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Post by RobFilth on Mar 4, 2021 17:02:28 GMT
Burrunjor, I realize you have grievances with the Hive and I sympathize with the aspects of those, but I don't really want this spilling into a "Your gang, our gang" type scenario and people running back and forth with a "he said, she said" type bitch.
We've all had good times on the Hive, made some cracking posts there and I don't want to lose sight or focus on that.
My main bone of contention is with some of the positions Cutrone has publically expressed, along with some of his highly questionable previous associates like David Thorstad, founder of NAMBLA. It smacks of when PIE infiltrated the National Council of Civil Liberties, except within academia.
With all respect, that transcends all petty group squabbles or personal internet fights.
I realize some posters are closer than others and in a time of crisis people flock to support whomever they're closest to, but I don't think squabbling about this is going to help, although I do recognize your own personal grievances.
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 4, 2021 17:49:39 GMT
What have I missed? I thought ArcHive went down due to server cost not being paid? No, I'm afraid it was a bit of a row which took place, something nasty transpired within the debate, wires got crossed. Server costs were the reason why it went down the time before. |
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Post by mott1 on Mar 4, 2021 22:23:27 GMT
What have I missed? I thought ArcHive went down due to server cost not being paid? No, I'm afraid it was a bit of a row which took place, something nasty transpired within the debate, wires got crossed. Server costs were the reason why it went down the time before. The Hive has more of a reputation for entertainment than for stability! It's regrettable what happened - initially I thought there was a technical problem with the site. It was only later on the next day it became clear to me there'd been a major squabble. I thought after Twatman's lunacy things couldn't get any more chaotic on there... To be honest I'm surprised my brief comment earlier caused apparent upset as it was completely factual, I felt. All I can really tell from the site is the 'Who Is The Biggest Political Twat' thread is inexplicably missing, which is a pity as it was the most entertaining one on the board. If I'm wrong, what happened? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 23:24:54 GMT
No, I'm afraid it was a bit of a row which took place, something nasty transpired within the debate, wires got crossed. Server costs were the reason why it went down the time before. The Hive has more of a reputation for entertainment than for stability! It's regrettable what happened - initially I thought there was a technical problem with the site. It was only later on the next day it became clear to me there'd been a major squabble. I thought after Twatman's lunacy things couldn't get any more chaotic on there... To be honest I'm surprised my brief comment earlier caused apparent upset as it was completely factual, I felt. All I can really tell from the site is the 'Who Is The Biggest Political Twat' thread is inexplicably missing, which is a pity as it was the most entertaining one on the board. If I'm wrong, what happened? You've sidestepped what I asked you. What do you mean by it coming back in a censored format? If you mean Mike pulling the thread, why not just say so? If you mean something else then I'm curious to know what you mean. But yes, he shouldn't have pulled the thread. Apart from that, the only people who were actually involved in that conversation, were Mike, Rob, and myself. I just thought that considering your friendship with Mike and others elsewhere, that you might've seen fit to speak to him about your concerns. As for the original issue, Rob knows exactly what I think about Platypus, and I've challenged Mike on this on several occasions of late. To his face. Like I stated on the thread, any comments I made towards either Rob or Mike were not personal even though I emphatically disagree with Mike and have made that quite clear to him. What has transpired between Mike and Rob since then is their business, but I'm led to believe they are fully reconciled. Rob, I've read your post, and take on board what you say. Especially about Cutrone. Since we last spoke on it, I've also been looking into this myself, and I am also find it pretty concerning. Thanks for being even handed in your comments here. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 4, 2021 23:39:59 GMT
The Hive has more of a reputation for entertainment than for stability! It's regrettable what happened - initially I thought there was a technical problem with the site. It was only later on the next day it became clear to me there'd been a major squabble. I thought after Twatman's lunacy things couldn't get any more chaotic on there... To be honest I'm surprised my brief comment earlier caused apparent upset as it was completely factual, I felt. All I can really tell from the site is the 'Who Is The Biggest Political Twat' thread is inexplicably missing, which is a pity as it was the most entertaining one on the board. If I'm wrong, what happened? You've sidestepped what I asked you. What do you mean by it coming back in a censored format? If you mean Mike pulling the thread, why not just say so? If you mean something else then I'm curious to know what you mean. But yes, he shouldn't have pulled the thread. Apart from that, the only people who were actually involved in that conversation, were Mike, Rob, and myself. I just thought that considering your friendship with Mike and others elsewhere, that you might've seen fit to speak to him about your concerns. As for the original issue, Rob knows exactly what I think about Platypus, and I've challenged Mike on this on several occasions of late. To his face. Like I stated on the thread, any comments I made towards either Rob or Mike were not personal even though I