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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 22:56:17 GMT
Eh, I kind of prefer the Beast as a one-off mystery, one who in all likelihood was just some strange parasitic alien talking a lot of bullshit about the whole "before the universe" and everything. The grandiosity hinted at is cool but I feel the way in which the episode ends indirectly confirms that the Satan act was all a ruse. And honestly I much prefer it that way; it makes the universe feel so much bigger. Doctor Who defeating the Devil would have done little in the way of stakes, because where do you go from there? I'd argue that Journey's End had already raised the stakes too high. You literally can't do anything bigger than save every universe. Funnily enough the guy who wrote the story that inspired Journey's End, the finale of the 90s Spider-Man the animated series said exactly that, that he intended that to be the end of the series because there was nothing Spidey could do that was bigger. Meanwhile I'd argue that in the DW universe, the Devil isn't really the biggest thing out there. I mean hell even if you incorporate creatures from other religions like Sutekh, Loki or the creatures from the Cthulu mythos, they are all on a par with Satan. Finally I think you could have still had it be a big bad, but not revealed where it came from. Just have it that it fell through time when it went into the black hole and is now wanting revenge. You don't have to completely explain away where it came from, as we know what it wants and how dangerous it is. There also was a story arc that said it had hundreds of children buried in planets all over the universe. We saw one of them, Abaddon in the season 1 finale of Torchwood so that could have easily been something to pick up for series 5. I won't argue with that, and I'm not the biggest fan of Journey's End myself. Davros' plan is straight-up stupid, and the excuse of "he's insane!!!" just detracts from the methodical carnage we saw in the Stolen Earth. At best, they could have just had it so the reality bomb destroyed our universe, not the rest of the multiverse, but I guess they needed a way to bring Rose back and tie it all together full-circle. Honestly I don't envy these writers at all, they have some serious thinking to do when it comes to this stuff. The other religious figures don't have nearly as much visceral impact because we weren't raised in a society that fears Sutekh or Loki. We were raised in a Christian society and the devil has been a constant cultural presence in our lives, all the way from early childhood. He is the ultimate bogeyman, the archetype of all other evils, which is something touched on in the episode actually. He's been with us since we were in our cribs and wetting ourselves and eating crayons; meanwhile most kids don't find out about Cthulhu until they're teenagers or even older, and by then he's just a fictional character. Things reinforced during childhood get into the deepest parts of our minds somehow, and they stay there forever. It's also why I guarantee that every single person on this forum is such a mad fan of this show because they consumed it during their early childhood. That's fair enough yeah, honestly my main point was that it'd be much cooler and more mysterious to have him appear and be vanquished in just that story, a la the Midnight monster. Here's hoping RTD doesn't bring him back, but Ncuti already named the Beast as the monster he'd most like to oppose as the Doctor, so I won't hold my breath. Capaldi had the same with the Mondasian Cybermen and that seemingly impossible wish was granted. The less said about Torchwood, the better. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 22:58:44 GMT
I just treat The Stolen Earth/Journey's End as a tribute to B-movie Doctor Who. "Nuthink in ze vurld can stop me noooow!" level stuff. It's a stereotypical mad scientist story.
