A female Doctor: my A.I creation

[henshin]

I've really been thinking about Doctor Who, of late, with how it handled its first female Doctor. 

But, not so much the Doctor herself, but what followed; dialling the the Doctor back to Ten. 

I'm old enough to remember that Tweets and Comments like "David Tennant will return" attracted audible groans, and simple one line explanations as to why this could never happen. 

All of which, could have been avoided. Not the female Doctor, mind you, but the utterly creative bereft steps to try and appeal to the fans again. That's what got us here - lack of imagination. Had they addressed why the Doctor's gender changed, and gave us a likeable character, it could have worked. 

In fact, there's an explanation within the lore that can work! Remember Night of the Doctor, and the serum that Eight took? What if one of the symptoms of said serum, given the desperation of the Time War, was a likely risk of Timelord DNA be destabalised in such a way that rendered future regenerations physically inconsistent. There's literally a line for this in the episode where she goes "you can be male, female, old, young". 

To me, this work of my applying my imagination to A.I looks more authentic as a Doctor than what we got: 







The sell of a likeable female Doctor was always there. 

[Deleted]

Nah. She needs to be more of a cougar if anything.

[henshin]

Like a Joanne Lumley type of look?

[Deleted]

I suppose lol, even a younger woman might work as long as she wasn't overly made-up or conventionally "model" attractive.

[iank]

I just still don't understand why a male character cannot remain a male character. Even if it was a competent actress under a competent writer, it would still fundamentally be a different character. Men and women are not the same, and they are not interchangeable.
The Doctor - the real Doctor at least, not the ever more unrecognisable New Poo bastardisation - is a man.

[burrunjor]

Dec 4, 2023 6:26:29 GMT henshin said:

I've really been thinking about Doctor Who, of late, with how it handled its first female Doctor. 

But, not so much the Doctor herself, but what followed; dialling the the Doctor back to Ten. 

I'm old enough to remember that Tweets and Comments like "David Tennant will return" attracted audible groans, and simple one line explanations as to why this could never happen. 

All of which, could have been avoided. Not the female Doctor, mind you, but the utterly creative bereft steps to try and appeal to the fans again. That's what got us here - lack of imagination. Had they addressed why the Doctor's gender changed, and gave us a likeable character, it could have worked. 

In fact, there's an explanation within the lore that can work! Remember Night of the Doctor, and the serum that Eight took? What if one of the symptoms of said serum, given the desperation of the Time War, was a likely risk of Timelord DNA be destabalised in such a way that rendered future regenerations physically inconsistent. There's literally a line for this in the episode where she goes "you can be male, female, old, young". 

To me, this work of my applying my imagination to A.I looks more authentic as a Doctor than what we got: 







The sell of a likeable female Doctor was always there. 

Gee Henshin I never would have guessed that your female Doctor would have looked like a gorgeous, dynamic, kick ass Asian babe, dressed in dark, snappy, fabulous clothes. 

Not having a go btw, I think it's wonderful to have a type like that in your work. Gives it a really distinctive style. We all know my female Doctor would be hugely tall (and could beat yours up because she'd have 3 feet on her LOL), a crazy character actress known for playing psycho show stealing villains, unbelievably hammy and OTT, middle aged, a nose that takes up most of her face, and jet black hair too LOL. 

Maxil's I guess would be a blonde woman in 80s clothes with hair like a bouncy castle, whose dorky and awkward as can be, but feisty particularly when protecting some kids from some gross, squicky 80s monster brought to life with 80s practical effects LOL. 

Meanwhile I'm sorry whilst I LOVE the look for this female Doctor. (What actress is it based on?) I'm just against the idea of a female Doctor in general. 

Whilst DW "fans" on reddit and twatter would say it's because I hate women heroes (an astute observation for me of all people.) I actually think it is more the case of it just doesn't mesh with what came before. In the original series all of the Doctors were meant to be the same people under their new face. The differences in personality where only to do with the outer persona, and also from the Doctor naturally changing as a character. They all were clearly meant to have the same consciousness and mind. (This isn't even just my fanboy analysis. Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy all said as such, as did Terrance Dicks, Terry Nation, Philip Hinchcliff, Bob Holmes and JNT too.) 

