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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 21:55:53 GMT
M-meat, meat, meat and graaaaaavvvvyyyyy. And cream and beer! And pork and beef and fat great big chunks of HOT WET RRRRRED! Don't you see? I'm splitting my sides! I am HILAaaaarious! I am the funniest thing in DA WHOLE WIDE WURLD!  |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 21:57:10 GMT
M-meat, meat, meat and graaaaaavvvvyyyyy. And cream and beer! And pork and beef and fat great big chunks of HOT WET RRRRRED! Don't you see? I'm splitting my sides! I am HILAaaaarious! I am the funniest thing in DA WHOLE WIDE WURLD! Such eloquence but think of all the people you've killed? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 21:57:10 GMT
M-meat, meat, meat and graaaaaavvvvyyyyy. And cream and beer! And pork and beef and fat great big chunks of HOT WET RRRRRED! Don't you see? I'm splitting my sides! I am HILAaaaarious! I am the funniest thing in DA WHOLE WIDE WURLD! "Take The End of Time, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - no one ever. |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 21:58:12 GMT
And cream and beer! And pork and beef and fat great big chunks of HOT WET RRRRRED! Don't you see? I'm splitting my sides! I am HILAaaaarious! I am the funniest thing in DA WHOLE WIDE WURLD! "Take The End of Time, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - no one ever. To be fair the bit I just quoted was quite a good line. I'd say that's about the only good Doctor/Master confrontation in the entirety of New Who. One time the Doctor isn't a pussy against the Master. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 21:59:11 GMT
And cream and beer! And pork and beef and fat great big chunks of HOT WET RRRRRED! Don't you see? I'm splitting my sides! I am HILAaaaarious! I am the funniest thing in DA WHOLE WIDE WURLD! Such eloquence but think of all the people you've killed? I do really enjoy their scenes of reminiscing about the Master's father's estate, and how things might have worked out differently. It was very sweet in a melancholy way. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 22:00:40 GMT
"Take The End of Time, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - no one ever. To be fair the bit I just quoted was quite a good line. I'd say that's about the only good Doctor/Master confrontation in the entirety of New Who. One time the Doctor isn't a pussy against the Master. I'm surprised he knew what the word eloquence meant. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 22:03:53 GMT
It pisses me right off that fans lap up Simm's performance in that story, but go after Ainley for being too OTT.
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Post by iank on Oct 12, 2023 22:05:05 GMT
And cream and beer! And pork and beef and fat great big chunks of HOT WET RRRRRED! Don't you see? I'm splitting my sides! I am HILAaaaarious! I am the funniest thing in DA WHOLE WIDE WURLD! "Take The End of Time, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - no one ever. The opening narration is still one of the funniest pieces of terrible dialogue I've ever heard on TV. "There was these people who had bad dreams, but didn't remember them, except this one guy, but none of this shit matters to the plot anyway..." First draft indeed! |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 22:07:55 GMT
Such eloquence but think of all the people you've killed? I do really enjoy their scenes of reminiscing about the Master's father's estate, and how things might have worked out differently. It was very sweet in a melancholy way. It's ironically the only way that you can really touch on the Master and Doctors friendship. Having them still want to be friends is moronic for reasons I've been over, but having the odd bit of regret that the other could have ended up the way they did, that is effective and as you say moving. Sadly RTD ruins it later in the story with the Master going on about "he loves playing with earth girls" and Tennant telling the genocidal psycho that he would be honored to travel with him. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 22:13:15 GMT
"Take The End of Time, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - no one ever. The opening narration is still one of the funniest pieces of terrible dialogue I've ever heard on TV. "There was these people who had bad dreams, but didn't remember them, except this one guy, but none of this shit matters to the plot anyway..." First draft indeed! Even as a kid I thought that head shaking climax to part one looked rubbish. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 22:13:27 GMT