emphatically disagree with Mike and have made that quite clear to him. What has transpired between Mike and Rob since then is their business, but I'm led to believe they are fully reconciled. Rob, I've read your post, and take on board what you say. Especially about Cutrone. Since we last spoke on it, I've also been looking into this myself, and I am also find it pretty concerning. Thanks for being even handed in your comments here. Bullshit. The whole forum was shut down and it came back in a censored format as in that post was removed. Again if I'd been associated with a cult as disgusting as Platypus you, Seal, and Lady Lusipher, would have been the first to dogpile on me, bitch about me, say I'd killed the Hive, call me a degenerate, mock me repeatedly, slag me off to other users, make out I was a joke, edit my threads and give condescending, concern troll threads like Mike did about me having to go out and meet women. For a whole f*cking year Lady s=gave me grief, calling me an awful person and telling me I drove her off, even though I was nothing but nice to her. Yet here she is being as silent as a ghost about Platypus. Hypocrisy at its finest. f*ck her and the rest of the Hive clique. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 2:27:58 GMT
The reason you didn't see me criticise Mike on here *is* a consequence of the fact we've been close friends for over a decade, but has nothing to do with paranoid nonsense about in-crowds. One of the essential elements of a real friendship is private communication. Mike and I talk nearly every day. He's been a member of Platypus for years and has therefore been well-informed of my position on the organisation for around the same length of time. Additionally, I've barely posted anything substantial on the Hive for years and didn't know about the whole c*ntrone meltdown until after the fact. Even if I had known, ask yourself, why would I even think to publicly retread old ground just to prevent your hurt feelings? You're not thinking rationally. So I'm really not sure what you want here, Burrunjor, an admission that people communicate privately with their friends? What if I rounded on you for not trashing your friend in a thread because 'muh feelings'?
Listen to yourself, you donut! |
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 5, 2021 5:11:00 GMT
I'd just like to state some things at this juncture.
1. Mike is not responsible for Platypus nor Cutrone's previous endorsements. Neither are the majority of students who attend Platypus functions, most of which I would assume are completely unaware of Cutrone's previous dodgy associations or concerning views, and whom just want to swot up on some Marxism and political theory.
Applying blame to Mike is not fair, particularly if he currently understands the gravity of some of what Cutrone has endorsed and how potentially dangerous some of his associates are, whom have also appeared at functions with him on campus at Chicago. Academia is not the place for such people to platform, at least not in THIS country.
This transcends politics and there is a concerning nature of radicalization grooming which surrounds Platypus. That creates victims, not perpetrators.
It is the remit of any campus to educate, not indoctrinate.
2. Burrunjor, I understand you feel a level of hypocrisy at play over the way Mike is being treated at the moment in comparison to your own treatment in the past, and I understand your grievance at the perceived injustice of your own unfair treatment, but I'm assuming Mike was not aware of the full background of this Cutrone creep, particularly given his previous statements on the Hive where Mike has condemned paedophile material and denounced its usage.
All of those unsuspectingly sucked into this Platypus cult without the prior knowledge of Cutrones dangerous "generational sexual emancipation" radicalization bollocks are not perpetrators, but victims. They are being indoctrinated toward a social acceptance of paedophillia with such sub-Freudian bollocks. There's nothing nonces like better than to groom their victims into the mindset that they're being given an instruction on liberation to justify their own predatory sexual self entitlement. It's a revoltingly abusive and exploitative powerplay.
3. I don't feel that us all rounding on each other with accusations or pointing fingers of blame helps this situation, and neither does calling Burrunjor "a Donut" for his feelings on this Seal. He's correct in that were he in Mikes place, the same level of understanding most likely would not be applied to him.
However, none of this addresses the overriding issues here and is an obfuscation, can we possibly try and keep some focus guys?
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 5, 2021 6:24:40 GMT
Rob, I've read your post, and take on board what you say. Especially about Cutrone. Since we last spoke on it, I've also been looking into this myself, and I am also find it pretty concerning. Thanks for being even handed in your comments here. Thanks. Since what transpired during the course of the row on the Hive(which was completely unpremeditated on my part, I honestly had no prior knowledge of ANY of this when first entering the debate with Mike), I have also been researching further into this and some of what I've uncovered has been seriously concerning. Platypus are on campus in two sites where some of my colleagues work, and some of what they've hosted is also of a huge cause of concern, which is why I will be making enquiries about them and possibly even alerting my Head of Centre to my concerns. What good it will do or how far it will go I wouldn't like to speculate, but I do feel that some of this stuff falls under the remit of PREVENT strategy. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 7:07:56 GMT
And it's because of friendship, or what seemed to be friendship, that I was addressing Mott1, as previously stated. That particular aspect not being applicable to anyone else trying to be involved or attempting to forge an equivalence.