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 22:59:06 GMT
I'd argue that Journey's End had already raised the stakes too high. You literally can't do anything bigger than save every universe. Funnily enough the guy who wrote the story that inspired Journey's End, the finale of the 90s Spider-Man the animated series said exactly that, that he intended that to be the end of the series because there was nothing Spidey could do that was bigger. Meanwhile I'd argue that in the DW universe, the Devil isn't really the biggest thing out there. I mean hell even if you incorporate creatures from other religions like Sutekh, Loki or the creatures from the Cthulu mythos, they are all on a par with Satan. Finally I think you could have still had it be a big bad, but not revealed where it came from. Just have it that it fell through time when it went into the black hole and is now wanting revenge. You don't have to completely explain away where it came from, as we know what it wants and how dangerous it is. There also was a story arc that said it had hundreds of children buried in planets all over the universe. We saw one of them, Abaddon in the season 1 finale of Torchwood so that could have easily been something to pick up for series 5. I won't argue with that, and I'm not the biggest fan of Journey's End myself. Davros' plan is straight-up stupid, and the excuse of "he's insane!!!" just detracts from the methodical carnage we saw in the Stolen Earth. At best, they could have just had it so the reality bomb destroyed our universe, not the rest of the multiverse, but I guess they needed a way to bring Rose back and tie it all together full-circle. Honestly I don't envy these writers at all, they have some serious thinking to do when it comes to this stuff. The other religious figures don't have nearly as much visceral impact because we weren't raised in a society that fears Sutekh or Loki. We were raised in a Christian society and the devil has been a constant cultural presence in our lives, all the way from early childhood. He is the ultimate bogeyman, the archetype of all other evils, which is something touched on in the episode actually. He's been with us since we were in our cribs and wetting ourselves and eating crayons; meanwhile most kids don't find out about Cthulhu until they're teenagers or even older, and by then he's just a fictional character. Things reinforced during childhood get into the deepest parts of our minds somehow, and they stay there forever. It's also why I guarantee that every single person on this forum is such a mad fan of this show because they consumed it during their early childhood. That's fair enough yeah, honestly my main point was that it'd be much cooler and more mysterious to have him appear and be vanquished in just that story, a la the Midnight monster. Here's hoping RTD doesn't bring him back, but Ncuti already named the Beast as the monster he'd most like to oppose as the Doctor, so I won't hold my breath. Capaldi had the same with the Mondasian Cybermen and that seemingly impossible wish was granted. The less said about Torchwood, the better. I definitely don't want to see him go up against Ncuti. Whilst I may not have been completely on board with RTD before, even I admit he is not the same producer he was back in the 00s and a modern story with the Beast would probably just be an edge lord anti christian story to pander to his base, rather than the thoughtful look comparing different beliefs together and looking at how little we really know about the universe and its creation. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 23:01:59 GMT
I just treat The Stolen Earth/Journey's End as a tribute to B-movie Doctor Who. "Nuthink in ze vurld can stop me noooow!" level stuff. It's a stereotypical mad scientist story. I guess I could see that more clearly if there weren't extremely dramatic choral music over everything and everyone in the show taking it 100% seriously. Still, I like the scene where Davros "reveals" the Doctor. Really he's just playing with him, trying to get inside his head, but damn if what he says doesn't resonate. You start to see how this man manipulated his way into leading an empire. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 23:02:58 GMT
It wouldn't be half as funny if people weren't taking it seriously. That's part of the appeal. Davros being the only OTT one is why he's so great.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 23:04:15 GMT
I won't argue with that, and I'm not the biggest fan of Journey's End myself. Davros' plan is straight-up stupid, and the excuse of "he's insane!!!" just detracts from the methodical carnage we saw in the Stolen Earth. At best, they could have just had it so the reality bomb destroyed our universe, not the rest of the multiverse, but I guess they needed a way to bring Rose back and tie it all together full-circle. Honestly I don't envy these writers at all, they have some serious thinking to do when it comes to this stuff. The other religious figures don't have nearly as much visceral impact because we weren't raised in a society that fears Sutekh or Loki. We were raised in a Christian society and the devil has been a constant cultural presence in our lives, all the way from early childhood. He is the ultimate bogeyman, the archetype of all other evils, which is something touched on in the episode