|
Post by The Yak Emperor on May 2, 2024 19:05:35 GMT
For me it's just something to do really, though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least a tiny bit hopeful that it's good. The show's been crap before and recovered, so who knows.
|
|
|
Post by ClockworkOcean on May 2, 2024 20:02:30 GMT
No. It's dead. It's been dead for at least seven years. There's no coming back from this. Ever.
|
|
|
Post by rushy on May 2, 2024 20:10:12 GMT
Any successful reboot would rely on RTD/Moffat/Chibnall not being there. It desperately needs to be more sincere and unpredictable again. Not this weird bubblegum show it's become.
|
|
|
Post by The Yak Emperor on May 2, 2024 20:28:58 GMT
No. It's dead. It's been dead for at least seven years. There's no coming back from this. Ever. But it came back from the pits of the Colin Baker years, and we got some of the most creative and interesting stories just after the disastrous season 24.
|
|
|
Post by The Yak Emperor on May 2, 2024 20:36:33 GMT
The only problem is that it could never thrive under the modern-day BBC, which is by all accounts a sinking ship. It needs an A24 sort of treatment, where different writers and directors can have a crack at each episode, a bit like a modern-day Twilight Zone. Go the whole hog with the anthology format. I never cared for season arcs, they've never really worked for a reason.
|
|
|
Post by iank on May 2, 2024 21:38:30 GMT
Er, no and I'm baffled at those of you who still are. I don't have Disney+, am not getting it and even if I did I wouldn't. I watched no more than 10 minutes of the entire Pisstaker era, and I won't be watching any of this tripe. It is dead, and it is unrecoverable.
|
|
|
Post by zarius on May 7, 2024 7:37:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by burrunjor on May 7, 2024 9:14:30 GMT
No. It's dead. It's been dead for at least seven years. There's no coming back from this. Ever. But it came back from the pits of the Colin Baker years, and we got some of the most creative and interesting stories just after the disastrous season 24. Not the same thing at all. To start with Colin was a good Doctor and season 22 is fine. (An opinion that was shared by the general public who didn't contrary to popular belief abandon the show at that point.) Second of all whilst I completely agree with you that season 23 and 24 are the worst of the classic era, they didn't do the damage that the revival seasons have done. They were just crap stories. It's easy to get over crap stories, or seasons. Just do good ones LOL. New Who's crap however is quite unique in that it's not just bad in the present. It has to drag down the entire history with it. The reason I have such a hatred of Missy (you may have noticed) isn't simply because she's a crap version. It's because the history of the Master has to be rewritten to make her fit. Big Finish stories, that are performed by actors from the original, now have to have the burned Master as wanting to shag the Doctor, official biographies of Delgado have to actively leave out important behind the scenes details and lie that he wanted the Master to shag Pertwee. Factual articles on tv tropes and wikipedia have to rewrite history (and ban you for life if you try and edit it in as it was like I did on tv tropes. Hilariously they told me I'm editing with an agenda!) Beyond simply the Master this line of thinking has sadly crept its way into the show and character. Now it's received wisdom that the Doctor can be absolutely anyone, destroying him as a character, that the show has no canon, so nothing matters, there are no stakes etc. As an entire generation of fans have grown up with this shit as the dominant mantra, then ironically any attempt at doing actual DW will be seen as limiting it, or not understanding it by them. Whilst they don't represent even the majority of fandom, sadly as they are the most vocal and as tv execs are slave to the young audience, they can end up having more of an influence than even fans my age. Worse than that however, as politics has been dragged into it now you dare not disagree with a lot of the modern shit revisions without being called a bigot as well. Not to sound egocentric, but when a guy like me gets told frequently that he has a problem with women in leading roles what chance does anyone have? (Even on the Hive I got told that, by our former member Penny.) That would be me, the leading insufferable bore on unconventional female singers in the 00s on any forum LOL, the guy who spoke out against misogynistic treatment of female singers when he was a teenager in the 00s, who has created female led series on his channel that star actresses from genre shows! Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying this makes me Sylvia f*cking Pankhurst. I'm not even saying that means I'm not a misogynist in my personal life. I'm not for the record LOL, but still obviously just writing female heroes wouldn't mean that. I'm still a total nobody, but yeah I don't think you can say I'm someone who just isn't used to seeing women in leading roles or I'm a misogynist based on can I accept them leading a genre show. Here actual quotes from Gallifrey Base to me. “Whiny little bigot, when we see women or non-whites promoted to primary hero figures, that’s enough for manbabies like you to bitch and moan about how oppressed they are.”“It would seem burronjor finds the Thirteenth Doctor a sexually dominating figure and that makes him uncomfortable. I’d suggest his anxiety about that is more a matter for himself and a professional working in confidence, rather than for the BBC to make changes to accommodate. I mean they don’t even take strobe lighting off shows to accommodate people with photo-sensitive epilepsy – they just give a warning. Accommodating people who have fringe sexual hang ups they’re uncomfortable with, so they’re not triggered, isn’t very practical.”“You sound awfully threatened by inclusive casting. I genuinely think this is where a lot of this anger towards Jodie’s casting comes from – loss of privilege feels awfully like discrimination don’t you think?”
