arc and then reduced him to a joke when he did come back. If you could go from Simm to Dhawan then the new who Master would be quite a cool villain in his own right, but sadly by the time Dhawan shows up the Doctor has been permanently vandalized LOL.) Still the Time Lords story arc was resolved too quickly and the ending was so self indulgent with the Doctor visiting all his companions. When even I'm not please to see Freema Agyeman you know you f*cked up. At the very least it wasn't as boring as I thought and I liked the female Cactus woman. She was funny and likable.

The biggest problem with it is still that it's a bad combination of ridiculous campiness, but unlike say Smith and Jones that knows it's just a romp and has fun with it, this is also dreary and miserable too. 

The Master race thing in particular was hard to take seriously because it was just so ridiculously over the top. Again what is this with people going on about how 80s Who was so camp it embarrassed the show, but praising this era as a return to form because it took it seriously? The RTD era is far more embarrassing for camp overall to mainstream viewers than the 80s for the most part.

The Master race reveal with everyone's head spinning is like something out of a Saturday morning cartoon and not in a good way.  (It's also made worse by Obama being one of the Master's victims.) 

Also Tennant got on my tits with his awful self pity and yes I still hate the retcon that the Doctors are all different people. Never mind classic who which it f*cks up, it doesn't even make sense within New Who. Other than this and Capaldi's finale, the Doctors always act like they are the same people even in New Who. As I said in my rewatch thread, Doctors 9 and 10 are basically the exact same character, more so than even the classic Doctors. Tennant's first ever story was all about him convincing his companion that he was the same man too.  

It's funny because I really thought I was going to miss Tennant and take a long while to get used to Matt, but his last story put me off him so much I wasn't too sorry to see Ten Inch burn up in the end. Also whilst I like Bernard Cribbens as an actor again the whole thing was so over the top with the "YOU'RE THE MOST WONDERFUL MAN AND YOU CAN'T DIEEE."

As I said in the other thread the Tennant era is most like the Pertwee era. I mean obviously they are VERY different Doctors, but when boiled down to basics, both are largely earthbound, put a focus on alien invasion stories, both feature more straight forwardly heroic Doctors who are a part of a huge family of supporting characters, both regularly feature recurring enemies (with the same two being the biggest, the Daleks and the Master.) Sadly however both come to dismal ends. Planet of the Spiders is similarly the worst last Doctor story of the original, because it's both dreary, plooding and boring, yet also too silly, campy and ridiculous too. 

Only thing is at least Pertwee's Doctor goes out with his dignity and not like a little bitch, but yeah such a shame the two most heroic Doctors basically fade with a whimper ( a literal whimper in Tennant's case.) 

[burrunjor]

Watched 2 Matt's already. 

Both of them have been tremendously enjoyable largely because of his charisma and performance. You could make an argument for Matt being the best Doctor of them all to be honest. 

Jon Pertwee will always be my favourite and I do think he conveyed the Doctors sense of authority to a greater extent than anyone else and his intelligence. That said I don't think any actor embodied the characters alien eccentricity as naturally as Matt did apart from Tom. Those two actors for me are the most natural fit for what the Doctor is and in that respect are neck and neck for the best. On the one hand Tom definitely had more of an edge to him than Matt and a much huger, crazier personality and it must be said a much better voice. Was it Yak, Brian or Ludders I can't remember (not because you guys are interchangeable just because it was a long time ago.) That Matt does have some problems with his voice at times, as his words can sometimes be a bit garbled. It's not a huge problem, but Tom had an unearthly voice. He was one of these guys like Leonard Nimoy and Patrick Stewart and John Hurt whose voice is so fabulous you wonder if they're human. 