Now with this in mind, a woman absolutely could play a similar type of character to the Doctor, people often get bogged down in can a woman play this type of character, which is the wrong question. Men and women can play ALL of the same types of characters in my mind. It's more can I buy that this woman is still actually William Hartnell under her new face? With Tom Baker, Jon Pertwee, Peter Davison, and Sylvester McCoy I can just about buy that they are Hartnell who have merely changed through being in a different body, years of experience, but a woman? Sorry but it's too big a physical change for Hartnell, and again I don't think that is exactly sexist or transphobic to acknowledge that considering you know trans people would agree that there is a physical difference more than anyone, hence why they, eh change! 

I've been consistent about this throughout and been opposed to a Doctor getting off with Billie Piper, or a gay Doctor for similar reasons. Try and imagine that's Hartnell and I laugh. I don't laugh when it's Pertwee beating people up, as to start with that's not actually too far removed LOL, but even then I can buy that now in the body of a big bloke, and again with some tweaks to his outer persona, that is still Hartnell doing that. 

A woman, or indeed a romantic or gay Doctor, opens up the possibility that he can be anyone. You can't say "oh no that's not the Doctor" about any actor if he can go from Hartnell to that gorgeous babe above, or Jodie, or Paloma Faith, or Maxil's 80s babe. Once that happens then NOTHING is safe about the character and the show. All of this ultimately happened when they cast a female Doctor. 

I do agree that it didn't need to be quite that bad, but still sooner or later something like that would have happened as the flood gates were opened. 

The only way for it too work is if you were to do a remake or an alternate universe DW (if there is any franchise that needs a multiverse its DW.)

However even then it's not an idea I'm particularly attracted too, ironically because I feel that it's better to create new female heroes than recycle the same old male ones. Even when it works like say Elementary, a fantastic series (you should check it out if you haven't btw. You'd LOVE it. A Doctor like hero and a gorgeous, snappy, well dressed Asian babe fighting crime? It was tailor made for you LOL.)

Still even then you wouldn't say that Elementary is as big or important a step for women as say Buffy, or even that Watson is now a character that people think of as being a woman, or a woman as much as a man. Really new heroes offer up better representation every time for me, though again I wouldn't opposed in a remake, I'd more just think it was a novelty. 

[henshin]

Dec 4, 2023 9:44:56 GMT burrunjor said:

Dec 4, 2023 6:26:29 GMT henshin said:

I've really been thinking about Doctor Who, of late, with how it handled its first female Doctor. 

But, not so much the Doctor herself, but what followed; dialling the the Doctor back to Ten. 

I'm old enough to remember that Tweets and Comments like "David Tennant will return" attracted audible groans, and simple one line explanations as to why this could never happen. 

All of which, could have been avoided. Not the female Doctor, mind you, but the utterly creative bereft steps to try and appeal to the fans again. That's what got us here - lack of imagination. Had they addressed why the Doctor's gender changed, and gave us a likeable character, it could have worked. 

In fact, there's an explanation within the lore that can work! Remember Night of the Doctor, and the serum that Eight took? What if one of the symptoms of said serum, given the desperation of the Time War, was a likely risk of Timelord DNA be destabalised in such a way that rendered future regenerations physically inconsistent. There's literally a line for this in the episode where she goes "you can be male, female, old, young". 

To me, this work of my applying my imagination to A.I looks more authentic as a Doctor than what we got: 







The sell of a likeable female Doctor was always there. 

Gee Henshin I never would have guessed that your female Doctor would have looked like a gorgeous, dynamic, kick ass Asian babe, dressed in dark, snappy, fabulous clothes. 

Not having a go btw, I think it's wonderful to have a type like that in your work. Gives it a really distinctive style. We all know my female Doctor would be hugely tall (and could beat yours up because she'd have 3 feet on her LOL), a crazy character actress known for playing psycho show stealing villains, unbelievably hammy and OTT, middle aged, a nose that takes up most of her face, and jet black hair too LOL. 

Maxil's I guess would be a blonde woman in 80s clothes with hair like a bouncy castle, whose dorky and awkward as can be, but feisty particularly when protecting some kids from some gross, squicky 80s monster brought to life with 80s practical effects LOL. 

Meanwhile I'm sorry whilst I LOVE the look for this female Doctor. (What actress is it based on?) I'm just against the idea of a female Doctor in general. 

