Worst fandoms

[burrunjor]

Probably been a thread for this already but I can't be arsed finding it LOL. 

Well I'm going to say surprisingly Star Trek and Doctor Who. 

You all know my issues with DW fandom. It's too insecure because of the bullying the show got in the 90s and will therefore sell the show out to any fad, and will develop a cult like worship of anybody that makes it keeeeewwwwwlllllll that in the worst cases makes the Family from the Omega Man look fair and measured. 

However Star Trek is a new one for me, as for the last few years I thought it was good. In fact I wanted Who fandom to be more like it because Star Trek fandom is extremely confident. (Hence why a Beastie Boys track being played in a trailer for a ST movie is enough for them to get angry that it's not like Trek, as opposed to some who fans who actually defend the Timeless Children that destroys every single aspect of the Doctors character.)

However getting back into Lost in Space actually reminded me that Trekkies are complete snobs and assholes to other sci fi series. Now this is more Original Series fans to be fair. Still Star Trek TOS fans have always had a terrible habit of shitting on other series and franchises, making out that Star Trek is the thinking man's  sci fi as opposed to the one idiots like. 

Lost in Space was terribly bullied that way, and like I said it's reputation never recovered. As I've been over Lost in Space like it or hate it, deserves credit as the first proper sci fi comedy on tv, and the one which paved the way for all the others. However Trekkies constantly shitting on it and writing in their books "Star Trek was the first show to take sci fi seriously unlike that awful Lost in Space." Have really f*cked it over in the long term, so that even when shows like Rick and Morty and Red Dwarf do things in the modern age that Lost in Space did in the 60s and get praised for them like Pickle Rick, then Lost in Space is still shat on as the disgrace to sci if unlike Star Trek. 

Similarly Space 1999 also suffered from this, (James Marsters humorously mentioned doing this to Space 1999 as a Trekkie in the 70s, only for Charisma Carpenter to remind him that his onscreen girlfriend and friend Juliet Landau was Martin Landau's daughter LOL) as did Star Wars, though it was too big to bring down unlike the other two. Still it's worth noting that a lot of the rivalry in the Star Wars/Star Trek fandom comes from Trekkies. Look at Simon Pegg's obnoxious comments recently about how the Trekkies have always just been more progressive and more intelligent than Star Wars fans, hence why they could accept female and non white heroes more easily.

Ironically Doctor Who is the only one that Trekkies seem okay with. I think it's because DW fans whilst terrible to their own supposedly favourite series, by and large are brilliant with other sci fi series. DW fans by and large have never shat on Blake's 7, Red Dwarf, Gerry Anderson series, or American genre shows like Xena, Buffy and Star Trek to the same extent that Trekkies have to their rivals. I think maybe because DW has such a wide range, it has drawn from all of these shows at different point and so Whovians have to kind of acknowledge them LOL.

Still either way DW fans and Trekkies have always got along. There's a rivalry sure, but it's a friendly one. It may have also helped that a lot of DW actors are big Trekkies. Even then though I can't help but feel that sometimes the friendship with this fandom is a bit more one sided from Who fans. They are certainly the ones that push it more than Trekkies do who can still sometimes look down on even classic DW of all things as not being as sophisticated sci fi as much as theirs. 

For me the Buffy fandom is the best as it has enough confidence in the show to the point where I don't think it would ever let schiesters "smash it up" and buy into bullshit like "Buffy has no canon because they got the year of Spike's birth wrong in two episodes, so that means I can rewrite every single part of her character." Yet they are also quite welcoming to other franchises too, and have never really shat on other series to big the Buffster up. The only time they did that was admittedly to Twilight in the 10s, but to be fair to them that didn't last and EVERYBODY shat on Twilight. Hating on it was the number 1 hipster, jump on the bandwagon fad of the 2010s LOL. 

Of course these fandoms don't reflect on the quality of the shows themselves, and when I say fans I don't just mean random people who like them, but the official fandoms. Although I do hate to say that at certain points the fans did put me off both shows. Years ago when I was a teenager I went through a period of not liking Star Trek because I kept seeing stuff about how shit these other shows are compared to it, that ironically made me notice the flaws in Star Trek more. Where as before I would have just written off the campy episodes as quite charming in a 60s way, now it was like "seriously, you guys rip on every other sci fi show and then do a space hippies episode?" Meanwhile as you know the unpleasant experiences I had with DW fandom caused me to fall out of love with it a few years back for a short while, but thankfully I put both behind me and can appreciate them both as the classics they are. 