On the other I think Matt was able to blend different styles together more successfully than Tom. Like I said there are basically three different styles for the Doctor overall. The classic era style where he is a quirky, off beat, professorial, eccentric alien played by an unusual looking character (NOT saying ugly, unusual does not equal ugly. Most of my pin ups are unusual, but you know what I mean they're very striking looking.) Then there is the style from the Cushing movies and comics where the Doctor is a more cuddly, straight down the middle hero for little kids you can root for, then there is the RTD model where he is more of a brooding, tortured, romantic, tragic at times unstable hero who is played by an actor that's more conventional unconventional. He's not a quirky character actor, but he's not someone who could play a big action hero. He's the type to star in crime drama's as a tortured detective, or the lead in a rom com type. One that quirky girls can think they're so much more mature for fancying (like I do in reverse for a lot of my pin ups like Paloma Faith LOL. We're very pretentious.) 

Matt is pretty much the only actor who I think falls into all of those categories at the same time. The way his Doctor gets on so well with kids and is so bubbly does remind me of Cushing and Roberta Tovey and similarly makes him seem like a cuddly figure that kids instantly feel safe with. However he is also a bit more alien, much more unconventional in his looks and his mannerisms and really tries to capture the feel of the old Doctors, yet there is also still a more tragic, unstable element to him like the new who Doctors. The Time War hasn't been completely wiped clean, at least not yet and he actively despises the Daleks more.  Also again in terms of his appearance he can just about depending on the story fall into either the Tennant conventional unconventional, or the quirky character actor type and indeed his career has seen him at different points fall into both. 

It's no surprise that in some ways he ended up being the most popular, managing to win round the new who Tennant fans, and at least more classic era fans than Tennant did too. He is the bridge between them. Of course having said that, he still sadly doesn't quite match up as being the same character as the classic era Doctors overall within their continuity, which is why I still wouldn't call him the best, but again looking at it as just an interpretation of the Doctor, like the different interpretation's of Batman and Sherlock Holmes etc, then yes you could say Matt was the Kevin Conroy who managed to blend them all together. Just such a shame he didn't have a longer run, though granted given what was to come he definitely jumped ship at the right point. (I wonder if Matt has nightmares of the script for Death in Heaven coming through his door at night?) Still ideally I'd have rather Moff left in 2013 and Matt carry on. 

As for the episodes themselves well. 

The 11th Hour

This is one I've always loved and it's still tremendously enjoyable, but it's funny looking back at it, the story isn't that great. It's not bad by any means, but it's fairly unoriginal and derivative and seems to borrow from other New Who episodes. 

The Doctor/Amy relationship is obviously lifted from 10 and Madame DePompadour, where he meets her as a little girl and then as an adult and in the interim she became obsessed with him. The idea of there being a monster in her bedroom wall also comes from that too. 

A story about an alien fugitive hiding among humans and the alien police are willing to slaughter scores of us to get it, and the Doctor meets a new companion in the process who is a bit sexier and sassier than usual and clearly into him but he doesn't know, is straight from Smith and Jones. (The alien even hides in a f*cking hospital LOL.)

Also the cracks story is not too dissimilar to the Stolen Planets story arc, which in itself was not too dissimilar to the season 1 arc. Basically all three involve aliens whose planets are gone, destroyed and who want to make the earth their new home and the Doctor learns the source of it in the finale which involves the Daleks somehow. The Gelth, the Pyrovale's, the fish Vampires, all basically the same idea. (I might add all take place in the past too.) 

Finally the Doctor beating the alien by he and it whipping their dicks out and measuring them with the alien fleeing, is obviously taken from the Library two parter and will pop up again and again. (That said this is probably the best example of that. It is quite badass seeing Matt take his place among the Doctors and the aliens seeing how lots of monsters from old and new who met their end and unlike the Vastha Nerada where it just undermined really effective villains, these guys I can believe would retreat as they are just jobsworths.)

Still in spite of that the story works because it basically just serves as a way for Matt Smith to show off and I'm all for that LOL. When you've got an actor like that who can basically be a one man show why not let him be from time to time? It's like Tim Curry in Clue. (Only thing that annoyed me was seeing all that gorgeous food go to waste, though as stupid as it sounds I'm actually tempted to try fish fingers and custard at some point.) 

That said it's not just Matt. Karen Gillan also makes a great debut here with the chemistry between her and Matt being there from the start. Again the best dynamics in new who from Eccelston and Rose to Tennant and Freema to Matt and Karen always happen when they just let the actors get on with each other and have the dynamic build itself up naturally from that, rather than going in with this big overwritten idea of let's show how toxic they are, let's show how they love each other the most etc, like 12 and Clara and Rose and 10. 