Whilst DW "fans" on reddit and twatter would say it's because I hate women heroes (an astute observation for me of all people.) I actually think it is more the case of it just doesn't mesh with what came before. In the original series all of the Doctors were meant to be the same people under their new face. The differences in personality where only to do with the outer persona, and also from the Doctor naturally changing as a character. They all were clearly meant to have the same consciousness and mind. (This isn't even just my fanboy analysis. Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy all said as such, as did Terrance Dicks, Terry Nation, Philip Hinchcliff, Bob Holmes and JNT too.) 

Now with this in mind, a woman absolutely could play a similar type of character to the Doctor, people often get bogged down in can a woman play this type of character, which is the wrong question. Men and women can play ALL of the same types of characters in my mind. It's more can I buy that this woman is still actually William Hartnell under her new face? With Tom Baker, Jon Pertwee, Peter Davison, and Sylvester McCoy I can just about buy that they are Hartnell who have merely changed through being in a different body, years of experience, but a woman? Sorry but it's too big a physical change for Hartnell, and again I don't think that is exactly sexist or transphobic to acknowledge that considering you know trans people would agree that there is a physical difference more than anyone, hence why they, eh change! 

I've been consistent about this throughout and been opposed to a Doctor getting off with Billie Piper, or a gay Doctor for similar reasons. Try and imagine that's Hartnell and I laugh. I don't laugh when it's Pertwee beating people up, as to start with that's not actually too far removed LOL, but even then I can buy that now in the body of a big bloke, and again with some tweaks to his outer persona, that is still Hartnell doing that. 

A woman, or indeed a romantic or gay Doctor, opens up the possibility that he can be anyone. You can't say "oh no that's not the Doctor" about any actor if he can go from Hartnell to that gorgeous babe above, or Jodie, or Paloma Faith, or Maxil's 80s babe. Once that happens then NOTHING is safe about the character and the show. All of this ultimately happened when they cast a female Doctor. 

I do agree that it didn't need to be quite that bad, but still sooner or later something like that would have happened as the flood gates were opened. 

The only way for it too work is if you were to do a remake or an alternate universe DW (if there is any franchise that needs a multiverse its DW.)

However even then it's not an idea I'm particularly attracted too, ironically because I feel that it's better to create new female heroes than recycle the same old male ones. Even when it works like say Elementary, a fantastic series (you should check it out if you haven't btw. You'd LOVE it. A Doctor like hero and a gorgeous, snappy, well dressed Asian babe fighting crime? It was tailor made for you LOL.)

Still even then you wouldn't say that Elementary is as big or important a step for women as say Buffy, or even that Watson is now a character that people think of as being a woman, or a woman as much as a man. Really new heroes offer up better representation every time for me, though again I wouldn't opposed in a remake, I'd more just think it was a novelty. 

Well, Burronjor is clearly applying for a serving. So, serve I shall ahhaha

Gee Henshin I never would have guessed that your female Doctor would have looked like a gorgeous, dynamic, kick ass Asian babe, dressed in dark, snappy, fabulous clothes.



Not having a go btw, I think it's wonderful to have a type like that in your work. Gives it a really distinctive style. We all know my female Doctor would be hugely tall (and could beat yours up because she'd have 3 feet on her LOL), a crazy character actress known for playing psycho show stealing villains, unbelievably hammy and OTT, middle aged, a nose that takes up most of her face, and jet black hair too LOL.

"Tough" - Russell Trans Davies

Meanwhile I'm sorry whilst I LOVE the look for this female Doctor. (What actress is it based on?) I'm just against the idea of a female Doctor in general.

Elodie Yung. 

Whilst DW "fans" on reddit and twatter would say it's because I hate women heroes (an astute observation for me of all people.) I actually think it is more the case of it just doesn't mesh with what came before. In the original series all of the Doctors were meant to be the same people under their new face. The differences in personality where only to do with the outer persona, and also from the Doctor naturally changing as a character. They all were clearly meant to have the same consciousness and mind. (This isn't even just my fanboy analysis. Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy all said as such, as did Terrance Dicks, Terry Nation, Philip Hinchcliff, Bob Holmes and JNT too.)

While I mostly agree with this, I have mostly read that JNT did, somewhere in the early 80s, entertain the idea of a female Doctor? 

