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Post by Bernard Marx on Jul 15, 2021 9:50:24 GMT
(I hate the way two expletives had to be censored in the swear filter on the command of the board hosts, the cruddy advertising and the fact we don't have full adult freedom here. The navigation is a bit clunky too and the lack of a good lol/like button is a pisser too) Yeah, there's a reason I don't bother opting for those two expletives much anymore on here. They flow much better uncensored, but I suppose you can always opt for "fcuk" or "cnut". However, when it comes to moderation, this board is rather good too. Since the swear filter, I'm unsure if anything's actually been tweaked on here. I'm unsure why Doctor Who forums are almost universally cursed when it comes to moderators (beyond the Hive too, based on what I've heard on this thread- so many of they seem decidedly authoritarian and controlling). I guess the central ethos ought to be "If they want to moderate, they shouldn't be a mod".  |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 15, 2021 10:41:08 GMT
(I hate the way two expletives had to be censored in the swear filter on the command of the board hosts, the cruddy advertising and the fact we don't have full adult freedom here. The navigation is a bit clunky too and the lack of a good lol/like button is a pisser too) Yeah, there's a reason I don't bother opting for those two expletives much anymore on here. They flow much better uncensored, but I suppose you can always opt for "fcuk" or "cnut". However, when it comes to moderation, this board is rather good too. Since the swear filter, I'm unsure if anything's actually been tweaked on here. I'm unsure why Doctor Who forums are almost universally cursed when it comes to moderators (beyond the Hive too, based on what I've heard on this thread- so many of they seem decidedly authoritarian and controlling). I guess the central ethos ought to be "If they want to moderate, they shouldn't be a mod". Well again DW fandom is bad because of the awful treatment it got from the media in the 90s and the 00s. No other genre series was subject to that level of bullying and laughing at its misfortune. All genre series have had their ups and downs in popularity, all have been sneered at by mainstream critics, or seen as a bit uncool etc. However the likes of Star Trek and Buffy, didn't have the guy who killed them, popping up on tv, presenting a totally one sided argument, showing the worst clips and making out that it was just a laughing stock, and having a room full of people trash it. They didn't have the news trash it in one of its leading actors obituaries, they weren't mocked 13 years after they had finished. All of this created a terrible insecurity among fans, and left them open to following anyone who could make it mainstream and popular again, meaning we'd put up with shit that NO other fandom would. Godzilla fans for instance weren't happy for Godzilla's time honoured traits like his atomic breath to be jettisoned in the 98 movie even if it meant getting a big mainstream film, where as Who fans from the start where happy with things like the Doctors costume, the Masters personality and motivation, the Doctors asexuality to be jettisoned if it meant we would be accept by media snobs and hack comedians and snooty people who don't like sci fi. Again though to be fair to DW fans, Godzilla had never been subject to the same nasty treatment as DW. Sadly when the Fitzroy crowd stepped in to fill this role, they became messiah figures to the fans for delivering us from being mocked, and of course anyone who points out the flaws in the messiah figures, is branded a heretic, a sad f*cker who would drag us back to the dark days of the 80s and 90s. At the same time the messiah like status of the saviors of Doctor Who attracts people who want to get a bit of that power for themselves by kissing up to them, which is the level people like Jon Blum and the mods on Gallifrey base and the editor of DW magazine are on. Throw in identity politics and you get like I said a truly toxic cocktail. Identity politics as we have seen with other fandoms is always shallow, needy and a haven for bullies. However in the hands of the cult like Who fandom, it can be used as a justification for them to drop any kind of decency and really embrace bullying the outsiders. Before even they couldn't have gone that far against someone like Bowlestrek just for criticising the show, but now that they can smear him as a Nazi, they feel they can be justified in hurling any type of abuse or low tactics against him. It's terrifying, but still DW fandom is the worst due to a toxic combination of self loathing fanboyism brought on by the shows admittedly shitty treatment, a fandom clique jumping at the right opportunity to monopolise it for themselves, and the usual identity politics creeping its way in. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Jul 15, 2021 11:55:01 GMT
We just have good taste.  "We just have good taste" - a Pertwee era fan  Any era that has season 7 in it deserves to be praised. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 15, 2021 13:15:29 GMT
