Why do you guys prefer Matt Smith's seasons?

[Deleted]

I've noticed that a decent amount of you seem to hold series 5 in particularly high regard compared to the other seasons of NuWho, and that really puzzles me. It's got all the usual goofiness typical of NuWho and everything. Matt Smith is probably my least favourite new Doctor actually.

[rushy]

Because there's a sincerity and a freshness to it. RTD had settled into his groove by series 3 and many people were tired of his formula after series 4 and the specials stretched out Tennant's regeneration.

Having a new series that felt detached from that period was probably very exciting for many people, and you could tell Moffat had a story he really wanted to get across here.

[burrunjor]

Good question.

Well for me and yes it would seem most classic era fans, Matt Smith wins out for the following reasons.

1/ His characterisation was closer to the classic era Doctor. IE for the most part he was an eccentric alien, who wanted to see the universe and learn about it as a scientist, rather than the last of his kind who only travelled because he had to and wanted a normal life like the Tennant or Eccelston Doctors. Yes the time war was still in the background, but it wasn't as big a deal until the 50th (when it was thankfully undone.) He also played him as more of an old man in a young man's body, capturing the characters age unlike Tennant who just played him as a young man. Lusting after a 20 something and telling an old guy that he is thousands of years older than "I'd have been proud if you were my dad." He also had more of a natural eccentricity with his mannerisms, habits etc all feelingthan Eccelston's (which were painful in terms of how forced they were like in End of the World.) He also pitched his Doctor as being largely asexual, hence his horrified reaction to Amy coming onto him and even little things, like his hair which was long and foppish, his costume which was old fashioned, Victorian, had a frock coat etc all matched the classic Doctor image more than Eccelston's binman or Tennant's London dickhead LOL.

Now that said Smith did suffer from some Moffatisms in terms of making him romantic and far too emo as well, and indeed perhaps Matt's own Jack the lad, womanizer personality creeped in a bit too much eventually as seen with his relationship with Clara in season 7. (Even if Matt did do some things off his own accord like miming an erection with the sonic screwdriver, Moffat should have reigned him in. I mean all of the first 4 Doctors were womanizers, and ladies men, even worse than Matt, but you'd never know it on screen.) Still at least we had a period where he was more of a proper Doctor. in his first year 

Also Matt wasn't sidelined for his companions, until the last year with Clara, who ironically took it to new heights. 

2/ His stories were of a higher quality. Things like Vincent and the Doctor, a beautiful poignant episode that tackles mental health in a nuanced way, the Angels two parter which is a great old base under seige story, the 11th hour, probably the best first Doctor story since the 1970s, the Ice Warrior episode represent some of the best of new who. None of his duds, with the possible exception of Let's Kill Hitler reach the lows of the RTD era. Bad Matt Smith era, including Let's Kill Hitler, is just bad sci fi. Bad RTD era like the Trinny and Suzannah bots, Anne Droid, monsters made of fat, blowjob stones, the Jesus/Tinkerbell/Gollum Doctors flying along on the power of luuuuuuurrrrrrrvvvvveeeee is honestly like a parody of the series. Also the focus was arguably put back on sci fi. Whilst there still was some soap opera, it was at least woven into the plot a bit more, rather than just having the plot come to a grinding halt so we can have Rose and her bf talk about chips. 

3/ There was more of a legit attempt to link it with the classic era. Not just through the Doctors characterisation, but through references and stories, which at that point weren't intrusive like they are now. I'm not someone who squees at the sight of a classic era doctor, but I do want it to be treated like one ongoing story, which means you can reference the original if you need too, and now and again carry on the odd old story arc, whilst not wallowing in the past. Matt seemed to get that balance down reasonably well, unlike Jodie which wallowed in the past and destroyed it, or RTD who basically rebooted it by giving characters like the Master a new origin story and motivation. 

4/ Amy, Rory and even Clara were all brilliant companions. Amy and Rory had great chemistry with Matt, and again weren't so intrusive they undermined the Doctor like Donna and Rose. Both didn't become super gods who blew up 60 trillion Daleks in an instant. Clara meanwhile sadly did repeat the Rose crap of becoming a goddess (I'm sure Maxil would agree she didn't need it LOL.) Still even then I don't know, Matt and Jenna's chemistry seemed a lot more natural than Billie and David's. 

Hell I've often suspected they were having an affair in real life. Obviously I'm not going to say that for sure, as I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me given Matt's reputation LOL. Either way Matt and Jenna as a couple felt like two misfits who found each other, where as the Doctor and Rose felt like a smug, annoying couple. Granted they were meant to be, but even then I think that was a mistake to do that. 

Compare Matt and Jenna hugging when she comes back when she's not meant to in Matt's last one, to Billie and David laughing at just going back in the TARDIS in the Satan one and you can see how one is more natural and the other artificial. 

Now this is not to say that the RTD era was bad. Unlike many other here I actually do like it as a sci fi/adventure/superhero show in its own right. Hell I wouldn't even have minded it if it had been a REMAKE of DW. I didn't need a sequel to the original BTW. I'd have been happy if RTD had just been honest and said "I like the iconography of DW and the concept, but I have 0 interest in carrying on the story" and done that. 

