Post by burrunjor on Dec 3, 2023 12:47:13 GMT
Okay I'm sure lots of you will say that New Who was shit from the beginning LOL and certainly a lot of the problems that eventually devoured it where there from the beginning like disregarding the Doctors character, some misandry like the Doctor/Donna arc, jumping on shallow fads like reality tv etc.
Still due to the strength of the DW formula and iconography like the Daleks, TARDIS, regeneration and Cybermen, many of which new fans were being introduced to for the first time, and nostalgic love for the classic era among original fans, (as well as just a desire to see DW back) the show was able to overcome these problems and be a big mainstream hit for 7 years in the new who era, before turning into a zombie show that had its day arguably 8 years ago, but has been propped up by the BBC for propaganda purposes ever since.
I've decided to do a complete timeline of how this happened. This is probably all old shit you know already for the regulars here, but for anyone passing by, this is a complete timeline of the end of DW and can be used for future reference and serve as a warning to other franchises.
2010-2013: The Seeds are Sown
Matt Smith is cast and manages to combine the best aspects of both the old and new who style Doctors, somewhat bridging the gap between classic fans and new who fans. He is accepted by the general public too, the quality of stories is generally thought to increase from the self indulgence of RTD by most old school fans and the general public, and with a big 50th anniversary coming up, DW has arguably never been healthier since the 1970s. Sadly however trouble is brewing.
The revival catches on in America, just like the original did in the 80s. Unfortunately however in the 80s it was all Star Trek fans who loved DW. You know my problem with Trekkies how I think a lot of them are snobs who have f*cked over other sci fi classics like Lost in Space, but still at least they are genuine in their love for sci fi and the fact that they of all people love DW, says a lot about how well regarded it is. Sadly however the 2010s American fans are hipsters who don't really like sci fi by and large. Not saying they are all like that, but by and large these are people who have jumped onto the sci fi and fantasy genres because they have become trendy with fads like Game of Thrones, and The Big Bang Theory (then at the height of its popularity.) It's an excuse for these hipsters to dress up and go to conventions and get laid and maybe even launch a career in the media, as the resident geek reporter of some channel or some shit like that. People like Will Wheaton, Chris Hardwick are the epitome of these types of "nerds". These people are naturally all in favor of a female Doctor, as they have 0 idea about the character and shows history beyond 2 years prior to when they started watching it, though they'll have done a quick wikipedia scan and think think they know it. Also they think supporting a female Doctor breaks the stereotype of nerds as sad losers who hate women and makes them look edgy and modern (when they have no individual personality traits or political knowledge that could allow them to stand out otherwise.)
Here are two classic examples of this type of fan. I'd bet anything either doesn't watch DW anymore.
On top of that the fans RTD brought to the show as children at this point start to make their opinions more vocal. Having grown up on RTD's vision, they naturally think DW should be about the soap opera of the companions home life and reflect the world around it. (Two things I'd expect from a show about an alien living in a magic box who can go anywhere.) Naturally they are in favor of a female Doctor as at that point they think it reflects the world around it, by being empowering for women in the genre (again being so young many of them don't have as large a knowledge of the history of the genre as others, and think a female Doctor is genuinely groundbreaking as a hero, ironically having 0 idea of the female led shows RTD took everything from like Xena and Buffy, or if they do, thinking they are the exceptions.) I don't dislike these fans like the phony nerd hipsters meanwhile. They are actually more willing to listen to you and are genuine in what they think, and to be fair nothing wrong in what they think, of wanting a more grounded sci fi series, it just doesn't fit DW, or at least a sequel to the original which it is supposed to be at this stage. Again I think back in 2013 anyway Claudia Boleyn was this type of fan and I absolutely adore her and she's always been a great person. Still you shouldn't always listen 100 percent completely to the youngest fans, only because obviously being the youngest, they probably won't know its full history as well. There definitely were things Moffat could have taken on board from this audience like not writing every female villain as his dominatrix MILF fantasy LOL like Irene and River, but not everything. To be fair no section of the audience should be listened to above all the others. Even the die hards. I feel Ghostbusters Afterlife was shit because it was aimed at the die hards and them alone.