"We just have good taste" - a Pertwee era fan Any era that has season 7 in it deserves to be praised. Inferno shits on any story from season 24 from a rather large height. Season 10 is also an underrated gem of a season with The Three Doctors still being the best anniversary story, and Carnival of Monsters being an overlooked gem. The Drashiggs are up there with the best one off monsters. Also Frontier in Space is how to do a Master story. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Jul 15, 2021 13:16:35 GMT
Any era that has season 7 in it deserves to be praised. Inferno shits on any story from season 24 from a rather large height. All of it does. Although I reckon Inferno shits on the vast majority of stories, irrespective of era. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 13:27:40 GMT
Any era that has season 7 in it deserves to be praised. Inferno shits on any story from season 24 from a rather large height. Season 10 is also an underrated gem of a season with The Three Doctors still being the best anniversary story, and Carnival of Monsters being an overlooked gem. The Drashiggs are up there with the best one off monsters. Also Frontier in Space is how to do a Master story. It certainly shits on the Hinchcliffe era. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 15, 2021 13:28:20 GMT
Inferno shits on any story from season 24 from a rather large height. All of it does. Although I reckon Inferno shits on the vast majority of stories, irrespective of era. Yes to be fair to season 24 it does LOL. Inferno is one of the best pieces of sci fi in the history of television. Having said that in all fairness to Maxil the Pertwee era does contain some of the shows worst moments. I think season 11 is pretty shit. Death to the Daleks and Time Warrior are brilliant stories, and I like Liz Sladen, but Monster of Peladon is stupid, whilst Invasion of the Dinosaurs and Planet of Spiders are two of the worst stories ever made. Other than his last season though Pertwee's era holds up. His first season is one of the top three in the history of the series. Season 10 is an above average series, whilst 8 and 9 I'd say have the average of most DW series. IE some classic stories mixed in there. (Day of the Daleks, Terror of the Autons, Claws of Axos) Some great stories (Curse of Peladon, The Sea Devils) some above average (The Mind of Evil, The Daemons, Colony in Space) and some stinkers (The Mutants, The Time Monsters etc.) I suppose in this respect his era ironically is comparable to McCoy who also had one shit season (24), one with the usual average of some classics and some okay stories (25) and a season of mostly classics (26) |
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Post by RobFilth on Jul 15, 2021 16:32:10 GMT
whilst Invasion of the Dinosaurs and Planet of Spiders are two of the worst stories ever made. Sacrilege! "Tommy don't want to hit you mister - now go to bed!" I'd have thought Season 9 the worst Pertwee Season myself, apart from Day of The Daleks(with the worst Dalek voices of all time) and the Sea Devils(with awful clunky incidental music), there's little Classic in there. Give me Dinosaurs and Spiders over most of Season 9. "Monster of Peladon" is shit though, I'll give you that. |
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Post by iank on Jul 15, 2021 20:53:26 GMT
lol What? Dinosaurs is terrific. Now Death to the Daleks... that's shite!
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 15, 2021 22:10:28 GMT
lol What? Dinosaurs is terrific. Now Death to the Daleks... that's shite! Dinosaurs is crap. To start with if we are talking about shoddy production values it's at the top. The Dinosaurs are the shittest monsters in the shows history. The Tyrannosaurus can't do anything. It can't run, it can't fight, it just wobbles from side to side. It can't even lie down. It literally just collapses into itself. The actual model used is terrible too. It looks nothing like a Tyrannosaurus. I can't believe you guys rip on Death and The Sea Devils for bad music, but not this story for the Dinosaurs? The story is also nonsensical. Mike Yates is presented as being tragic, yet he is planning on slaughtering billions of innocent people! FFS he's lucky he got off with just a resignation and not life imprisonment for attempted genocide. Also why would he think killing the Doctor was too far when surely he'd kill him anyway when he killed everyone on earth that wasn't part of his little special elite? The politics is also far too on the nose, with Pertwee lecturing the audience at the end, and the Brig is too stupid the way he turns on the Doctor. It also drags too and is yet another invasion earth story that by this stage was wearing thin. Death to the Daleks meanwhile is better in every way. A more original plot. The Daleks and humans being forced to work together, the living city, the Daleks using more sneaky underhanded tactics are all cool ideas. The Exxillons and the city both look amazing, there are some genuinely scary moments. The Zombies at the end always creeped me out as a child, as did the guy melting into his chair. I also loved the idea of all the corpses of the previous Exxillons being scattered around the city. "He didn't get out again did he." Brrr that moment terrified me as a child, thinking of how those Exxilons were just locked in there by the city to rot away into nothing. Also at four episodes it's better paced and the production values all around look better. The sets in Dinosaurs are really quite shoddy, where as the Exxillons city look beautiful and the location work is well done. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 15, 2021 23:07:03 GMT