I do really enjoy their scenes of reminiscing about the Master's father's estate, and how things might have worked out differently. It was very sweet in a melancholy way. It's ironically the only way that you can really touch on the Master and Doctors friendship. Having them still want to be friends is moronic for reasons I've been over, but having the odd bit of regret that the other could have ended up the way they did, that is effective and as you say moving. Sadly RTD ruins it later in the story with the Master going on about "he loves playing with earth girls" and Tennant telling the genocidal psycho that he would be honored to travel with him. Well, the first isn't really inaccurate LOL. And the second I think refers to Tennant wanting the Master to return to the person he used to be. He's not saying it'd be an honour to travel with who he is now, but who he could be. |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 22:17:50 GMT
"Take The End of Time, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - no one ever. The opening narration is still one of the funniest pieces of terrible dialogue I've ever heard on TV. "There was these people who had bad dreams, but didn't remember them, except this one guy, but none of this shit matters to the plot anyway..." First draft indeed! There seems to be the remnants of the abandoned series 5 in that line of dialogue and the intro, or at least a reference to it, suggesting RTD wanted it to be canon in a roundabout way. RTD did contemplate doing a fifth series very briefly back in 2008 before he made the decision to rest it (a bad one in my opinion) with Martha back and Lady Christina who hadn't been cast yet as the two companions and The Beast would have been the Big Bad of the series. They would have left in the finale, with Christina possibly being killed, and the waters of mars would have followed at Christmas (under the title Red Christmas) and the End of Time then over New Year. Personally I think that would have been f*cking awesome. I love the Beast, and they could have even done a loose adaptation of Scratchman that way as the finale. Not saying they would, but still something along those lines would have been scary. That also would have been the first time we had a New Who villain as the main foe. Sadly I think that they later abandoned having new villains carry a season, because both times the villains they picked were shit. Madame Kovarian and Tzim Shaw. The former was a stupid, OTT coward with no proper motivation, and the latter was a lame, unthreatening generic villain (typical of Chibnall monsters.) The Beast however could have changed that and maybe made new who not so dependent on classic series foes. Sadly however it was not to be, BUT in the opening to the End of Time, inexplicably, there is a reference and even a picture of the Doctor battling a Demon? Again it could have been from an early draft, but I don't see why RTD would write the End of Time before the proposed series 5? To me it probably was Russell tossing it in as like I said a way of referencing the abandoned arc for fan fic and spin off writers. Still as it is, it seems so random and weird, even more so given it's not mentioned again that "yeah the Doctor fought a giant Demon on earth." |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 22:23:00 GMT
I'd like to see someone like David Morrissey's the Governor be the villain. No tiresome quips or witty banter, just a 100% evil bastard who actually kills characters we care about and laughs while he does it.
The show needs to feel a bit unsafe and have a genuine menace in it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 22:29:53 GMT
The opening narration is still one of the funniest pieces of terrible dialogue I've ever heard on TV. "There was these people who had bad dreams, but didn't remember them, except this one guy, but none of this shit matters to the plot anyway..." First draft indeed! There seems to be the remnants of the abandoned series 5 in that line of dialogue and the intro, or at least a reference to it, suggesting RTD wanted it to be canon in a roundabout way. RTD did contemplate doing a fifth series very briefly back in 2008 before he made the decision to rest it (a bad one in my opinion) with Martha back and Lady Christina who hadn't been cast yet as the two companions and The Beast would have been the Big Bad of the series. They would have left in the finale, with Christina possibly being killed, and the waters of mars would have followed at Christmas (under the title Red Christmas) and the End of Time then over New Year. Personally I think that would have been f*cking awesome. I love the Beast, and they could have even done a loose adaptation of Scratchman that way as the finale. Not saying they would, but still something along those lines would have been scary. That also would have been the first time we had a New Who villain as the main foe. Sadly I think that they later abandoned having new villains carry a season, because both times the villains they picked were shit. Madame Kovarian and Tzim Shaw. The former was a stupid, OTT coward with no proper motivation, and the latter was a lame, unthreatening generic villain (typical of Chibnall monsters.) The Beast