[rushy]

I don't think it was JNT that entertained it, it was Sydney Newman (and, probably flippantly, Tom Baker). He said they should bring back Patrick Troughton for a season and then transition to a female Doctor.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2023 9:44:56 GMT burrunjor said:

Dec 4, 2023 6:26:29 GMT henshin said:

I've really been thinking about Doctor Who, of late, with how it handled its first female Doctor. 

But, not so much the Doctor herself, but what followed; dialling the the Doctor back to Ten. 

I'm old enough to remember that Tweets and Comments like "David Tennant will return" attracted audible groans, and simple one line explanations as to why this could never happen. 

All of which, could have been avoided. Not the female Doctor, mind you, but the utterly creative bereft steps to try and appeal to the fans again. That's what got us here - lack of imagination. Had they addressed why the Doctor's gender changed, and gave us a likeable character, it could have worked. 

In fact, there's an explanation within the lore that can work! Remember Night of the Doctor, and the serum that Eight took? What if one of the symptoms of said serum, given the desperation of the Time War, was a likely risk of Timelord DNA be destabalised in such a way that rendered future regenerations physically inconsistent. There's literally a line for this in the episode where she goes "you can be male, female, old, young". 

To me, this work of my applying my imagination to A.I looks more authentic as a Doctor than what we got: 







The sell of a likeable female Doctor was always there. 

Maxil's I guess would be a blonde woman in 80s clothes with hair like a bouncy castle, whose dorky and awkward as can be, but feisty particularly when protecting some kids from some gross, squicky 80s. monster brought to life with 80s practical effects LOL

My woman would be so Eighties that the colour of her piss would be in neon.

[henshin]

Dec 4, 2023 22:54:47 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

Dec 4, 2023 9:44:56 GMT burrunjor said:

Maxil's I guess would be a blonde woman in 80s clothes with hair like a bouncy castle, whose dorky and awkward as can be, but feisty particularly when protecting some kids from some gross, squicky 80s. monster brought to life with 80s practical effects LOL

My woman would be so Eighties that the colour of her piss would be in neon.

The regeneration sequence would look like a gay disco, yeah? 

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2023 23:04:31 GMT henshin said:

Dec 4, 2023 22:54:47 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

My woman would be so Eighties that the colour of her piss would be in neon.

The regeneration sequence would look like a gay disco, yeah? 

I'm not quite sure what a gay disco looks like, funnily enough 

 I'll take your word for it,though.

[iank]

Tom and JNT pranked the press. It was a prank because, back then, people were smart enough to know it was a stupid idea. Hell they even were in 1999. Alas IQs have dropped sharply since then...

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2023 0:28:10 GMT iank said:

Tom and JNT pranked the press. It was a prank because, back then, people were smart enough to know it was a stupid idea. Hell they even were in 1999. Alas IQs have dropped sharply since then...

"IQs have dropped sharply since then..."

Know Thay Havent.

[burrunjor]

Dec 4, 2023 22:54:47 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

Dec 4, 2023 9:44:56 GMT burrunjor said:

Maxil's I guess would be a blonde woman in 80s clothes with hair like a bouncy castle, whose dorky and awkward as can be, but feisty particularly when protecting some kids from some gross, squicky 80s. monster brought to life with 80s practical effects LOL

My woman would be so Eighties that the colour of her piss would be in neon.

We need to do a series together set in the 80s about a blonde, Elizabeth Shue type woman fighting monsters that's an homage to 80s horror/fantasy movies at some point. Obviously that won't be for a while though given my back catalogue. Oh also Henshin again when we're both done with our own things, we need to get back to our one that was a love letter to 00s genre shows and things. I'm actually using our lead character from that in another thing set before it. (PS everyone that had an Asian babe too.) 

[henshin]

Dec 5, 2023 22:02:11 GMT burrunjor said:

Dec 4, 2023 22:54:47 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

My woman would be so Eighties that the colour of her piss would be in neon.

We need to do a series together set in the 80s about a blonde, Elizabeth Shue type woman fighting monsters that's an homage to 80s horror/fantasy movies at some point. Obviously that won't be for a while though given my back catalogue. Oh also Henshin again when we're both done with our own things, we need to get back to our one that was a love letter to 00s genre shows and things. I'm actually using our lead character from that in another thing set before it. (PS everyone that had an Asian babe too.) 

The door is always open, Sir. 

I'm editing my book right now.