Both of these sections of the audience ironically were very niche and small, but they got to Moffat as not only does their backlash get picked up by the papers, but Moffat was more likely to listen to them, as they are made up of young, millennial fans who he thinks are the majority and who they have to keep in with or else they'll face the horror of being seen as old fashioned and not keeeeeewwwwwwlllll like the 90s. Classic example of what Frank Zappa referred to as "I think the kids and their music is where it's at." That said however he tries to ignore the backlash for a while, hoping that it will die down and casts Peter Capaldi as the next Doctor, as that point he actually still thinks of the Doctor as a character and is therefore wanting to cast who is the best for that character.
However this provokes an unprecedented backlash against Moffat from the hipster and RTD era fans and even within the BBC Charlotte Moore is furious at no female Doctor, which leads to Moffat having to make up for it in 2014.
2014-2016: The Rot Begins
Missy is cast, sending a clear signal who the show wants as its primary viewers. The desecration of not only the Master via Missy, but the Brigadier through Cyber Brig, causes a huge section of classic who fandom to drop off. It turns out that they represent a bigger chunk of the audience than people thought, as there is a catastrophic drop in viewers between Capaldi's first and second season. Of course the Beeb blame this on the fact that Capaldi is an old guy (despite the fact that there was no drop from Matt's last season to Capaldi's first, when you'd expect it.) They plow on with the pandering to the younger, hipster fans, and Moffat crowbarrs in what he thinks are political talking points for young people, with the not all Zygons episode, and Clara insulting men, the generals regenderation, all of which drive more people away, and don't even appeal to the young Claudia Boleyn type fans as they are so clumsily done. The writing of these scenes make Moffat look like an uncool dad holding a skateboard and wearing his cap on backwards to show how he's down with the kids.
Needless to say series 9 is an absolute turkey in terms of viewers. Even when put after Stricly that is pulling in 13 million viewers, Capaldi averages at about 3 million for the overnights, which leads to the show being taken off the air for 2016. (Hilariously this comes after RTD says that the show would never be taken off as it is too successful, and that as a classic era fan he is not used to seeing the show be so successful.) Of course the Beeb not wanting to sabotage their flagship show that is in dire need of a retool, come out with an official excuse that's bullshit like "we just don't want it to clash with the olympics."
Meanwhile all the blame is put on Peter Capaldi by the Beeb for being a stale, pale male. Series 10 is his last roll of the dice as it were, but sadly again they've learned NOTHING in the year away. They think Missy was a hit, as the hipsters who have now become the commandant's of fandom on forums and the magazines and such have shut down all criticism of her and spun ridiculous lies like she channelled Delgado, and again as the problem is Capaldi being old and it not connecting with the youth of today, they shoehorn MORE of this "I like the Playstation" crap into it with right on comments about Trump and make Missy a regular. Also Bill's sexuality is botched as again, being written by an out of touch middle aged guy, it's not treated as a natural part of her character, but has to be brought up every two mins.
Series 10 is a catastrophic failure, with viewers dropping to barely above 2 million for one episode. In fact Capaldi beats McCoy's all time low record twice, which is really saying something as McCoy's record came from an episode opposite Corrie on one side that was pulling in 30 million and an England Qualifier for the World Cup on the other! Capaldi is fired as a result. Not officially, but it's obvious he was. At the start of his third season he mentions that he wants to keep playing the role for years before it's announced he's leaving, and he later lets it slip when they ask him when he is leaving and he says "so I'm told" and then despite it being his dream role, he doesn't show up for the screening of his finale and never wants to reprise the role again. Meanwhile back at the Beeb, now that the stale, pale male is gone, they think they can win round the young crowd by finally bringing in a young woman.
The desecration of the past
Jodie is cast and at first it looks like their gamble may have paid off as viewers are big for her first episode, but ultimately once the novelty wears off viewers begin to drop. It's not to panic levels however. The following gaps come about more through mismanagement however and COVID. Chibnall clearly thinks he has free reign to do whatever he wants, and having bought into the "it's all about change" myth that has been peddled by the hipster, commandants of fandom (though it was originally pioneered by Russell during his first era.) Chibnall goes as far as to make Hartnell no longer the first Doctor. This proves too much for viewers and though they try to shrug it off, when Flux comes around the show is clearly struggling with its viewers. Worse the show now becomes at the forefront of the culture wars, with both sides making it a talking point in their pissing contests, to the point where that's practically all anyone ever talks about when DW is brought up. Fandom is split into little groups of people, who assume the other sides are all either SJW cucks, man hating feminists, or women hating incels and right wing shit lords, due to their opinions of tv shows.
