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Post by burrunjor on Jul 5, 2024 21:27:42 GMT
Opinions on this current era aside it has flopped badly. Again usual it was spanked harder than etc.
The question is will RTD's reputation go with it making him a pariah in the industry?
Personally in spite of how much he's had his head up his arse the last year or so, I don't think that would be fair. Personally I think the industry is too cut throat in getting rid of people because they make one flop anyway. It really isn't big on second chances and if anything that's even worse nowadays when we have groups of people online who will love relishing in someone's downfall and then you have the political crap thrown in on top of that and yeah it's the perfect cocktail for guilt free bullying when someone's down.
However where I think it is very unfair is that RTD didn't kill DW. Regardless of how rubbish it is today, the damage was done by Moffat and Chibbers. You can maybe try and blame RTD's first run but that's not fair as not only was it successful and yes love it or hate it, it was important for generations of sci fi fans. By the end of Matt's era the show had shaken off all of his excesses anyway. Gallifrey was back, we had an older, eccentric looking character actor in the part, the classic era's reputation had been reassessed by the mainstream media. It was the perfect opportunity for them to do a porper updated version of classic who, with RTD's excesses like romantic Doctors just being something you could dismiss as teething problems, and in universe the Doctor being mad after the time war LOL.
Moffat as we've been over through many ways, took us to the point of no return. No way could anyone have shaken off the excesses of the Capaldi era like Matt did with RTD and Chibnall ultimately cemented it with the Timeless Children that cast a dark shadow over the entire show. By the time RTD 2 came along did any of us actually care about the show returning to glory? If anything I'm glad it didn't as I wouldn't have wanted another Hinchcliff/Holmes era that I had to accept as canon, which meant I had to accept the Timeless Children and all that other bollocks.
If anything RTD is doing the brand a favour at this point but either way he is the least to blame by far, and it will be a shame if he becomes the complete fall guy simply because he is the last one.
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Post by iank on Jul 5, 2024 21:34:39 GMT
Sadly yes because he's part of the insular bubble and they all just hire each other regardless. Chinballs got the show axed and lo and behold got hired by Netflix.
The spin will probably be that it's all the fans fault, as usual.
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Jul 5, 2024 21:57:03 GMT
Of course he will. In fact, there's a cafe just down the road from me that are looking for new people. Might be worth him sending in his CV.
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Post by Ludders II on Jul 5, 2024 22:12:04 GMT
So long as it's away from DW I don't care.
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Post by cyberhat on Jul 5, 2024 23:12:50 GMT
I do blame RTD for the shows decline. Well him and the BBC together. The show just wont progress. It's been done in the same wacky braindead emotionally incontenent style for 20 years. It's like if the Hartnell era way of making the show was still going on in the mid 80s. To the point that he's alienating the RTD1 fans. It's considered the only way Doctor Who can be done, even when it's been failing for years.
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Post by Ludders II on Jul 5, 2024 23:23:54 GMT
The main thing that puts me off RTD is Davies.  I didn't used to mind him as a person at one time, but since phase 2 I get the distinct impression that we're seeing a lot more of his true colours. I mean his writing has always been massively overpraised to outright dire, but least his mission statement never included shit like retconning Davros and other such ideological bs that he's come up with. |
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Post by cyberhat on Jul 6, 2024 7:49:34 GMT
It needs someone to come along and outright reject the RTD way of doing the show. That's what he did with the classic series. I've never known a show so hostile to progress. It's getting pathological.
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Post by mott1 on Jul 20, 2024 18:40:26 GMT
The main thing that puts me off RTD is Davies. I didn't used to mind him as a person at one time, but since phase 2 I get the distinct impression that we're seeing a lot more of his true colours. I mean his writing has always been massively overpraised to outright dire, but least his mission statement never included shit like retconning Davros and other such ideological bs that he's come up with. Agreed, he comes across more obnoxiously this time round. I didn't much care for his calling people 'ming mongs' etc, but I don't necessarily blame famous creative people for occasionally snapping at the constant abuse online, and having a lot of self-belief is important in the industry. However now he's coming out with absolute tosh about only gay actors playing gay roles and other rubbish. He'll probably always have a career writing about the things he likes most though (variations on himself!) Yet as I've noted elsewhere it seems that new, younger writers are staking out his territory, so maybe not! |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 20, 2024 18:48:45 GMT
The main thing that puts me off RTD is Davies. I didn't used to mind him as a person at one time, but since phase 2 I get the distinct impression that we're seeing a lot more of his true colours. I mean his writing has always been massively overpraised to outright dire, but least his mission statement never included shit like retconning Davros and other such ideological bs that he's come up with. Agreed, he comes across more obnoxiously this time round. I didn't much care for his calling people 'ming mongs' etc, but I don't necessarily blame famous creative people for occasionally snapping at the constant abuse online, and having a lot of self-belief is important in the industry. However now he's coming out with absolute tosh about only gay actors playing gay roles and other rubbish. He'll probably always have a career writing about the things he likes most though (variations on himself!) Yet as I've noted elsewhere it seems that new, younger writers are staking out his territory, so maybe not! Oh god that only gay actors playing gay characters thing was the worst, and ironically it was awful for gay people. So many gay actors f*cking hated that old fashioned idea and even had their careers ruined by it. Rupert Everett was originally a dangerous, edgy, quirky well respected character actor and as soon as he came out for years the only roles he got where as the camp gay best friend, or stupid campy villains. Meanwhile two of the best, most nuanced and sympathetic portrayals of gay men were by John Hurt and William Hartnell, both womanizers in real life, whilst Jon Glover an openly gay man (who apparently shagged Freddie Mercury) was amazing as Lionel Luthor, a creepy, lecherous scumbag who pervs over Martha Kent for years and is the type of guy you can imagine getting his 16 year old secretary pregnant and then forcing her to get a back alley abortion that probably f*cks her up and then fires and blacklists her to stop his equally vile wife from taking him for all he's got LOL. It's called ACTING Russell. |
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Post by mott1 on Jul 20, 2024 19:17:00 GMT
I didn't know that about William Hartnell, which role was that?