actually. He's been with us since we were in our cribs and wetting ourselves and eating crayons; meanwhile most kids don't find out about Cthulhu until they're teenagers or even older, and by then he's just a fictional character. Things reinforced during childhood get into the deepest parts of our minds somehow, and they stay there forever. It's also why I guarantee that every single person on this forum is such a mad fan of this show because they consumed it during their early childhood. That's fair enough yeah, honestly my main point was that it'd be much cooler and more mysterious to have him appear and be vanquished in just that story, a la the Midnight monster. Here's hoping RTD doesn't bring him back, but Ncuti already named the Beast as the monster he'd most like to oppose as the Doctor, so I won't hold my breath. Capaldi had the same with the Mondasian Cybermen and that seemingly impossible wish was granted. The less said about Torchwood, the better. I definitely don't want to see him go up against Ncuti. Whilst I may not have been completely on board with RTD before, even I admit he is not the same producer he was back in the 00s and a modern story with the Beast would probably just be an edge lord anti christian story to pander to his base, rather than the thoughtful look comparing different beliefs together and looking at how little we really know about the universe and its creation. Oh for sure, in the same way that I'd hate to see Genesis of the Daleks done today, or even a story like World Enough and Time. I can imagine the Cybermen all having a little sing-song and the crowd chanting "HE'S BEHIND YOU" as the patient gropes at Bill from behind. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 12:27:44 GMT
Watched the trailer again. I think it will be a fun romp honestly, a bit like how The Power of the Doctor was (although I imagine this will be better). I'm more excited by the prospect of three specials compared to the laughable 75 minute special we got ten years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 12:30:22 GMT
And I didn't know Tate was in her 50s. She looks good! Even Tennant doesn't look like he's aged all that much since his run.
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Post by iank on Oct 18, 2023 20:51:40 GMT
Watched the trailer again. I think it will be a fun romp honestly, a bit like how The Power of the Doctor was (although I imagine this will be better). I'm more excited by the prospect of three specials compared to the laughable 75 minute special we got ten years ago. To be fair, you did at least get eight other eps that year. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 18, 2023 21:07:36 GMT
Watched the trailer again. I think it will be a fun romp honestly, a bit like how The Power of the Doctor was (although I imagine this will be better). I'm more excited by the prospect of three specials compared to the laughable 75 minute special we got ten years ago. To be fair, you did at least get eight other eps that year. does series 7B even count as episodes? They're so vapid they might as well not exist |
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Post by iank on Oct 18, 2023 21:09:06 GMT
Crimson Horror>allseries4andthe"specials"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 21:12:59 GMT
They're only really worth it for Jenna. That Rings episode is horrifically bad. Probably worse than anything from Series 4 I'd say.
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Post by rushy on Oct 18, 2023 21:20:57 GMT
Crimson Horror>allseries4andthe"specials" DO NOT BLASPHEME DO NOT BLASPHEME DO NOT BLASPHEME |
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Post by rushy on Oct 18, 2023 21:21:29 GMT
They're only really worth it for Jenna. True that. Series 7 is the only time she's likable |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 18, 2023 21:32:20 GMT
Crimson Horror>allseries4andthe"specials" Well I don't know about all series 4 or all the specials. I think Waters of Mars, The Next Doctor, Midnight and the Library and Sontaran Two parters and Pompei are all better, but Crimson Horror is a delightful romp and series 7 B is great apart from a few episodes. It baffles me people say that's a low point for stupid reasons like we don't see enough of Clara's home life. That makes series 7 worse than series that have Anne Droids, farting aliens, monsters made out of fat, Jesus/Tinkerbell/Gollum Doctor flying along on the power of luuuuurrrrrvvvvveeee and Donna completely and utterly undermining the Doctor as a character for all time? Also for those who thought the 50th was an 8 year anniversary party, you ain't seen nothing yet. The 60th is just a total Tennant circle jerk. Remember when people here didn't think Tennant would be the next Doctor, saying that would never happen. Trust me this is more of a celebration of Tennant than 60 years. Also I'll take John Hurt and Ingrid Oliver over Neil Patrick Harris and Miriam Margoyles any day of the week. One pairing was the greatest actor who ever lived and a lovable ducky with a talent for comedy, the other is, well you know who he is LOL, and a woman who though once a good actress, her entire schtick these days seems to be "I said a swear or naughty word like blow job and fart in a posh voice and I'm an old lady. Isn't that outrageous!" |
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