DW fandom becomes a toxic wasteland of everybody's hang ups and cliques which further kills its popularity and reputation. Eventually Jodie beats Capaldi's record of an all time low for the series with barely above 2 million, thanks to all the cancellations, and mismanagement, by 2023 DW has only produced 4 series since 2014 in almost ten years, and the show is finally cancelled.
The beeb have no replacement lined up for Chibbers. Even when people like J Michael Strazinski express interested the Beeb still don't take him up on it. Clearly they think the well has been poisoned and the show could do with a rest.
However just as all seems lost, RTD swoops in. Sadly his reputation convinces the Beeb that he can save the show. Even though there were many factors in his era being successful, the myth of RTD as a genius has built up over the last ten years for many reasons.
The Claudia Boleyn generation who were introduced to the show via him obviously have a soft spot for him.
Even guys like us, have come to view the positives in RTD's era and think "he wasn't as bad as the two who came after him."
At that point he has wisely kept out of a lot of the drama the shows fandom has become embroiled in and has maintained a dignified silence.
He is the establishments darling and they will just hype everything he does.
If there's one guy who can fix it, it's him.
The undead era
Sadly the RTD myth comes crashing down harder, than the Joss Whedon is a nice guy myth LOL. Now unchecked he can do what he always wanted and completely rewrite the entire shows history and character to suit him. From an able bodied Davros, to regeneration being turned into a clumsy and offensive ironically metaphor for trans people, to the Doctor being retroactively rewritten to being gay, all in place of original, and engaging sci fi stories. Also RTD's personality is exposed to more people via social media, unlike in the 00s, and we see him tell his fans to f*ck off, bully them, and blow smoke up his arse about what a great, progressive man he is, whilst working with people like Neil Patrick Harris and dismissing people who want him to talk about the genocide in Palestine.
As a result of all this, even with the much hyped return of Tennant and the best time slot, the show absolutely tanks in viewers and becomes a laughing stock. Much like Keaton in the Flash, nostalgia isn't enough to save this turkey, with 5 million for the opening and a paltry 4.88 million for the next, before Ncuti even has a chance. Even a repeat of the Daleks is an absolute turkey both in terms of viewers and critical reception too, and all of these things represent the 60th being botched.
Overall DW is basically dead at this point, but the question is when the BBC will just decide to finally let it go? How long can the undead Who carry on for, before Peter Cushing puts a stake through its heart?
Still due to the strength of the DW formula and iconography like the Daleks, TARDIS, regeneration and Cybermen, many of which new fans were being introduced to for the first time, and nostalgic love for the classic era among original fans, (as well as just a desire to see DW back) the show was able to overcome these problems and be a big mainstream hit for 7 years in the new who era, before turning into a zombie show that had its day arguably 8 years ago, but has been propped up by the BBC for propaganda purposes ever since.
I've decided to do a complete timeline of how this happened. This is probably all old shit you know already for the regulars here, but for anyone passing by, this is a complete timeline of the end of DW and can be used for future reference and serve as a warning to other franchises.
2010-2013: The Seeds are Sown
Matt Smith is cast and manages to combine the best aspects of both the old and new who style Doctors, somewhat bridging the gap between classic fans and new who fans. He is accepted by the general public too, the quality of stories is generally thought to increase from the self indulgence of RTD by most old school fans and the general public, and with a big 50th anniversary coming up, DW has arguably never been healthier since the 1970s. Sadly however trouble is brewing.
The revival catches on in America, just like the original did in the 80s. Unfortunately however in the 80s it was all Star Trek fans who loved DW. You know my problem with Trekkies how I think a lot of them are snobs who have f*cked over other sci fi classics like Lost in Space, but still at least they are genuine in their love for sci fi and the fact that they of all people love DW, says a lot about how well regarded it is. Sadly however the 2010s American fans are hipsters who don't really like sci fi by and large. Not saying they are all like that, but by and large these are people who have jumped onto the sci fi and fantasy genres because they have become trendy with fads like Game of Thrones, and The Big Bang Theory (then at the height of its popularity.) It's an excuse for these hipsters to dress up and go to conventions and get laid and maybe even launch a career in the media, as the resident geek reporter of some channel or some shit like that. People like Will Wheaton, Chris Hardwick are the epitome of these types of "nerds". These people are naturally all in favor of a female Doctor, as they have 0 idea about the character and shows history beyond 2 years prior to when they started watching it, though they'll have done a quick wikipedia scan and think think they know it. Also they think supporting a female Doctor breaks the stereotype of nerds as sad losers who hate women and makes them look edgy and modern (when they have no individual personality traits or political knowledge that could allow them to stand out otherwise.)
