Unpopular opinions thread

[rushy]

Jun 30, 2023 20:25:20 GMT cyberhat said:

That you don't like it is fine, that you compare it to bloody Moffat makes me faint and need smelling salts. Not all comedy is the same

It's that flippancy they both have, and a willingness to sacrifice the story in favor of just working in a pun. When I look at the perfect sci-fi comedy, I look at something like Robert Holmes writing Orbit for Blake's 7. That story is a laugh on every line, but it still has stakes, grit, a logical progression. And it is entirely grounded in the characters. The ship doesn't turn into a pumpkin when they enter the dimension ruled by the Halloween Warlord.

[cyberhat]

What puns are in City of Death? Usually the comedy gets attacked for being "undergraduate". Seems quite pacey to me.

[rushy]

I'll tell you if I ever get the urge to rewatch it

[iank]

Jun 30, 2023 20:25:20 GMT cyberhat said:

Jun 30, 2023 20:38:23 GMT 1 rushy said:
Sorry cyberhat, but my next unpopular opinion is that City of Death really isn't all that much. It's the closest Classic Who comes to a Moffat story, which is just timey-wimey twists and sitcom lines for the sake of it. Very shallow.

I will submit to the greatness of Shada, with one small asterisk - it wouldn't be nearly as good without Denis Carey's natural warmth. And you can't really write that.

That you don't like it is fine, that you compare it to bloody Moffat makes me faint and need smelling salts. Not all comedy is the same, The Chuckle Brothers is not the same as PG Wodehouse. Everything Moffat does seems fuelled by his desperation not to look like a nerd. Douglas Adams is on a mission to look like a nerd, that is why he will always be king to Moffat's cat.

That he's an RTD fan makes it even more comically stupid.

[rushy]

Oh, I'll take Russell over Douglas any day, and I don't care how many copies of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Rubbish Tip he's sold! At least Russell's got me caring about the characters.

[cyberhat]

Jun 30, 2023 22:58:43 GMT rushy said:

Oh, I'll take Russell over Douglas any day, and I don't care how many copies of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Rubbish Tip he's sold! At least Russell's got me caring about the characters.

ah, this explains it all.

[iank]

Doesn't it just? lol

[rushy]

Pair of pantaloons!

[rushy]

Lord help me, if you call Earthshock good, I'll personally chuck you overboard with a leg of ham to draw in the nippers!

[burrunjor]

Let's not get personal about only intelligent people like this guys. Mr Tardis has a healthy respect for Classic Who, whilst Claudia Boleyn is a new who fan girl through and through, yet Claudia is a really bright, amazing, kind person I'd love to get to know better, and Mr Tardis is...... well Mr Tardis. I can't think of a bigger insult to call someone than saying you're Mr Tardis LOL.

Similarly look at the death feuds there have been born between people who are fans of classic who on this very board LOL, yet me and Henshin who is a die hard RTD fanboy got along extremely well and even wrote a story together. Again he's someone I'd like to get to know better outside of the Hive.

It means nothing about your intelligence what kind of tv you like. I know that's hypocritical from me as at one point when I was really, REALLY pissed off at how I had been treated by a lot of new who fans like that psycho Sandifier (also a classic who fan to be fair) and on GB and Reddit I went on about new who being a show for idiots, and called Missy fans idiots and not true fans, but I regret that now and wouldn't do it again, simply because I'd look like a hypocrite given the new who fans I know and like.

At the end of the day it's all just different interpretations of the same idea (the only problem is that New Who tries to link itself to the old, despite being fundamentally different. Different versions should be just that like Lugosi and Lee's Dracula, but New Who in its attempt to be the same as the old, is now in danger of destroying the old completely, by making out that there is no identity to DW at all to link them. That's where I'll still debate to the ends of the earth.)

Still let's not let it get to that extent where we look down on people for different tastes.

Meanwhile in terms of Adams vs Russell? Well Adams clearly had the better imagination and was a vastly superior sci fi writer and honestly i think he'll be remembered for a lot longer. That said however, I'll be controversial and say that Russell actually has a better track record so far for DW. 