lol What? Dinosaurs is terrific. Now Death to the Daleks... that's shite! Dinosaurs isn't a favorite personally but preferable as at least it does have a good idea at it's centre and Pertwee and Sladen on top of their game whereas Death is just another generic Terry Nation script albeit blighted by pathetic Daleks, an awful abomination of a score and even Pert and Sladen seem to sleepwalk through this with a dullard guest cast. Invasion is way more generic. It's just another invasion earth, UNIT family story, and it tackles the same issue as the Green Death a year earlier. Death is a lot more original. The living city is a cool new idea, the Exxilons are scary, and the Daleks are not pathetic at all in that story, apart from the suicidal Dalek, but to be fair they have been shown many times to kill their soldiers for failing so maybe he was just cutting to the chase. The Daleks are smarter than the Doctor and the humans and the Exxilons throughout the story. They get round the power shortage first with the guns, take control of the Exxilons and the humans, are the only creatures to make their way through the city in the history of the planet apart from the Doctor, they are also the ones who locate and destroy the beacon and restore power and in the end they outwit the humans and even the Doctor who is unaware of their true motives until it's too late and he can't stop them. Had it not been for a treacherous ally they would have defeated the Doctor in that story. Also the guest cast are not dullards. Bellal is an adorable, lovable sidekick. How can you not love him? The way he is so loyal to the Doctor, hugs Sarah when the Dalek approaches LOL. Also Galloway is a great precursor to Avon. He is ruthless, happy to murder even the Doctor and Sarah for the greater good, and seems to be set up to be another Mavic Chen type, but in a twist ends up being the hero because he is so ruthless and pragmatic. Galloway is what they wanted Mike Yates to be in Invasion. IE a morally grey character who does bad things, but whose downfall you feel bad about. Galloway however works because his crimes are understandable. He is very much a ends justify the means type, but is decent enough to include himself in that. Mike meanwhile out of nowhere turns into a genocidal psychopath that wants to kill billions of innocent men, women and children, yet everybody feels sorry for him and lets him go? |
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Post by iank on Jul 15, 2021 23:23:43 GMT
Death sucks.
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Post by RobFilth on Jul 17, 2021 21:34:28 GMT
Both stories have their flaws, Dinosaurs has some poor model effects and about 1 episodes worth of padding with a pointless vehicle chase on wimbledon common.
Death to the Daleks has a shitty score, feeble Daleks and also poor effects, slow direction and the location and studio work is jarring in it's mismatch.
On the plus side:
Dinosaurs has a good score, largely good direction and a great throw the audience cliffhanger at the end of episode 3. Episode 1 is also brilliantly grim and gritty and sets up intrigue nicely.
Death to the Daleks has good ideas with the living city, the Exxilons are well realized(especially Bellal) and the level puzzle maze of the city in episode 4 is fun.
Ultimately, Dinosaurs has more going for it.
I prefer it anyway by some considerable margin, it's the last time UNIT are portrayed as some kind of influential force.
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 17, 2021 22:40:22 GMT
Yeah you guys are right there is nothing as brilliant as this in Death.  I've seen movies from the 1910's with better Dinosaurs than that. Then there is the fact that Mike is turned into a genocidal maniac that want's to slaughter billions and the Doctor feels sorry for him! I found that utterly unconvincing and I know from experience, as when we had a guy named Mike who joined a bad cult we didn't go easy on him LOL. |
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Post by RobFilth on Jul 18, 2021 7:09:03 GMT
Then there is the fact that Mike is turned into a genocidal maniac that want's to slaughter billions and the Doctor feels sorry for him! I found that utterly unconvincing and I know from experience, as when we had a guy named Mike who joined a bad cult we didn't go easy on him LOL. I would have thought that comparison would've made "Dinosaurs" more convincing myself. I reckon all of the Platypus cult sit crosslegged around a mat chanting "Om Noncey Bonaparte-Mar!" in front of chief guru Abbot Cho-Je Cutrone in the story "Planet of the NAMBLAs" myself. Considering dinosaur effects were generally shit anyway in the 70's(just check out Land that Time Forgot), Doctor Who wasn't really THAT behind the curve. The T-Rex looked like the Chewits monster. |
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