However, in view of Rob's latest post, I'll leave it there and stick to Dr Who.
Edit, meant to quote Seal, but whatever. All done as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 5, 2021 9:28:00 GMT
The reason you didn't see me criticise Mike on here *is* a consequence of the fact we've been close friends for over a decade, but has nothing to do with paranoid nonsense about in-crowds. One of the essential elements of a real friendship is private communication. Mike and I talk nearly every day. He's been a member of Platypus for years and has therefore been well-informed of my position on the organisation for around the same length of time. Additionally, I've barely posted anything substantial on the Hive for years and didn't know about the whole c*ntrone meltdown until after the fact. Even if I had known, ask yourself, why would I even think to publicly retread old ground just to prevent your hurt feelings? You're not thinking rationally. So I'm really not sure what you want here, Burrunjor, an admission that people communicate privately with their friends? What if I rounded on you for not trashing your friend in a thread because 'muh feelings'?
Listen to yourself, you donut! Well this is going to be my last post here on this as I don't want to drag Rob's forum down into this. (PS Rob's already been a better moderator than Mike ever was.) Okay to start with I DID call Tanman out when I thought he went too far with Maxil, and as Rob can attest I told Rob to stop on NuHive when I felt he and Tanman's feud was getting too much. Second of all when you come down so hard on another forum member, accusing him of chasing users like Lady away because he's so tedious and sexist and so on, and that member gets made into the village idiot for some like this post shows. www.thehiveforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=110651&sid=5eb283c039b6a4a130ec77bbce8792a7#p110651 Then it comes over as hypocritical and cliquey when you back another one up no matter what, even if you disagree with him. And you do! Half the time you seemingly didn't even agree with Mike, hence why your position on me changed. One minute I was a woman hater, then I was a saddo who worshipped women too much. Similarly on NuHive when Mike and Lady weren't around. You pretty much said all of the same things I did about why DW had gone off the rails, pandering to Claudia Boleyn types etc. Clearly THAT is what you actually thought. Similarly you think Tanman was unfit to be moderator, so much you helped set up a new forum to escape him because he put Rob's threads into a separate section. Now I'm not saying that was right of Tanman to do that, but hey at least those were posts of Rob that were insulting Tanman. Mike meanwhile does it to posts of Maxil's that are harmless and shames him "GO OUT AND MEET SOME WOMEN!" And he similarly tampers with my signature and what I've actually written for no reason at all, and your response is a laughing emoji when I bring it up. PS that thread here. www.thehiveforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4987&sid=094415eceb9e6ddc057e068bfc15e253I think aged rather well don't you? Other posters, I'm not even going to say who, went on about how frustrating it was the way that whenever they had a disagreement with Penny, you and Mike would have to swoop in, no matter what. Say what you will but at least if you get an argument with Tanman or Maxil you don't get me jumping in, or vice versa. That's why I say there is a clique and why I dislike it. It's one thing for some to be close outside the Hive that's fine. It's another to dogpile on one member and then back another up regardless of whether he throws his weight around or does things that the others would normally disagree with. |
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Post by mike on Mar 5, 2021 16:18:10 GMT
It was wrong of me to take the board down, but it wasn't because my 'cult leader' had been insulted, or anything like that.
I'd had just about all I could cope with mentally and had a bit of a meltdown.
I've been in pain every single night for the past year with my chronic condition.
I've been isolated and suicidal. Depressed beyond belief. The worst I've ever been.
I read something Rob had said utterly wrongly and lashed out. I thought he was attacking me.
He wasn't.
We've since reconciled. Rob is a great guy. It doesn't bother me that he doesn't agree with me. I still think he's a legend.
I deleted the thread because I had no desire to be reminded of a big row with someone I actually think a very great deal of.
It might be heavy-handed but I've not got the energy for anything else at the moment. I couldn't be arsed going through and pruning specific things.
If anyone would like to step in and take up the admin role on the Hive and buy the webspace off me, go ahead. I've had enough.
If anyone wants to talk about 'censorship' feel free to message me. I have no desire to hide what happened, but I would rather like to move on from it.
I haven't 'censored' anything else. Burun, I moved some of your threads into a different section when I cleaned the board up a bit back but nothing was deleted. That is normal forum moderation. I added a word filter at one point for a laugh but it really upset you, so I removed it. I even messaged you to apologise. Has that gone out of the window now?
