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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 21:23:18 GMT
I don't know, I've genuinely never heard people say they love Osgood. I certainly don't. I found her mildly embarrassing in the 50th, and actively irritating in every subsequent appearance.
Same goes for the Paternoster Gang. It was a random thing for a while, then it stopped being a thing. Good riddance. They were a dumb team who were introduced with no setup whatsoever. "Oh a Silurian just lives in Victorian London with a Sontaran. And she's lesbian." It's another example of Moffat trying to be iconic and make memes instead of getting on with making the show.
Sure, the Brigadier should've been involved. I never said otherwise. But it's a bit irrelevant now. (Also, wasn't he planned to? I thought the mention to Peru was added because Courtney was sick or something)
Mel was a main companion. I don't care why RTD loves Bonnie. Her comeback was sweet, and I liked that he actually utilised her much-vaunted computer skills.
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 21:25:01 GMT
The Celestial Toymaker in the new series is RTD's version of the character. Same with Mel. The don't connect at all with their TruWho selves. That's still irrelevant to the question of whether RTD had fan service or not. It's just a criticism of the quality of his work. Which is fine enough. But to say there's so much less fan service than in the 50th just isn't true. Even the 50th plot mostly focused on NuWho stuff, and the only returning Doctor aside from Tennant was Tom in a brief cameo. The 50th could have done more to celebrate the past, absolutely 100 percent. Even though I really enjoyed it, and probably still would if I put it on again (though it's kind of sad knowing what came after.) I totally get why a lot of people were pissed at McGann. However its story was about all of the Doctors uniting to save Gallifrey from the Daleks. It's narrative actually bridged the gap between old and new who by having the classic Doctors play the most crucial role in the time war, but not in a way that undermined old who (as it's just another adventure for them that didn't interfere with their stories.) The 60th was about the Doctor revisiting the people from the 10th Doctors life because they were the most important to him. He needed that old face because Donna was so important, and he eventually decides to retire to be with her because again she is soooo important she's the one who means the most to him. Any call backs to the past where just RTD indulging in what he wanted to see, rather than because they were important. Toymaker because the Master had just appeared and he wanted a Simm redux villain, and Bonnie because of his panto crap, and an old comic he loved from the 80s. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 21:30:46 GMT
The impression I got was that the Doctor needed a break, and decided subconsciously on Donna/10. It wasn't because she was the most important, but because she represented a moment in his life when he was very comfortable with himself. And yes, you could argue there are millions of other moments like that in the Doctor's life... but that's also the point. It was a subconscious whim. In-universe, that is.
I still don't see why RTD picking the parts of canon that he wanted to explore is a bad thing? Bringing back the Toymaker, Mel and the Star Beast are not inherently awful ideas. A big part of writing is doing what you feel is interesting.
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 21:31:43 GMT
I don't know, I've genuinely never heard people say they love Osgood. I certainly don't. I found her mildly embarrassing in the 50th, and actively irritating in every subsequent appearance. Same goes for the Paternoster Gang. It was a random thing for a while, then it stopped being a thing. Good riddance. They were a dumb team who were introduced with no setup whatsoever. "Oh a Silurian just lives in Victorian London with a Sontaran. And she's lesbian." It's another example of Moffat trying to be iconic and make memes instead of getting on with making the show. Sure, the Brigadier should've been involved. I never said otherwise. But it's a bit irrelevant now. (Also, wasn't he planned to? I thought the mention to Peru was added because Courtney was sick or something) Mel was a main companion. I don't care why RTD loves Bonnie. Her comeback was sweet, and I liked that he actually utilised her much-vaunted computer skills. Nope he was never to come back, that was a myth, which I bought into because I assumed he would have returned. Meanwhile Osgood, who I'll be honest I didn't want to get focused on as that was just one example, was extremely popular. I'll be honest I didn't like the meta thing, I think the actress was better than the character, but definitely something could have be done with her on tv, and yes she still has a big following. You're honestly bullshitting if you think she had no following. www.cbr.com/doctor-who-osgood-deserves-to-be-a-companion/www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/why-osgood-is-so-popular-77484.htmcollider.com/all-time-fan-favorite-doctor-who-characters-that-the-show-should-bring-back/Meanwhile the Paternoster Gang were vastly superior to any RTD era supporting characters. As good an actor as Bernard Cribbins was, f*ck me, give the Paternoster Gang over Donna's dreary family. At least they were actual sci fi characters and starred in fun episodes, rather than infantile shit like Partners in Crime or a hot mess like Journey's End. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 21:35:32 GMT
Alright, so she had a following. I still wouldn't have brought her back LOL. I'm team RTD on this. You wouldn't see Clara come back under my leadership either. In fact, I'd be sorely tempted to add a line suggesting that Maisie Williams' character dragged her back to Gallifrey to be re-inserted into the timeline.
