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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Apr 3, 2024 20:37:11 GMT
Whether it's a milestone or not, RTD dropped the ball with the 60th specials. A minisode that references Genesis but also f*cks up that story's main creation is hardly worth it. The show had the budget to make something truly special before it went into a new era with Gatwa, but instead it gave us two episodes that were mid series filler episodes at best and a finale which failed to deliver. Sorry, but JNT would never have acted this way. Whether you like Nemesis or not, the fact that the 25th Anniversary gave us Remembrance is enough to completely invalidate any criticism towards that anniversary year.
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 20:40:58 GMT
I have to disagree here. The 60th was never going to be the 50th. Not even under Moff's watch. It's just not as much of a milestone as half a century. And the specials, whilst heavily skewed towards RTD's era, are not ENTIRELY about him. There were numerous plot points from previous eras. The Star Beast obviously being an adaptation of a Fourth Doctor comic. The Meep's trial is straight from Stones of Blood, another Fourth Doctor story. Nu-UNIT and Kate got started with the Eleventh Doctor (or Downtime) and have no previous affiliation with RTD. Mel Bush is from the Sixth/Seventh Doctor's era (and we get a Sabalom Glitz callback). The Flux and the Timeless Children, from the Thirteenth Doctor. The Toymaker, obviously the First Doctor. Wild Blue Yonder in general isn't a very modern style episode at all, and harkens to those early 60s serials where the first part is just taken up by slow, methodical investigation. You also get one massive Genesis of the Daleks reference with the minisode. We can debate on the quality of how those were all executed, but objectively speaking, it's not entirely about his era. He did weave lots of other things in there. Also worth noting that Davison's idea for a second parody wasn't shot down by RTD specifically, but by its cast. So if he'd written something different, that could still have happened. That's not on RTD. The 60th was entirely about him. It was all about how Donna was the most important companion the Doctor's ever had, and that's why he changed back the way to be with her, it had his own Doctor be the first one to come back. The Genesis callback was simply to "fix" something that wasn't broken about the past rather than respect it. Meanwhile Mel is only there because RTD is a panto guy and loves Bonnie. To be honest the idea that he brought her back but not the Brig when he had the chance is like a sick joke. Bringing back the most unpopular companion and not the most beloved because one suited his tedious, panto tastes and the other was part of the military and he's such a "left winger" he hates the military? Also even with Nu-UNIT he dropped Osgood for no reason to replace her with his diverse character. Meanwhile just because Davison's parody was shot down, doesn't mean that something else couldn't have been arranged. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 20:41:03 GMT
Whether it's a milestone or not, RTD dropped the ball with the 60th specials. A minisode that references Genesis but also f*cks up that story's main creation is hardly worth it. The show had the budget to make something truly special before it went into a new era with Gatwa, but instead it gave us two episodes that were mid series filler episodes at best and a finale which failed to deliver. I don't entirely disagree, but the quality of the specials isn't tied to Burrunjor's accusation of the 60th in general lacking in fan service. It IS there... whether you like what he used it for or not is another matter entirely. |
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 20:42:15 GMT
oh, and I forgot Tales of the TARDIS. If we're counting stuff other than the specials themselves, that exceeds the number of returning characters we had in the 50th by a mile. Oh please. That's a DVD extra level of celebration at best. |
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 20:44:53 GMT
Whether it's a milestone or not, RTD dropped the ball with the 60th specials. A minisode that references Genesis but also f*cks up that story's main creation is hardly worth it. The show had the budget to make something truly special before it went into a new era with Gatwa, but instead it gave us two episodes that were mid series filler episodes at best and a finale which failed to deliver. Sorry, but JNT would never have acted this way. Whether you like Nemesis or not, the fact that the 25th Anniversary gave us Remembrance is enough to completely invalidate any criticism towards that anniversary year. Everything about the 25th year was better than the 60th. A fantastic series with an amazing cast, some of the best who in a long while, a story that celebrated the original in a clever way with Remembrance, another that spoofed the show (and ended up predicting its future with an almost supernatural level of accuracy.) Plus Daleks and Cybermen, the proper big name foes rather than the f*cking Toymaker or whatever those stupid things were in the other specials. |
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Post by cyberhat on Apr 3, 2024 20:46:22 GMT