Adams only script edited one season and to be honest it's definitely the weakest of the Williams era. Destiny is underrated and a good laugh, whilst City of Death is deserving of its reputation. Sorry Rushy, but it's not at all like a Moffat script. The humour is whimsical and matches Tom and Lalla's personalities perfectly, feels natural to the plot and doesn't turn it into an actual parody. Julian Glover is still a serious, threatening villain. Moffat's humour meanwhile can be too intrusive and reduce it to farce, like Missy being a Mary Poppins character who makes jokes about Dalek testicles, and Santa showing up. On top of that a lot of Moffat's jokes are blokey, 90s sitcom style humour about guys being sex obsessed idiots, which did NOT fit either of his two Doctors. Matt who was like a big overgrown kid looked like a totally different character. Seriously in one episode Matt's horrified that one companion comes onto him, and in another doesn't understand why his companions don't want bunk beds, whilst in others he is using his screwdriver to mime an erection at a lesbians arse, and slapping Clara on the bum? Hearing Capaldi shout "big sexy woman" and "that's how I pick up girls" and act all jealous of Jenna Coleman's boyfriend were not his fondest moments.

Also the time travel element of City of Death makes sense and is consistent, unlike Moffat's crap that just ties itself up in knots and ends up being convenient for the plot. "Oh not saving the Doctor can't be done because it's a fixed point and the universe will collapse, but destroying the earth in the 80s is fine, that's a moment that's in a flux, because we need drama for this plot." 

That said however I'm not keen on the other completed stories in Tom's Adams season. I hate creature from the pit. THAT does take the show into farce when we have Tom giving an alien a blowjob, and the horns of nimon is one of these bland stories that I can barely remember. Russell I will give his due, whilst he couldn't write for the Doctor, he has a higher hit ratio than Adams for the show though to be fair he was there 4 times as long, but still as it stands, great/classic stories Russell wrote are as follows.

The Next Doctor (Great. I'd rather watch this 1000 times than Creature from the Pit or Horns of Nimon once.) 
The Waters of Mars (Classic story, though he had help with it to be fair. Then again so did Douglas for City of Death.) 
Midnight (classic)
Utopia/ The Sound of Drums (Classic, shame about the third act because this is a really intelligent, atmospheric and sinister story that is the only good use of the Master in thirty f*cking years. Even Simm is good at the end.) 
Tooth and Claw (Great, but not a classic.)
Smith and Jones (Pure, escapist fun.)
Turn Left (Definitely overhyped, and some of the politics are cringe like the "it's happening again." Still a decent alternate universe story.) 
Planet of the Dead (Really enjoyable, if a bit silly in places, but still good fun, though again he had help with it.)
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday ( A great finale, that avoids a lot of his usual mistakes like a super powered companion and the Doctor being useless, but it falls down again when you look at it as a sequel to classic Who, but in it's own right it's not bad.)
The Runaway Bride (Granted this might more be for Sarah Parish who is wonderfully OTT and insane as the Spider. The plot is very basic it must be said.)

Overall 12 great episodes. A seasons worth. That said however RTD did start a lot of the crap that would poison the DW brand in general, and his lows were far worse than any of Adams. IE Love and Monsters, the Jesus Doctor, the self indulgent send off for Ten Inch, so perhaps it balances itself out? 

I still say Russell is heading for a fall like Joss Whedon. Whilst he's as far as we know, not the vile person Whedon was to his staff, he's been hyped up to such an insane degree that a backlash is inevitable. Plus there is some dodgy shit in his era that hasn't aged well. IE nasty jokes about fat people, bullying the fans like Ian Levine in really vicious, petty ways, female characters whose entire story arcs revolve around wanting the male heroes dick, cliched portrayals of the working class, characters forcing themselves on others (like that old woman sticking her hand up the Doctors arse.) Not to mention celebrating reality tv that is rightfully looked down on as nasty and vicious these days.

It only takes one SJW to look back on all that and say "RTD was a this and a that" for his whole reputation as a prophet to collapse, and all the enemies RTD has made along the way like the classic era fans, and his un pc statements about the disabled, like ming mongs will catch up with him too, then there is Eccelston who is already putting the boot in too and could easily do a Charisma Carpenter. 

[Deleted]

Jaws 3 is one of the most enjoyable movies ever made.

[Deleted]

RTD wrote better stories than Moffat (most of the time).

[Spark Doll King]

Congo is a pretty fun film, despite how unfaithful it is to it's source material.

[Deleted]

Series 7-9 Kochanski is awesome.

[iank]

She's just not Kochanski. I wouldn't mind, but she isn't even the same character writing-wise - the original Kochanski is a working class gal like Lister, while she's clearly from the upper class. I don't know why they just didn't call her something else...