The US version of The Birdcage was another important milestone, not only because it got widespread distribution in areas where such movies wouldn't have expected to, but because Robin Williams and John Leguizamo are just as convincing in their roles as the openly gay Nathan Lane is, and the actors were allowed to simply do their considerable best in the roles.
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 20, 2024 19:41:36 GMT
I didn't know that about William Hartnell, which role was that? The US version of The Birdcage was another important milestone, not only because it got widespread distribution in areas where such movies wouldn't have expected to, but because Robin Williams and John Leguizamo are just as convincing in their roles as the openly gay Nathan Lane is, and the actors were allowed to simply do their considerable best in the roles. It was This Sporting Life. Ironically the role that won him the Doctor. He plays a beaten up old coach who was talented, but never got anywhere and it's implied to be because he's gay. He is also implied to have a crush on Richard Harris' character, with someone even asking if he's queer. (He also makes the same comment on Harris' looks that his girlfriend does.) It's not explicitly said. It couldn't be as homosexuality was illegal at that time, but that absolutely was the intention of the director, himself a gay man. For the standards of the time it was an extremely sympathetic and nuanced portrayal. It sadly summed up how lots of gay men were not only fired and blacklisted because of their sexuality, but were always deemed a danger to children too. Hartnell named it as one of his favourite roles, |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Jul 20, 2024 21:35:46 GMT
You'd think the reaction to Empire of Death would humble him. Unfortunately the same Russell will show up next year making the same mistakes.
You got Season 26 because JNT knew that deep down the tone of Season 24 wasn't clicking with fans. Russell is too proud and smug not to concede that he's going down the wrong path.
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Jul 21, 2024 3:33:59 GMT
You'd think the reaction to Empire of Death would humble him. Unfortunately the same Russell will show up next year making the same mistakes. You got Season 26 because JNT knew that deep down the tone of Season 24 wasn't clicking with fans. Russell is too proud and smug not to concede that he's going down the wrong path. When you're an average writer with a bit of a narcissistic streak, two decades of being treated like an unimpeachable god of your industry, declared a genius and a visionary, compared to Shakespeare, etc. will inevitably do a number on your capacity for self-reflection. Add in the entertainment industry's capture by a form of identity politics that's made a social currency of performative self-righteousness, and what we're left with is a man with delusions of grandeur who feels liberated to let all his worst instincts run wild, with no obligation to prove himself to anyone, and no one to hold him accountable for anything he does. It's an ugly thing to behold. |
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Post by RobFilth on Jul 21, 2024 3:43:33 GMT
Of course he will. In fact, there's a cafe just down the road from me that are looking for new people. Might be worth him sending in his CV. Personally I'm not sure he's qualified enough for that role Pepsi. There's a vacancy for cleaners in the public toilets near me which probably suits him better. |
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Post by rushy on Jul 21, 2024 16:22:21 GMT
You got Season 26 because JNT knew that deep down the tone of Season 24 wasn't clicking with fans. Russell is too proud and smug not to concede that he's going down the wrong path. From seasons 22-25, each of the seasons was a direct response to the previous one. 22 - the Sixth Doctor is a marked difference to the indecisive nature of the Fifth, the show experiments with a 45-minute format 23 - tones down the violence, the episodes go back to being 25 minutes long, the Sixth Doctor and Peri get personality overhauls to address complaints about their abrasive dynamic. 24 - the continuity fixation that bogged down the mid-80s is washed away, the stories are once again standalone 25 - A more interesting darker tone |
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