Also whilst the story is a bit derivative, there are enough new twists to it, even just visually to make it interesting. The eye in the wall is one of the most stunning in all of New Who both in concept and execution. I can't imagine how thrilling that must have been for little kids. The idea of Prisoner Zero hiding in Amy's house for all that time is also really creepy as it the scene where she discovers it and the monster breaks free. Olivia Coleman also puts in a reliably good performance, giving gravitas to what is a fairly bland part, whilst the effects for the Prisoner are also top notch. I also actually quite like the new design for the TARDIS too. 

It's funny because at the time I didn't, but looking back on it, ironically it might be my favourite of the new who TARDIS'. Capaldi's was a bit too bland, Tennant and Eccelston's meanwhile looked too HR Giger, organic technology which sorry I didn't like, whilst Jodie's who even cares at that point? Matt's however I think gets it right in that his TARDIS is cosey. I also love how it has a kind of 1960s, ray gun gothic feel to it too with all the old fashioned "futuristic" clunky machinery and bits and pieces. I get Cushing movie and 1963 Time Machine vibes to it. 

Again the overall story is never going to stand as one of who's best, but as introductory episode (which often are more straight forward) 11th Hour works brilliantly and is lightyears ahead of Rose and The Christmas Invasion, and indeed many Old who first Doctor stories, like Robot, Twin Dilemma, Time and the Rani.

The Beast Below: I don't know why this one is hated so much? It's a bit more of a thoughtful, tragic story with no real villains per say and a great twist.  I don't mind Amy being right and the Doctor being wrong here as this isn't like Donna where she gets his powers and uses them better than him. Indeed this is the type of thing the companion should do, balance him out a bit, maybe look at things from a different perspective. Also they both make mistakes too. I also LOVE Sophie Okonedo. She is a brilliant actress and f*cking hell does her accent do things to me. This is one of her best performances meanwhile, switching from the fun, sexy, sassy babe that you think is going to save the day and maybe even be a love interest for Matt only to see the awful truth which leaves you not sure what to think about her. On the one hand her actions were understandable, but on the other she still ended up putting an innocent creature through suffering for centuries for no reason. She's clearly not evil, but still very morally grey and at the end you can't help but wonder if it's good she has a chance to redeem herself or that she got away with it LOL.

I'm baffled that Moffat and sites like tv tropes think THIS is the worst episode Moffat ever wrote? Seriously? You guys would rather Death in Heaven with its drawn out psychopathic killings, ideas of the dead being aware mixed in with a panto villain, and Santa showing up than this? Who fandom is f*cking insane at times. 

Can I also just say as well after dealing with Tennant being a mopey git for the specials how refreshing it is seeing the Doctor be the Doctor again? 

[burrunjor]

Dec 31, 2023 18:50:01 GMT Deleted said:

The cold, hard truth is that series 1-4 is very good television. Yeah, it doesn't stay true to a lot of the Doctor's past characteristics, but if you just take them to be two different interpretations of the same concept (Classic Who as a science-fiction procedural, NuWho as an action-adventure romance), it's not hard to glean enjoyment from both. The difference of interpretation comes down to the respective times in which they were broadcast. As a musical example, Funk was great in the 70s, but would feel rather out of place now. The tragedy of this is that most Funk-listeners had already consolidated their interests in their formative years, and will never find the same raw, true enjoyment from newer music. You can never replicate the youthful joy of discovering something and claiming it as your own once you've gotten old. Same with television.

I wish Yak were still around so I could tell him this is the best analysis of both series. In all fairness though it must be remembered that part of why New Who does come in for more shit this way than other shows is because again it insists on being the same show as the original. Worse it insists on rewrting the history of the original show to make this one fit, so those of us who loved the classic era do get more defensive, because well we worry that the original will be changed for future generations. Obviously there will always be fans who return to the original and people who discover it, but it's easy to see how it could become received wisdom that old who was like this rather than that, making it harder for anything like it to get made.