Still it should serve as a lesson to other fandoms I think never to be too cocky or too lacking in confidence. 

[rushy]

The worst fandom is easily The Sopranos.

All they do is quote Tony's lines like it's holy gospel and act like the show is a Shakespearean masterpiece where every single little piece is perfection. Instead of recognising The Sopranos for what it truly is - a pretty good mafia show used by a disturbed man to vent his nihilism and mommy issues.

EDIT: The worst fandom who embraces their show's destruction is Mission: Impossible. It's not well known, but the Tom Cruise movies are intended to take place in the same continuity as the show, with the first film's villain being the show's original hero turned corrupt.

[burrunjor]

Oct 20, 2023 14:08:04 GMT rushy said:

The worst fandom is easily The Sopranos.

All they do is quote Tony's lines like it's holy gospel and act like the show is a Shakespearean masterpiece where every single little piece is perfection. Instead of recognising The Sopranos for what it truly is - a pretty good mafia show used by a disturbed man to vent his nihilism and mommy issues.

Oh god I know what you mean. I know very little about the show, but even I have come across smug Soprano's fans who like to act as though their series is one of the few good tv shows ever made. I said this in another thread, (and ironically used Star Trek as an example of a show that's fandom doesn't have to do that until I got a reminder LOL.) That whenever a fandom tries to shit on everything else and make out theirs is the thinking man's or woman's music, tv, film it always puts me against it. 

I mean to be fair all fandoms do it a little bit. Even here we were a bit guilty of doing it with Classic Who. Still for some it's used as the main way to push something. Other examples include Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, the latter especially, their fans would shit on EVERY single fantasy series or film as childish compared to theirs just because GOT had porn and talked in ye olde English language. It's what made its fall all the more hilarious and satisfying. 

[Deleted]

I've never come across a fandom as mentally unhinged as Doctor Who's. The Cobra Kai fandom is pretty bad, though. For a show that promotes anti bullying the fandom sure has a fair share of them.

[burrunjor]

Oct 20, 2023 14:16:12 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

I've never come across a fandom as mentally unhinged as Doctor Who's. The Cobra Kai fandom is pretty bad, though. For a show that promotes anti bullying the fandom sure has a fair share of them.

Yeah true Elizabeth Sandifier is a f*cking head case. Actually wishing death upon me for my disagreements over a tv show! And what's worse is she isn't just a lol cow online. She's part of the official fandom that gets quoted all the time on sites like wikipedia and TV Tropes! 

Similarly Mr Tardis has tried to smear people as sexual abusers and isn't just some crank online, but someone that has interviewed and spoken to people involved in the show like Sophie Aldred, Sylvester McCoy etc. 

And to think Claudia Boleyn is the one they kicked out! 

[Deleted]

Oct 20, 2023 14:23:48 GMT burrunjor said:

Oct 20, 2023 14:16:12 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

I've never come across a fandom as mentally unhinged as Doctor Who's. The Cobra Kai fandom is pretty bad, though. For a show that promotes anti bullying the fandom sure has a fair share of them.

Yeah true Elizabeth Sandifier is a f*cking head case. Actually wishing death upon me for my disagreements over a tv show! And what's worse is she isn't just a lol cow online. She's part of the official fandom that gets quoted all the time on sites like wikipedia and TV Tropes! 

Similarly Mr Tardis has tried to smear people as sexual abusers and isn't just some crank online, but someone that has interviewed and spoken to people involved in the show like Sophie Aldred, Sylvester McCoy etc. 

And to think Claudia Boleyn is the one they kicked out! 

I know, there's no justice in the world. I refuse to watch or read anything from either of those gobshites

[burrunjor]

Here are some examples of Star Trek fans being assholes to Lost in Space and sinking its reputation in the 70s and 80s. 

Writer D.C. Fontana felt so strongly about what was being achieved over at Star Trek, she and others referred to Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea and Lost In Space as Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sink and Last In Space respectively in her article I Remember Star Trek..

As Robert Spinrad put it in Star Trek In The Real World in Boarding The Enterprise, "Gene Roddenberry, unlike Irwin Allen, took science fiction seriously."

Yeah that's the point you snob, Lost in Space was supposed to be funny and created a completely new brand of comedy.

David Gerrold though was the biggest asshole to Lost in Space. He told this story. 

At the 1964 World Science Fiction Convention in Chicago, Irwin Allen previewed his new science fiction show, and Gene Roddenberry previewed his. The fans yawned through Lost In Space, but they gave the Star Trek pilot a standing ovation- a fact which puzzled Irwin Allen to no end. He couldn't see the difference between Roddenberry's show and his own."

