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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2023 11:19:09 GMT
Davros should never have lived past Genesis. No one has ever done anything interesting with him afterwards, except maybe for Moffat briefly toying with the idea of him finally being on his deathbed. But that went nowhere. Saward did a good job with him. His scheming and minuplations in Revelation are a highlight of that story.
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Post by rushy on Nov 6, 2023 13:27:54 GMT
It could've been any old villain. There's nothing specifically Davros-y about that plan.
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 6, 2023 15:02:50 GMT
It could've been any old villain. There's nothing specifically Davros-y about that plan. I don't think so. Who else has that history with the Doctor? Who else would be wanting to create Daleks? Who else has the same history with the original Daleks who'd want to make him pay, but also have trouble just killing him? Sorry but that's a ridiculous claim. To be honest Davros along with the Daleks are fittingly the villains that I don't think ever could be replaced in any of his stories. The Cybermen could in some, including I hate to say even Earthshock, where you could have sontarans in it and it wouldn't be any different. Same applies in reverse for Two Doctor. Meanwhile there are plenty of Master stories where he is just shoe horned in. With Davros however Destiny makes 0 sense if you take him out, Resurrection, well the biggest plot thread makes 0 sense if he's out of it, and even Remembrance whilst he's only there for the end you couldn't have that same dynamic with just an Emperor Dalek that you did with Davros where the two know each other of old.
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Post by rushy on Nov 6, 2023 15:16:33 GMT
They could have easily written the stories differently. There doesn't need to be an explanation for why the Daleks are on Skaro, for example. Resurrection is a hot mess anyway, no saving it.
Remembrance doesn't need Davros to be good. It's just tiresome to me when he turns up. He's only there because by that point it was tradition. The death of Davros in Genesis had an impact that can't be duplicated, and it's an absolute waste to see him become Mavic Chen instead.
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 6, 2023 19:19:51 GMT
They could have easily written the stories differently. There doesn't need to be an explanation for why the Daleks are on Skaro, for example. Resurrection is a hot mess anyway, no saving it. Remembrance doesn't need Davros to be good. It's just tiresome to me when he turns up. He's only there because by that point it was tradition. The death of Davros in Genesis had an impact that can't be duplicated, and it's an absolute waste to see him become Mavic Chen instead. Sorry I couldn't disagree more. He was a great character and villain, the Davros arc is probably the best for the Doctor as a character from Tom = McCoy and he was another icon for the show. Win/win for me. That said I do see a certain appeal for Genesis being the end of his story. I do like the idea of a villain who creates a bigger monster that completely overshadows him. Smallville did this with Lionel Luthor. It was fun watching Lionel think he was a big shot and this huge threat, only for his son to not only eclipse him, but Lionel to then be forgotten about in the wider history of the DC universe. When Lex says no one will remember his name, it makes you think all this time and we've never really cared who Lex's father was before Smallville. You can create a monster, but that won't earn you a place in history. Gotham did this too with Jerome, the brother of the Joker who similarly seemed like a huge deal, but is forgotten about after creating the Joker and similarly we never really thought about who made the Joker beyond Batman, because it doesn't matter to us right now. Davros in Genesis is the same. He thinks through the Daleks he will achieve immortality and reshape the universe "we, I WILL GO ON!" However we know from previous Dalek stories, no one will remember or even care who he was because his creations will overshadow him to such an extent after they dispose of him. Obviously that is ruined by bringing Davros back and making him this legendary figure throughout the universe. Also I do admit that the mechanics of his return in Destiny is lazy, poorly thought out and contrived. Still ultimately I'm willing to overlook those flaws for all the great Davros/Doctor moments and what Davros brings to the series.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2023 20:52:51 GMT
I'm really in two minds about Davros. On the one hand, having him die in Genesis and never appear again would make more thematic sense, but I also really enjoy some of his subsequent appearances, not to mention he is one of the most memorable Who villains in the eyes of the general public. I did not enjoy that Capaldi story with him though, it was wrong on so many levels.
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Post by iank on Nov 6, 2023 21:03:15 GMT
Yeah the "Davros should have stayed dead" thing is such a tired old fan trope. He's a great character so no he shouldn't.
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Post by rushy on Nov 7, 2023 0:28:09 GMT
He's a great character so no he shouldn't. That's not really a great argument, though. It's the mindset that brought us Big Finish's worst excesses. Do we really need 1000 stories with each Doctor and companion? Darth Vader is a great villain, do we want 50 movies about him? Walter White was a great protagonist, so why not have twelve seasons of Breaking Bad instead of five? Davros was fantastic in his original context, taking him out of it and making him functionally immortal (especially weird considering he's a desiccated cripple) cheapens the character, and the final twist in "Genesis" which is that the Daleks have no mercy or desire to work with anything other than themselves. Davros deserved his comeuppance. The Daleks needing him later makes them less powerful, and Davros thinking he can still work with them makes him seem like an idiot. It becomes harder to take either side seriously and so they become the shallow Bug-Eyed Monsters for the Kiddies that Newman feared. Far removed from the depth and impact they had in the 1960s.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2023 22:30:11 GMT
Red Dwarf: Back to Earth is hands down better than ANY of the 2009 Doctor Who specials. Doug Naylor knows how to keep an old show fresh while still being faithful to its origins.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2023 22:43:28 GMT
Die Another Day is the best Bond film of the 21st century.
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Post by mott1 on Dec 26, 2023 22:49:37 GMT
The Italian Job (yes, the original) is not a great film but a tired, dated, jingoistic 60s romp with two-dimensional characters and stupid dialogue (and bad direction). Only the ending is classic.
Mind you I still found watching it on Xmas day preferable to seeing Nc*nti's prancing around...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2023 23:09:34 GMT
The Italian Job (yes, the original) is not a great film but a tired, dated, jingoistic 60s romp with two-dimensional characters and stupid dialogue (and bad direction). Only the ending is classic. Mind you I still found watching it on Xmas day preferable to seeing Nc*nti's prancing around... I find Scarface like that. I love Miami Vice as well as the GTA Vice City game so naturally I decided to watch it. Apart from the music I find it quite a cold and visually unappealing film which lags for much of the runtime.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2023 23:14:03 GMT
Admitting that I love Blade Runner seems to an unpopular opinion these days. I've seen so many comments calling it shit and overrated on various sites. I don't get it really. I've never felt so moved by what is a pretty bleak film for the most part. The Vangelis score is quite possibly the greatest synth score for an 80s movie.
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Post by mott1 on Dec 27, 2023 8:12:06 GMT
I'm really in two minds about Davros. On the one hand, having him die in Genesis and never appear again would make more thematic sense, but I also really enjoy some of his subsequent appearances, not to mention he is one of the most memorable Who villains in the eyes of the general public. I did not enjoy that Capaldi story with him though, it was wrong on so many levels. Largely agree with this. Rushy is largely correct that modern entertainment culture milks its classic characters to death, but as brilliant as Genesis was I did enjoy Davros in Revelation as it was a very different, strong story in its own right, Remembrance too. His treatment since 2005, however, has almost been as bad as The Master's.
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Post by iank on Dec 27, 2023 21:12:23 GMT
Die Another Day is the best Bond film of the 21st century. That's probably actually true.
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