I expressed sincere concern about you on the Hive the other day when you weren't able to get in, and now I find you're here slagging me off. No need, is there?
If anyone would like to ask me about Platypus, go ahead, because you've all got it wrong, stemming from a screenshot taken out of context. But I'm not interested in getting into another row about it.
I do challenge you all to try to find another reference made by Cutrone or Platypus more generally (they're not the same thing) to age-of-consent laws.
If you're going to slander Platypus as a paedo cult, you'd better have the evidence to back it up.
If you have an issue with me talk to me directly.
Cheers.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 5, 2021 16:48:10 GMT
Okay I think other people are going to interject here so rather than be part of a mob going on one person. I'm going to back off for a bit and let others deal with it, but one thing I do want to address that relates to me and only me in Mike's post.
"I haven't 'censored' anything else. Burun, I moved some of your threads into a different section when I cleaned the board up a bit back but nothing was deleted. That is normal forum moderation. I added a word filter at one point for a laugh but it really upset you, so I removed it. I even messaged you to apologise. Has that gone out of the window now?"
Yes this is true, that you did apologise to me I openly admit that to all here. Which is why I didn't pursue our feud back in January and didn't do anything for two months. However when all this flared up again with the entire Hive being shut down and how dodgy Platypus is too. It caused me to interject with my own experiences of my posts being tampered with.
Added to that past annoyances like Lady telling me I'd driven her off the Hive, Ludders calling me a crushing bore all the time, Seal telling me I'd ruined the Hive, the facebook clique where I am a figure of fun (which seal even called the Hive elite back in 2016 see the above link) etc. It all started to piss me off more in hindsight with this in mind, as if I had been associating with at the very least an extremist cult I would have been accused of ruining the Hive.
Hell posting some videos by Paul Joseph Watson back in 2016 was enough for me to be accused of killing an entire online community.
Again however I'll leave it to others to discuss the other matter, but that's my dog in this fight if you will.
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 5, 2021 17:35:04 GMT
Hi Mike good to see you here. I'd like to address some points you raise: I'm not quite sure how Cutrones statement here CAN be taken out of context. It seems quite concise and straightforward to me.  He appraises Spartacist defense of NAMBLA and attibutes that position to a Marxist one which anything outside of is "fake left" and "reactionary" - I'm sorry Mike, but that is contemptible and simply unacceptable. It's the kind of sub-Freudian claptrap PIE used to infiltrate the National Council of Civil Liberties during the 70's and 80's. To put this in context we are talking about seriously dangerous paedophiles and child abusers here, not political revolutionaries or libertarians. This is the Wiki entry on NAMBLA here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_AssociationIt states that, NAMBLA are "a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States. It works to abolish age-of-consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors and campaigns for the release of men who have been jailed for sexual contacts with minors that did not involve what it considers coercion" Many of their members have been indicted on crimes involving minors, including an orthodox rabbi infamous for being subject to a worldwide manhunt, known as "NAMBLA Rabbi" The entry lists NAMBLA as being founded by historian David Thorstad. I looked into David Thorstad and here he is platforming at an event at Chicago Uni on the same day with Chris Cutrone in 2013(4 years after his public appraisal of NAMBLA): freudians.org/events/which-way-forward-for-psychoanalysis/ Thorstad also reviews and annotates the event afterwards, highlighting his dangerous and frankly abhorrent views: mronline.org/2013/05/27/thorstad270513-html/?fbclid=IwAR22qJ62rmM6OzWsv_SbYZqHE1TMtsRZVBLoUUewrmishE4GIR9JYK3CyI8I'm aware that this of course does not make Cutrone necessarily a practicing paedophile but when such platforming and endorsements of characters like Thorstad are advocated with a sneer that anything outside of such unacceptable views is "fake left" and reactionary, that IS radicalization. This article in the NYPost from 2013 details the activities of NAMBLA and how they are infiltrating Academia, it observes "the real outrage on the child-abuse front is occurring in academia — a drive to redefine pedophilia as innocuous “intergenerational intimacy.”" nypost.com/2013/01/16/empowering-pedophiles/?fbclid=IwAR01upLGR4hsPDD9BbUeG1zIFY6PEBR6nzg1HPXXzsZE1CuOHs1LA6okpA0The article raises serious concerns, I'm telling you as a friend, this is some serious messed up shit Mike. I've also come across many concerns raised on left-wing web sites about Platypus and the association and links with NAMBLA. This from 2017:   and also this:  I've also come across many other criticisms and concerns raised upon leftwing news sites about Platypus and Cutrone which for the sake of brevity I won't extensively archive. I decided then to peruse Platypus itself and it's many functions and meetings which have extensively embedded themselves within the network of Academia, within less than 10 minutes I came across this event on my most local regional site where Platypus hold functions: 