He also said. 

"A thoroughly offensive show. It has probably done more to damage the advance of science fiction as a serious literary movement than all of the big bug movies ever made."

Again all this did Davey boy is make me think. "Hang on a minute here? Lost in Space was intended to be campy fun like Batman, and an outright comedy like Futurama, so any of the silly bits are intentional and meant to be silly for a laugh? Star Trek however is promoted as the pinnacle of serious Sci fi, yet it STILL did things like this. "











I'll be honest here as far as serious sci fi shows being camp goes, Star Trek is the most guilty. DW NEVER had anything as stupid as those. Yes it had stupid monsters from time to time, but never an actual idea as stupid and campy as the coms and the yans. Ironically whilst Star Trek fans wet themselves over how it tackled the deep issues in a grown up way compared to other shows, I think DW tackled politics a lot more successfully in its original run than TOS ever did. Doctor Who's political stories are the Daleks, the Green Death, Genesis of the Daleks, Frontier in Space and Inferno. Star Trek's are the Nazis episode (that's offensive) the Coms and the Yans, the Garden of Eden one about 60s counter culture, and the Abe Lincoln episode, though I'll give them Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is one of the best pieces of political fiction ever written, even then it is kind of the exception. 

Again this is not to say Star Trek is crap of course. The original series is still one of the best shows ever made, and it did many things far better than either DW or Lost in Space, like creating a more consistent and complex lore, greater focus on its characters and their relationships beyond what was convenient to the plot, at its best it did take a more somewhat grounded approach where the characters weren't just going on adventures, or saving the universe like DW, but actually learning about it and their place in it, and yes it was groundbreaking in ways that those other shows weren't. DW was doing racist caricatures of China men ten years after Trek broke new ground by having the first interracial kiss. 

Still as you can see this is something that bugs me about Trekkies, and all it does is make me, someone who likes their show notice and want to point out its flaws more. 

PS I think Stef Coburn falls into this. I know he's just a knob head, but he was also a huge Trekkie and when I brought up how hypocritical it was for him to dismiss DW as silly when he loves Star Trek he went on a rant about how Star Trek was written by a real human being who had real experiences and brought them into the show. 

[rushy]

George Takei said it best when he told Paul Darrow that Star Trek had the budget and Blake's 7 had the scripts.

[rushy]

the only time I get snooty about a show is when people dismiss Lost, primarily because of the reputation its ending has. I'm convinced half of them didn't pay attention, because the stuff they say about it is mind-boggling. "They were dead all the time!"

Uh... no? That's literally not what happened.

[burrunjor]

Oct 20, 2023 15:03:31 GMT rushy said:

George Takei said it best when he told Paul Darrow that Star Trek had the budget and Blake's 7 had the scripts.

Well I wouldn't go that far. I do think Blake's 7 was more consistent than Star Trek it must be said, but Star Trek had a wider universe and mythology to play in, hence why it could come back. B7 is more comparable to say the Prisoner in that is a short, one off story with a very definite beginning, middle and end. Okay it last four seasons so it's not quite like that, but still overall Blake's 7 is really all about their conflict with the federation. Even in season 3, that's still the main overarching story. 

You couldn't do a series of Blake's 7 where the Federation was completely done and dusted and a new threat emerged and then keep it going on for ten years, with say only the first 2 being about the Federation, unlike Star Trek which can take them anywhere in the universe and introduce new monsters, aliens and threats like the Borg. That's why I think a B7 revival other than if it were for a movie or miniseries to finish Avon's story, which can obviously never happen now, wouldn't have ever worked unlike Star Trek.

[rushy]

Oct 20, 2023 15:17:03 GMT burrunjor said:

You couldn't do a series of Blake's 7 where the Federation was completely done and dusted and a new threat emerged and then keep it going on for ten years

I disagree with that. When I first watched the show, I fully expected them to drop the Federation altogether, because they weren't relevant to Avon as an enemy. I thought the show would focus on him becoming a galactic criminal, fighting people like the Terra Nostra and other space cartels. The fact that he was content to just wander around aimlessly was grossly out of character and I had to depend on his later characterisation and even the Big Finish audios to really justify it (which is why Series C is still my least favourite).

It's also worth noting that the Federation crumbles completely in the middle of Darrow's sequel novels. It's not irreplaceable as an enemy.