Here are two classic examples of this type of fan. I'd bet anything either doesn't watch DW anymore.
On top of that the fans RTD brought to the show as children at this point start to make their opinions more vocal. Having grown up on RTD's vision, they naturally think DW should be about the soap opera of the companions home life and reflect the world around it. (Two things I'd expect from a show about an alien living in a magic box who can go anywhere.) Naturally they are in favor of a female Doctor as at that point they think it reflects the world around it, by being empowering for women in the genre (again being so young many of them don't have as large a knowledge of the history of the genre as others, and think a female Doctor is genuinely groundbreaking as a hero, ironically having 0 idea of the female led shows RTD took everything from like Xena and Buffy, or if they do, thinking they are the exceptions.) I don't dislike these fans like the phony nerd hipsters meanwhile. They are actually more willing to listen to you and are genuine in what they think, and to be fair nothing wrong in what they think, of wanting a more grounded sci fi series, it just doesn't fit DW, or at least a sequel to the original which it is supposed to be at this stage. Again I think back in 2013 anyway Claudia Boleyn was this type of fan and I absolutely adore her and she's always been a great person. Still you shouldn't always listen 100 percent completely to the youngest fans, only because obviously being the youngest, they probably won't know its full history as well. There definitely were things Moffat could have taken on board from this audience like not writing every female villain as his dominatrix MILF fantasy LOL like Irene and River, but not everything. To be fair no section of the audience should be listened to above all the others. Even the die hards. I feel Ghostbusters Afterlife was shit because it was aimed at the die hards and them alone.
Both of these sections of the audience ironically were very niche and small, but they got to Moffat as not only does their backlash get picked up by the papers, but Moffat was more likely to listen to them, as they are made up of young, millennial fans who he thinks are the majority and who they have to keep in with or else they'll face the horror of being seen as old fashioned and not keeeeeewwwwwwlllll like the 90s. Classic example of what Frank Zappa referred to as "I think the kids and their music is where it's at." That said however he tries to ignore the backlash for a while, hoping that it will die down and casts Peter Capaldi as the next Doctor, as that point he actually still thinks of the Doctor as a character and is therefore wanting to cast who is the best for that character.
However this provokes an unprecedented backlash against Moffat from the hipster and RTD era fans and even within the BBC Charlotte Moore is furious at no female Doctor, which leads to Moffat having to make up for it in 2014.
2014-2016: The Rot Begins
Missy is cast, sending a clear signal who the show wants as its primary viewers. The desecration of not only the Master via Missy, but the Brigadier through Cyber Brig, causes a huge section of classic who fandom to drop off. It turns out that they represent a bigger chunk of the audience than people thought, as there is a catastrophic drop in viewers between Capaldi's first and second season. Of course the Beeb blame this on the fact that Capaldi is an old guy (despite the fact that there was no drop from Matt's last season to Capaldi's first, when you'd expect it.) They plow on with the pandering to the younger, hipster fans, and Moffat crowbarrs in what he thinks are political talking points for young people, with the not all Zygons episode, and Clara insulting men, the generals regenderation, all of which drive more people away, and don't even appeal to the young Claudia Boleyn type fans as they are so clumsily done. The writing of these scenes make Moffat look like an uncool dad holding a skateboard and wearing his cap on backwards to show how he's down with the kids.
Needless to say series 9 is an absolute turkey in terms of viewers. Even when put after Stricly that is pulling in 13 million viewers, Capaldi averages at about 3 million for the overnights, which leads to the show being taken off the air for 2016. (Hilariously this comes after RTD says that the show would never be taken off as it is too successful, and that as a classic era fan he is not used to seeing the show be so successful.) Of course the Beeb not wanting to sabotage their flagship show that is in dire need of a retool, come out with an official excuse that's bullshit like "we just don't want it to clash with the olympics."
Meanwhile all the blame is put on Peter Capaldi by the Beeb for being a stale, pale male. Series 10 is his last roll of the dice as it were, but sadly again they've learned NOTHING in the year away. They think Missy was a hit, as the hipsters who have now become the commandant's of fandom on forums and the magazines and such have shut down all criticism of her and spun ridiculous lies like she channelled Delgado, and again as the problem is Capaldi being old and it not connecting with the youth of today, they shoehorn MORE of this "I like the Playstation" crap into it with right on comments about Trump and make Missy a regular. Also Bill's sexuality is botched as again, being written by an out of touch middle aged guy, it's not treated as a natural part of her character, but has to be brought up every two mins.