Now I'm well aware that a discussion on the artistic output merits of a sex criminal like Polanski's may be acceptable, but the aggrandizement of "The Pope of Marxism" along with Polanski's name when dealing with such topics that the talk is concerned with is hugely problematic and concerning particularly given the themic presentation. I'm aware that the vast majority of Platypus's events and sessions are basically just dusty old Marxist readings and critiques and outside of any concern whatsoever, however I would not be comfortable with the main founder of the organisation platforming at my campus given his past associations, endorsements and the nature of some of material hosted under that organisation. Academia is not the place for platforming paedophiles, their associates or advocates, nor aggrandizement of their material, nor indeed the place to dangerously radicalize audiences that paedophiles are simply an oppressed minority seeking sexual liberation and equality. I'm sorry Mike, but it's f*cking bullshit and completely repellent and unacceptable under any guise. |
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Post by mike on Mar 5, 2021 18:12:29 GMT
Added to that past annoyances like Lady telling me I'd driven her off the Hive, Ludders calling me a crushing bore all the time, Seal telling me I'd ruined the Hive, the facebook clique where I am a figure of fun (which seal even called the Hive elite back in 2016 see the above link) etc. It all started to piss me off more in hindsight with this in mind, as if I had been associating with at the very least an extremist cult I would have been accused of ruining the Hive. Hivers have always been hyperbolic, Burun. You didn't ruin the Hive. Nobody seriously thinks you have. We've had way, way worse than you on there. As to the 'Hive Elite', it's again hyperbole. There is no elite. There's just a collection of old friends who no longer have fun on the forum and so talk on FB too. Seal doesn't talk about you on there. Nor do I. Seal himself said that you're not there to defend yourself. I have no interest in taking the piss out of you. At all. Any sniping and snideness like that bores the shit out of me. I don't have a problem with you, Burun. Seriously. And Platypus isn't an extremist cult. It's just an educational project that teaches about what the Left once was. That's it. We're not a party. We're not a cult. We're not trying to indoctrinate anyone. We don't have any tactics or policies. We're not trying to influence politics or academia. We're just reading a set of texts from the historical Left, discussing them, and confronting the contemporary 'Left' with them. That's it. |
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Post by mike on Mar 5, 2021 18:23:28 GMT
Hi Mike good to see you here. Cheers Rob -- just snipping for the sake of screen space. To explain Chris' point on NAMBLA: He uses the word 'abolition' in the Marxist sense. In the Adorno essay he was discussing, Adorno is insistent that under no circumstances should children be put in danger from an adult, and that current laws are designed to protect children. What Chris is questioning is why we even have to have these laws in the first place, that is, what social pathology creates paedophiles in the first place? His concern is that these laws (i) naturalise paedophilia rather than seeing it as a pathology that can be overcome, thus reifiying sexuality as it currently stands and taking it out of the sphere of critical appraisal; and (ii) that they infantilise us by suggesting that our sexuality will always be dangerous and must be administered. The question to be asked is, how do such laws actively perpetuate this current situation? How do they allow society to avoid actively dealing with the issue of paedophilia? It's not an endorsement of NAMBLA. It's not a call to just remove age-of-consent laws. In capitalism that would result in barbarism. Instead, it is trying to bring to consciousness why we are so scared of our own sexuality; why we think every adult is liable to hurt a child; why paedophilia is even a thing. If you ask me, it's arrested development. In Adorno's analysis, this arrested development is itself a product of capitalism. I would happily kick in the teeth of any paedophile or anyone who hurt a child. I know Chris Cutrone. He's not defending paedophilia. He's not like a member of PIE. I do of course see how you've read it this way but you really have to understand what the Adorno essay is on about. The question is, why do we even have such laws in the first place? Why does sexual violence towards children even happen? How can it be overcome? How do such laws elide the necessity of overcoming it? Their abolition would therefore go hand in hand with the abolition of a world in which such violence is possible. That's the point being made. Re: Polanski and that Netflix show, that podcast is a great discussion on our predilection to hide these things away, when we shouldn't. We should be tackling them head on. We should be actively trying to overcome sexual violence to children. Censorship harms the possibility of doing this, does it not? And the 'Pope of Marxism' thing is just an old moniker for Karl Kautsky and is a different discussion not connected to the one about Polanski. NONE of us think paedophiles are an oppressed minority. NONE of us think paedophilia ought to be normalised. We simply question how the legislated repression of sexual pathologies harms the possibility of dealing with them. |
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