[burrunjor]

Oct 20, 2023 15:29:22 GMT rushy said:

Oct 20, 2023 15:17:03 GMT burrunjor said:

You couldn't do a series of Blake's 7 where the Federation was completely done and dusted and a new threat emerged and then keep it going on for ten years

I disagree with that. When I first watched the show, I fully expected them to drop the Federation altogether, because they weren't relevant to Avon as an enemy. I thought the show would focus on him becoming a galactic criminal, fighting people like the Terra Nostra and other space cartels. The fact that he was content to just wander around aimlessly was grossly out of character and I had to depend on his later characterisation and even the Big Finish audios to really justify it (which is why Series C is still my least favourite).

It's also worth noting that the Federation crumbles completely in the middle of Darrow's sequel novels. It's not irreplaceable as an enemy.

Well I disagree. I don't see B7 going on without it for too long as the characters are outlaws from it which is the only reason they are together and a dirty dozen in space. Remove that and have it that they just stick together through affection and it's a different show, and introduce another big bad for them to be on the run from and it's basically just the Federation. I do agree that it is out of character for Avon to wander around aimlessly in series C, but only in the sense of he is not doing more he can to take down the Federation. He could easily just go back to earth and destroy it. Granted you might think why would he do that when he only cares about himself, but that's surely better than to let his enemies expand and become powerful when he was finally given breathing space? Of course in actual fact, the most likely thing for Avon to do, would be to sell the Liberators secrets to a neutral planet, become rich off them and the money stashed in the Liberator and then go off and live on a planet somewhere and be comfortable for the rest of his life. (Which I'm sure none of the team other than possibly Cally would have had a problem with at that point.) 

However that's a plot hole you just have to ignore, like him giving Dayna and Tarrant access to Zen. LOL Paul Darrow was right that Avon would never have done that, but at the end of the day for plot practicality they just had too. 

[rushy]

Oct 20, 2023 16:29:08 GMT burrunjor said:

Well I disagree. I don't see B7 going on without it for too long as the characters are outlaws from it which is the only reason they are together

That's my whole point. They weren't outlaws anymore. The Federation as an empire existed only in name, and Servalan spent most of Series C and D re-conquering her old territories, only managing because she pulled wild tricks out of her hat, which the crew couldn't have predicted.

It's never explained why they stay together. Avon has a reason to keep the ship, sure. And Vila might not have anywhere else to go. But Dayna would have just left to assassinate Servalan, Tarrant would "borrowed" some cash to buy his own ship and Cally would have returned to Auron or kept looking for Blake. She's a principled freedom fighter, and that's why she was there.

As a crew, they have no business being together until the events of Terminal. It's a huge flaw of Series C. They wanted it to be detached from the Federation arc, but also kept the Federation. Having their cake and eating it at the same time. 

If they'd committed to making Avon a criminal, it would have been more logical. Dayna might not want her friends in trouble, and stays to help them out. Cally might want funding for future freedom fighting efforts. Avon, Vila and Tarrant are already criminals. 

[burrunjor]

Oct 20, 2023 16:45:01 GMT rushy said:

Oct 20, 2023 16:29:08 GMT burrunjor said:

Well I disagree. I don't see B7 going on without it for too long as the characters are outlaws from it which is the only reason they are together

That's my whole point. They weren't outlaws anymore. The Federation as an empire existed only in name, and Servalan spent most of Series C and D re-conquering her old territories, only managing because she pulled wild tricks out of her hat, which the crew couldn't have predicted.

It's never explained why they stay together. Avon has a reason to keep the ship, sure. And Vila might not have anywhere else to go. But Dayna would have just left to assassinate Servalan, Tarrant would "borrowed" some cash to buy his own ship and Cally would have returned to Auron or kept looking for Blake. She's a principled freedom fighter, and that's why she was there.

As a crew, they have no business being together until the events of Terminal. It's a huge flaw of Series C. They wanted it to be detached from the Federation arc, but also kept the Federation. Having their cake and eating it at the same time. 

Well I think they tried to get round that by making out that the Federation wasn't completely destroyed. Its power was crippled, but still there, hence Tarrant thinking that far flung alien colony is part of Servalan's empire that is expanding, and them commenting on how everything is still the same on earth when they capture Shrinker.

[rushy]

I might be a little more positively inclined towards Series C if Terminal had been the ending, because the whole "Blake died a year ago" angle suggests Nation's intention was that the 'proper' story already ended with Star One, and Series C is more of an epilogue wrapping up loose threads.