however could have changed that and maybe made new who not so dependent on classic series foes. Sadly however it was not to be, BUT in the opening to the End of Time, inexplicably, there is a reference and even a picture of the Doctor battling a Demon? Again it could have been from an early draft, but I don't see why RTD would write the End of Time before the proposed series 5? To me it probably was Russell tossing it in as like I said a way of referencing the abandoned arc for fan fic and spin off writers. Still as it is, it seems so random and weird, even more so given it's not mentioned again that "yeah the Doctor fought a giant Demon on earth." Eh, I kind of prefer the Beast as a one-off mystery, one who in all likelihood was just some strange parasitic alien talking a lot of bullshit about the whole "before the universe" and everything. The grandiosity hinted at is cool but I feel the way in which the episode ends indirectly confirms that the Satan act was all a ruse. And honestly I much prefer it that way; it makes the universe feel so much bigger. Doctor Who defeating the Devil would have done little in the way of stakes, because where do you go from there? |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 22:43:05 GMT
There seems to be the remnants of the abandoned series 5 in that line of dialogue and the intro, or at least a reference to it, suggesting RTD wanted it to be canon in a roundabout way. RTD did contemplate doing a fifth series very briefly back in 2008 before he made the decision to rest it (a bad one in my opinion) with Martha back and Lady Christina who hadn't been cast yet as the two companions and The Beast would have been the Big Bad of the series. They would have left in the finale, with Christina possibly being killed, and the waters of mars would have followed at Christmas (under the title Red Christmas) and the End of Time then over New Year. Personally I think that would have been f*cking awesome. I love the Beast, and they could have even done a loose adaptation of Scratchman that way as the finale. Not saying they would, but still something along those lines would have been scary. That also would have been the first time we had a New Who villain as the main foe. Sadly I think that they later abandoned having new villains carry a season, because both times the villains they picked were shit. Madame Kovarian and Tzim Shaw. The former was a stupid, OTT coward with no proper motivation, and the latter was a lame, unthreatening generic villain (typical of Chibnall monsters.) The Beast however could have changed that and maybe made new who not so dependent on classic series foes. Sadly however it was not to be, BUT in the opening to the End of Time, inexplicably, there is a reference and even a picture of the Doctor battling a Demon? Again it could have been from an early draft, but I don't see why RTD would write the End of Time before the proposed series 5? To me it probably was Russell tossing it in as like I said a way of referencing the abandoned arc for fan fic and spin off writers. Still as it is, it seems so random and weird, even more so given it's not mentioned again that "yeah the Doctor fought a giant Demon on earth." Eh, I kind of prefer the Beast as a one-off mystery, one who in all likelihood was just some strange parasitic alien talking a lot of bullshit about the whole "before the universe" and everything. The grandiosity hinted at is cool but I feel the way in which the episode ends indirectly confirms that the Satan act was all a ruse. And honestly I much prefer it that way; it makes the universe feel so much bigger. Doctor Who defeating the Devil would have done little in the way of stakes, because where do you go from there? I'd argue that Journey's End had already raised the stakes too high. You literally can't do anything bigger than save every universe. Funnily enough the guy who wrote the story that inspired Journey's End, the finale of the 90s Spider-Man the animated series said exactly that, that he intended that to be the end of the series because there was nothing Spidey could do that was bigger. Meanwhile I'd argue that in the DW universe, the Devil isn't really the biggest thing out there. I mean hell even if you incorporate creatures from other religions like Sutekh, Loki or the creatures from the Cthulu mythos, they are all on a par with Satan. Finally I think you could have still had it be a big bad, but not revealed where it came from. Just have it that it fell through time when it went into the black hole and is now wanting revenge. You don't have to completely explain away where it came from, as we know what it wants and how dangerous it is. There also was a story arc that said it had hundreds of children buried in planets all over the universe. We saw one of them, Abaddon in the season 1 finale of Torchwood so that could have easily been something to pick up for series 5. |
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