Meanwhile Sophie Aldred didn't seem to think I was so bad? Again however the simple fact that you don't think a female Doctor flows as well as the previous men, because you want them to be believable as the same person, and it's hard to imagine it's still Hartnell under a woman's face (same way it was hard to imagine him kissing Billie Piper and I called that out as being wrong without any backlash.) That must automatically mean that I hate the very idea of women playing leading roles despite the evidence to the contrary. With this in mind what old school fans are going to want to defend the show and get the same kind of abuse that I did? Guys who haven't made their own female led series to use as back up when smeared, who the sexist label might stick to as a result? Like Clever Dick Films for instance? Then on top of this we have RTD trying to make the show an LGBT only club, and trying to rewrite history to say that the Doctor was always gay, so again any attempt to simply have the Doctor be an asexual professor will similarly be seen as homophobic? With this in mind, what producer or writer will want to take it on? If they actually try and do a proper version of the show they will be called homophobic/transphobic/misogynistic by its fandom with the show then being placed in the centre of the culture wars. Said producer could then end up being Gina Carano'd no matter how mild and reasonable they try to be (like Gina herself LOL) Alternatively if they try and make it to suit the commandants of fandom's tastes and carry on as it is now, it will tank among mainstream viewers and the other 95 percent of fandom. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm not saying it's completely impossible. An alternate sequel made by someone outside the BBC bubble that quickly wins a new audience could just about evade these problems, but it would have to be some of the best sci fi ever seen. I mean it would have to make the Hinchcliff era look like season 23 to win round a new audience that fast LOL. It's a task of absolutely Herculian proportion to say the least. My greatest fear is it dragging Classic Who down with it. These toxic myths like no continuity, no characterisation will drive away potential new viewers. Furthermore can you imagine a new fan reading DW wiki and looking at the turgid mess the lore is and not being turned away? Then there is the fandom where any dissenting voices, well look above. When you compare it what the show was like for me in the 90s, when it was just an innocent bit of escapism, to go back to that again is a Herculian task.
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on May 7, 2024 13:10:03 GMT
"I wanted it to feel like 2024 on screen" Why does that not reassure me?
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on May 7, 2024 15:07:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The Yak Emperor on May 8, 2024 13:21:20 GMT
Doctor Who is a gay black man...10 years ago that would've been a punchline to a joke. How did we let this happen? This is why gatekeeping is so necessary. If you enjoyed anything after 2017, you're not a real Doctor Who fan, and I totally stand by that.
|
|
|
Post by rushy on May 8, 2024 14:51:56 GMT
Doctor Who is a gay black man...10 years ago that would've been a punchline to a joke. How did we let this happen? This is why gatekeeping is so necessary. If you enjoyed anything after 2017, you're not a real Doctor Who fan, and I totally stand by that. RIP my fandom. Cruelly executed in front of a firing squad of yaks
|
|
|
Post by zarius on May 8, 2024 17:20:14 GMT
"I have the whole of the television history in my head...I don't count the other stuff"
|
|
|
Post by zarius on May 8, 2024 17:21:21 GMT
Doctor Who is a gay black man...10 years ago that would've been a punchline to a joke. How did we let this happen? This is why gatekeeping is so necessary. If you enjoyed anything after 2017, you're not a real Doctor Who fan, and I totally stand by that.
|
|
|
Post by The Yak Emperor on May 9, 2024 14:46:12 GMT
Something I hope we've all learned is that the showrunner role shouldn't go to a fan. The guys running it in the 60s and 70s weren't "fans" of the show, they were drama writers who took commissions. When people who had been fans in the 60s and 70s came in in the 80s, it all went to shit. You can be a fan of something and not understand what makes it good. I love Tom Baker, Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy, Katy Manning, Sophie Aldred, even David Tennant and Catherine Tate, et al. I don't ever wanna see them in the f*cking show again. The past 5 or so years have been bogged down with continuity and lore and dredging up the past and I just Do. Not. Care. It's a mad professor with a space-time machine who gets into scrapes with his plucky companions. Why is that so hard to do well? I've suggested before that it should embrace its anthology format with a different writer and director each week, but you don't even need to go to such extremes to wring good stories from a premise like that. I'm tired of hearing about the Master, the Rani, the Valeyard, Rassilon, Omega. Literally who could give a shit. Have the Doctor sleuthing around in ancient Troy or the distant future, I don't like that he has a rogues gallery. He's just not that kind of character. Was the Valeyard really that interesting anyway? The "I was the Doctor all along" twist feels like it was pulled out of Saward's arse last minute, and it doesn't go anywhere. Like I said about POTD, any hack writer could've written that in as a shock-horror moment, but it carries no weight because the character is such a boring bore who does nothing but bore the life out of me in those interminable courtroom scenes. Rassilon and Omega are just mustache-twirling villains. The Rani's overwrought science schtick is embarrassing, she appears in two embarrassing stories written by a pair of writers who were thoroughly out of their depth, and the people who want her back are embarrassing.
|
|