Series 10 is a catastrophic failure, with viewers dropping to barely above 2 million for one episode. In fact Capaldi beats McCoy's all time low record twice, which is really saying something as McCoy's record came from an episode opposite Corrie on one side that was pulling in 30 million and an England Qualifier for the World Cup on the other! Capaldi is fired as a result. Not officially, but it's obvious he was. At the start of his third season he mentions that he wants to keep playing the role for years before it's announced he's leaving, and he later lets it slip when they ask him when he is leaving and he says "so I'm told" and then despite it being his dream role, he doesn't show up for the screening of his finale and never wants to reprise the role again. Meanwhile back at the Beeb, now that the stale, pale male is gone, they think they can win round the young crowd by finally bringing in a young woman.
The desecration of the past
Jodie is cast and at first it looks like their gamble may have paid off as viewers are big for her first episode, but ultimately once the novelty wears off viewers begin to drop. It's not to panic levels however. The following gaps come about more through mismanagement however and COVID. Chibnall clearly thinks he has free reign to do whatever he wants, and having bought into the "it's all about change" myth that has been peddled by the hipster, commandants of fandom (though it was originally pioneered by Russell during his first era.) Chibnall goes as far as to make Hartnell no longer the first Doctor. This proves too much for viewers and though they try to shrug it off, when Flux comes around the show is clearly struggling with its viewers. Worse the show now becomes at the forefront of the culture wars, with both sides making it a talking point in their pissing contests, to the point where that's practically all anyone ever talks about when DW is brought up. Fandom is split into little groups of people, who assume the other sides are all either SJW cucks, man hating feminists, or women hating incels and right wing shit lords, due to their opinions of tv shows.
DW fandom becomes a toxic wasteland of everybody's hang ups and cliques which further kills its popularity and reputation. Eventually Jodie beats Capaldi's record of an all time low for the series with barely above 2 million, thanks to all the cancellations, and mismanagement, by 2023 DW has only produced 4 series since 2014 in almost ten years, and the show is finally cancelled.
The beeb have no replacement lined up for Chibbers. Even when people like J Michael Strazinski express interested the Beeb still don't take him up on it. Clearly they think the well has been poisoned and the show could do with a rest.
However just as all seems lost, RTD swoops in. Sadly his reputation convinces the Beeb that he can save the show. Even though there were many factors in his era being successful, the myth of RTD as a genius has built up over the last ten years for many reasons.
The Claudia Boleyn generation who were introduced to the show via him obviously have a soft spot for him.
Even guys like us, have come to view the positives in RTD's era and think "he wasn't as bad as the two who came after him."
At that point he has wisely kept out of a lot of the drama the shows fandom has become embroiled in and has maintained a dignified silence.
He is the establishments darling and they will just hype everything he does.
If there's one guy who can fix it, it's him.
The undead era
Sadly the RTD myth comes crashing down harder, than the Joss Whedon is a nice guy myth LOL. Now unchecked he can do what he always wanted and completely rewrite the entire shows history and character to suit him. From an able bodied Davros, to regeneration being turned into a clumsy and offensive ironically metaphor for trans people, to the Doctor being retroactively rewritten to being gay, all in place of original, and engaging sci fi stories. Also RTD's personality is exposed to more people via social media, unlike in the 00s, and we see him tell his fans to f*ck off, bully them, and blow smoke up his arse about what a great, progressive man he is, whilst working with people like Neil Patrick Harris and dismissing people who want him to talk about the genocide in Palestine.
As a result of all this, even with the much hyped return of Tennant and the best time slot, the show absolutely tanks in viewers and becomes a laughing stock. Much like Keaton in the Flash, nostalgia isn't enough to save this turkey, with 5 million for the opening and a paltry 4.88 million for the next, before Ncuti even has a chance. Even a repeat of the Daleks is an absolute turkey both in terms of viewers and critical reception too, and all of these things represent the 60th being botched.
Overall DW is basically dead at this point, but the question is when the BBC will just decide to finally let it go? How long can the undead Who carry on for, before Peter Cushing puts a stake through its heart?