The only way this man could be any more of an egotist would be for him to write and star in an episode about himself titled "The Legend of Russell T Davies". Dickens, Shakespeare, Christie, Byron, Shelley... these encounters were merely the Doctor psyching himself up for the day he'd meet his true British literary idol, Russell T Davies. The year is 1999, and Chibnall's Space Racist is back. As consolation for his failure to prevent Rosa Parks' arrest, he's determined to undo the only other event in human history with a comparable civil rights impact - the broadcast of Queer as Folk. Will Ncuti and Russell be able to set aside their insatiable lust for each other long enough to save the tapes from destruction? One of the ways of proving the human race is doomed is the fact that RTD has received plaudits equal to Dickens, Byron and Shelley. Yet if your were to describe RTD as literary, it wouldn't pass the laugh test. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2024 20:47:39 GMT
oh, and I forgot Tales of the TARDIS. If we're counting stuff other than the specials themselves, that exceeds the number of returning characters we had in the 50th by a mile. Oh please. That's a DVD extra level of celebration at best. It would've been good if we had the actors (slightly in-character maybe) commentating over the episodes |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 20:53:07 GMT
The 60th was entirely about him. It was all about how Donna was the most important companion the Doctor's ever had, and that's why he changed back the way to be with her, it had his own Doctor be the first one to come back. The Genesis callback was simply to "fix" something that wasn't broken about the past rather than respect it. Meanwhile Mel is only there because RTD is a panto guy and loves Bonnie. To be honest the idea that he brought her back but not the Brig when he had the chance is like a sick joke. Bringing back the most unpopular companion and not the most beloved because one suited his tedious, panto tastes and the other was part of the military and he's such a "left winger" he hates the military? Also even with Nu-UNIT he dropped Osgood for no reason to replace her with his diverse character. Meanwhile just because Davison's parody was shot down, doesn't mean that something else couldn't have been arranged. Isn't Rose RTD's most important companion ever though? Osgood was a minor recurring character, and hardly has a massive following. I wouldn't have brought her back either. She's a notch above that comedian from Planet of the Ood, and that's only because Moff bothered to include her in that Zygon story. Nobody would think twice about her if he hadn't (aside from Big Finish, who've somehow made Yvonne into the main lead of Torchwood lmao). So what if he likes Mel more than the Brig? Unlike Osgood, Mel was at least a main cast member. And we got the Brig in SJA. I also reject the notion that she's only there for panto tastes. She acts much less campy in The Giggle than she did in any of her own episodes. They give her nothing silly to do. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 20:54:16 GMT
oh, and I forgot Tales of the TARDIS. If we're counting stuff other than the specials themselves, that exceeds the number of returning characters we had in the 50th by a mile. Oh please. That's a DVD extra level of celebration at best. It's still cast members returning in-character, in new scenes. It's hardly "just an extra". People still celebrate those Crusade video links William Russell recorded in the 90s. |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Apr 3, 2024 20:55:17 GMT
The Celestial Toymaker in the new series is RTD's version of the character. Same with Mel. The don't connect at all with their TruWho selves.
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 20:56:26 GMT
Oh please. That's a DVD extra level of celebration at best. It's still cast members returning in-character, in new scenes. It's hardly "just an extra". People still celebrate those Crusade video links William Russell recorded in the 90s.Thank you for proving my point. That's exactly what they are on the level of. The type of thing that you'd expect to see on a DVD or a video release, not a big milestone celebration. FFS the Blue Rays had similar extras. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 20:58:32 GMT
The Celestial Toymaker in the new series is RTD's version of the character. Same with Mel. The don't connect at all with their TruWho selves. That's still irrelevant to the question of whether RTD had fan service or not. It's just a criticism of the quality of his work. Which is fine enough. But to say there's so much less fan service than in the 50th just isn't true. Even the 50th plot mostly focused on NuWho stuff, and the only returning Doctor aside from Tennant was Tom in a brief cameo. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 20:59:01 GMT
It's still cast members returning in-character, in new scenes. It's hardly "just an extra". People still celebrate those Crusade video links William Russell recorded in the 90s.Thank you for proving my point. That's exactly what they are on the level of. The type of thing that you'd expect to see on a DVD or a video release, not a big milestone celebration. FFS the Blue Rays had similar extras. It's still more than Davison's little parody sketch tbh...  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2024 21:02:02 GMT