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 21:36:07 GMT
The impression I got was that the Doctor needed a break, and decided subconsciously on Donna/10. It wasn't because she was the most important, but because she represented a moment in his life when he was very comfortable with himself. And yes, you could argue there are millions of other moments like that in the Doctor's life... but that's also the point. It was a subconscious whim. In-universe, that is. I still don't see why RTD picking the parts of canon that he wanted to explore is a bad thing? Bringing back the Toymaker, Mel and the Star Beast are not inherently awful ideas. A big part of writing is doing what you feel is interesting. Not always if you are doing someone else's story. As we've been over Sam Raimi was also a big f*cking baby in not wanting to do Venom, one of the most important villains in Spider-Man so he could do a crap, third rate villain like the Vulture because he grew up with that one, and similarly Robert Holmes was also a big f*cking baby for not even bothering with the Cybermen and not being a professional. Now in all fairness I'm not saying RTD had to have the mainline villains in the 60th as they had been done to death, but the point is that any of the few things from the past he brought back were certainly not to try and represent the show during its 60th like at least the classic Doctors were in the 50th. It was just him playing with the few things he likes from the past that aren't to do with him. Meanwhile that absolutely was meant to be why he went back to Donna and it was ridiculous that she was made into the most important person again. I f*cking hate that character. |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Apr 3, 2024 21:37:11 GMT
You wouldn't see Clara come back under my leadership either. Just who are the young lads going to whack off to then? Stop being so damn selfish.  |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Apr 3, 2024 21:37:52 GMT
I say young lads, I really mean me.
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 21:40:21 GMT
I just find these decisions endearing. I like it when the writer's own personality shines in their work. Especially if it's a franchise. It adds some variety. Like Terrance killing the Cybermen in the 20th, or Holmes obsessing over vegetarianism in Two Doctors. It just cracks me up.
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 21:43:02 GMT
I mean, Darrow made Blake's 7 entirely his own even in that audio drama he wrote. Joking about Servalan being a lesbian, and making Orac/Zen refuse Tarrant and Dayna's orders just out of personal spite against David Maloney. How can you not love that?
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 21:43:59 GMT
Alright, so she had a following. I still wouldn't have brought her back LOL. I'm team RTD on this. You wouldn't see Clara come back under my leadership either. In fact, I'd be sorely tempted to add a line suggesting that Maisie Williams' character dragged her back to Gallifrey to be re-inserted into the timeline. Why because the wheelchair girl is so fantastic? I don't have anything against the wheelchair girl to be clear, but that's the point. It could have been Osgood and made 0 difference. When you need someone to be Kate's companion in your story and the one you have is very popular with the show and its fans, getting rid of her is either just being contrarian for the sake of it, or it's being desperate to stamp your identity on every tiny facet of the show which is not a good thing to do. Similarly whilst I'm no fan of Clara spitefully undoing her happy ending and having her die young is also NOT a good thing either. (Assuming you weren't joking.) Writers need to be professionals when writing characters. Not just give in to their fanboy agendas, or their egos of I want it all to go my way. People who decided to kill or stick it to characters they don't like always leads to bad writing and drive me up the wall. Again to show I'm not biased Terrance Dicks, who was a great writer, was a petty, vindictive asshole in his treatment of the Cybermen and DID affect their reputation all because he wasn't a professional when writing the 5 Doctors. |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 21:54:07 GMT
No, she's not fantastic, but I would've just had someone else (what's John Levene up to these days?). Maybe a military advisor as a subversion of the Doctor's role. But that's just my personal taste. Could even be a military advisor in a wheelchair if need be. Those rockets would make more sense from a soldier anyway.
Yes, I'd absolutely undo Clara's stupid 'long way round' ending. I realise I'm petty and even hypocritical with this, but she's meant to die at the street anyway. And it'd be a nice morbid twist of the knife for longtime viewers. Of course I wouldn't just drop that explanation randomly, but I'd have it in there if the Doctor went back to Gallifrey (I'd love to do a story where the Time Lords establish various separate colonies).
I like a mixture of both. I want some agenda, but in a reasonable amount. A little selfishness is healthy. XD
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 3, 2024 22:50:02 GMT
I mean, Darrow made Blake's 7 entirely his own even in that audio drama he wrote. Joking about Servalan being a lesbian, and making Orac/Zen refuse Tarrant and Dayna's orders just out of personal spite against David Maloney. How can you not love that? What Servalan being a lesbian? Also I didn't know he and David Maloney were on bad terms? |
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Post by rushy on Apr 3, 2024 23:38:00 GMT
What Servalan being a lesbian? Also I didn't know he and David Maloney were on bad terms? Probably just an in-joke about Pearce's real life exploits haha. Maloney wanted to develop Avon into a more heroic character after Blake left. Darrow hated this idea and openly said in interviews that he sabotaged Maloney's efforts by playing up Avon as an unpredictable psychotic (as he felt it was the only way to justify Avon being out of character). He also had a fierce argument with Maloney on set about Avon giving Tarrant and Dayna access to the computers. Maloney eventually forced him to go along with it by saying they can't have a show otherwise, but Darrow was very bitter about it and brought it up in multiple interviews. He also obsessively retconned that decision in every single Blake's 7 story he ever wrote. In "Erebus" (his audio drama), Avon reprograms Orac and Zen to give priority to him. In "Rock Star" (a short story he wrote), he does the same exact thing. In the "Lucifer" novels, Orac doesn't even have a key anymore, he only responds to Avon's voice. Darrow and Maloney did record the commentary for Terminal together, so they're on civil terms, although I'd say it was slightly tense. Maloney had no patience for his humour. I think Vere Lorrimer indulged him much more, which is why series 4 is so different. |
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Post by Ludders II on Apr 3, 2024 23:56:58 GMT
Oh please. That's a DVD extra level of celebration at best. It would've been good if we had the actors (slightly in-character maybe) commentating over the episodes Maureen O'Brien thought Tales from the TARDIS was shit, according a mate who's a convention goer. Couldn't agree more. |
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