The 60th was entirely about him. It was all about how Donna was the most important companion the Doctor's ever had, and that's why he changed back the way to be with her, it had his own Doctor be the first one to come back. The Genesis callback was simply to "fix" something that wasn't broken about the past rather than respect it. Meanwhile Mel is only there because RTD is a panto guy and loves Bonnie. To be honest the idea that he brought her back but not the Brig when he had the chance is like a sick joke. Bringing back the most unpopular companion and not the most beloved because one suited his tedious, panto tastes and the other was part of the military and he's such a "left winger" he hates the military? Also even with Nu-UNIT he dropped Osgood for no reason to replace her with his diverse character. Meanwhile just because Davison's parody was shot down, doesn't mean that something else couldn't have been arranged. Isn't Rose RTD's most important companion ever though? Osgood was a minor recurring character, and hardly has a massive following. I wouldn't have brought her back either. She's a notch above that comedian from Planet of the Ood, and that's only because Moff bothered to include her in that Zygon story. Nobody would think twice about her if he hadn't (aside from Big Finish, who've somehow made Yvonne into the main lead of Torchwood lmao). I don't even remember that character lol |
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 21:14:18 GMT
The 60th was entirely about him. It was all about how Donna was the most important companion the Doctor's ever had, and that's why he changed back the way to be with her, it had his own Doctor be the first one to come back. The Genesis callback was simply to "fix" something that wasn't broken about the past rather than respect it. Meanwhile Mel is only there because RTD is a panto guy and loves Bonnie. To be honest the idea that he brought her back but not the Brig when he had the chance is like a sick joke. Bringing back the most unpopular companion and not the most beloved because one suited his tedious, panto tastes and the other was part of the military and he's such a "left winger" he hates the military? Also even with Nu-UNIT he dropped Osgood for no reason to replace her with his diverse character. Meanwhile just because Davison's parody was shot down, doesn't mean that something else couldn't have been arranged. Isn't Rose RTD's most important companion ever though? Osgood was a minor recurring character, and hardly has a massive following. I wouldn't have brought her back either. She's a notch above that comedian from Planet of the Ood, and that's only because Moff bothered to include her in that Zygon story. Nobody would think twice about her if he hadn't (aside from Big Finish, who've somehow made Yvonne into the main lead of Torchwood lmao). So what if he likes Mel more than the Brig? Unlike Osgood, Mel was at least a main cast member. And we got the Brig in SJA. I also reject the notion that she's only there for panto tastes. She acts much less campy in The Giggle than she did in any of her own episodes. They give her nothing silly to do. Osgood was extremely popular, hence why they brought her back twice. Those return appearances were both on the fans urging! Her first story was a one off, but people liked Ingrid, and then she was supposed to be dead, but then they had to bring her back again. She also has a big arc about Zygons that's left unfulfilled. Kate doesn't have that many more episodes on Osgood. It's f*cking hilarious that for all their all about change mantra, Osgood is one of the few genuinely popular supporting non companion new who characters, but they refuse to use her? The Paternoster Gang are the only other recurring characters they could use to be honest who were genuinely popular, and Jack, but his habit of getting little Jack out botched that, so yeah. In terms of recurring characters, Osgood and the gang are their whack. PS I'm not even saying he had to bring Osgood back, but in terms of wanting to represent past eras, even then he dumped characters from his mates eras. I also still say that dumping one character out of a double act is petty. Meanwhile I think back in the 00s if you were trying to properly represent the show to a new audience the Brig should have got an episode of his own, more than f*cking Mel. You honestly go on about how, no need to include Osgood, because she is irrelevant and then actually try and argue that the Brig shouldn't have been included in the revival during its early years? Meanwhile yeah they brought him back in the SJA for a minute cameo in a story that wasn't even about him, and even then he was their second choice. Originally Martha Jones was going to be in that story, but Freema being cast in Law and Order meant that she wasn't able to do it, so as a last minute replacement they got the Brig in. Sorry but you don't have a leg to stand on saying Osgood, a popular character in almost as many episodes as Kate and has become a double act with her in a shit ton of spin off material should be axed for being irrelevant, where as the Brig, as big a tradition in old who as the Master and the Cybermen and arguably the Daleks, should return as the second choice for a cameo in a spin off show, whilst Mel a companion who was there for one year, was extremely unpopular gets to be in the 60th as a guest of honour? Funnily enough Mel was not in that many more stories than Osgood. Osgood was in 4 stories, Mel was in 6! RTD loves Bonnie because she is a big name in the panto world, hence why she was in it. That's it. |
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