However he kind of wanted to have his cake and eat it too, and tried to make it a sequel to cash in on the original's huge fanbase, but that was written as a remake, and when people like us pointed that out, he eventually came to push the DW is all about change, it has no canon, to justify his changes, which hilariously eventually ate his version alive too, as that way of thinking led to Chinballs taking it to its conclusion, and f*cking up even RTD's story arcs as well the originals. I noticed after the Timeless shit we started to get a lot of RTD fans joining the Hive to complain too LOL, like my good friend, Henshin. It shows you Chinballs united every generation of fandom.  

With Matt it felt like a legit attempt to try and tie both sides of fandom together meanwhile by doing a good show with elements of both New Who and Old Who, and with Capaldi cast we all thought that it would be a sign of a more faithful modern version, that they had wanted to do with Matt, but still had to adhere to some of the RTD formula like romantic Doctors, but well we all know what happened there. In the end thanks to Jodie we were all united in hatred and disappointment.

Still Matt is the only honest attempt at a proper 21st century DW. 

[Deleted]

I know what you mean about Capaldi. Deep Breath was so promising... thanks for the explanation.

[zarius]

Series five was simply the only one Moffat had any idea what to do with, and when Moffat is on point, it's a great ride. My mental health wasn't the best at the time so it was good therapeutic escapism.

Good times don't last, and series six and seven were shit, and Moffat only ever did one other good series in my opinion (series 9)

[iank]

Because Smith actually resembles the Doctor, unlike either of RTD's unrecognisable jokes- the binman and the cockney lothario. Karen Gillan is also the best New Who companion by miles, and the tone is much closer to the original show to me and far less of a mashup between Eastenders and a spoof than the Davies era.
But that's just me.

[iank]

Get out of my sight. Go stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

[rushy]

Jul 12, 2023 21:36:03 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

I don't personally. I prefer the RTD era over the Smith era.

Based. Series 5 is the only good one of the Smith era. 
RTD had three good seasons. 

[iank]

lol No. Not one RTD era seqson stands up. They're all shit.

[rushy]

if Russell's don't stand up, then Moffat's definitely don't. Russell at least attempted to tie his seasons together narratively, and to build on stuff he introduced in previous episodes. Moffat just kinda winged it for most of his era.

[burrunjor]

Jul 12, 2023 22:58:53 GMT Brian MK.II said:

I prefer Moffat on the strength of Series 5 alone but I'd argue his era was more damaging in the long run.

Whilst I'm a long way from being a fan of RTD's era, his original 2005-10 stint could at least be contained to it's own island (which in itself was both frustrating and a relief), whereas the Moffat era just gradually got worse and retroactively f*cked everything up.

Yes this is true. 

The proof of that is Matt Smith himself. After Tennant he was able to pull it back to more of a classic era characterisation. 

Honestly the show as at a cross roads in 2013. 

Public love for DW had reached new heights, Matt had somewhat united the Tennant era fans and the classic era fans and we now had an older, crazy character actor in the role again. 

The Capaldi era could have been a return somewhat to the classic era style. IE Capaldi's Doctor could have been a crazy old scientist, the stories could have been about visiting alien planets, darker and more serious, and scary. The section of Listen in the future, Into the Dalek and the Boneless episode all give a hint at what could have been.

Sadly however due to pressure from the SJWs above like Charlotte Moore, and pressure from the RTD era fans who wanted more domestic crap about the companions lives, a more Tennant Doctor. Moffat went completely the other way, and started to include the gender bending crap, soap opera nonsense about Clara and Danny, all of which culminated in Missy, the true point of no return. 

There was no going back after that. Leaving aside that it had trashed an icon of the series beyond repair, the chances of a female Doctor went from a possibility to a certainty after that. 

(Though it made me laugh that some people like Penny, our former member who thought I was a racist, white supremacist, misogynistic psycho that Missy was to avoid having a female Doctor, by giving the feminists a consolation prize. Yeah that was a smart analysis.) 

[burrunjor]

Jul 13, 2023 9:21:48 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

Jul 12, 2023 21:50:46 GMT rushy said:

Based. Series 5 is the only good one of the Smith era. 
RTD had three good seasons. 

Yeah, Series 6 is utterly awful. Series 7 is made better by having Jenna there, but there aren't many good episodes there either. I do enjoy Series 5, but Series 3 is much better.

Personally I prefer series 6 to series 2. 

6 does have an AWFUL finale, where as Doomsday is good tv in its own right, but 6 has a lot of good stand outs like the girl who waited, the hotel episode etcf and a vastly better TARDIS team, with Matt, Amy and Rory all in their prime. 7 meanwhile I think is better than either 4 or 2. Both have finale's that undermine the Doctor, but at least 7's is shorter and creepier. Meanwhile Matt again is better than Tennant and he and Jenna, though maybe a bit too close, are still less smug and annoying and more genuine than Ten and Donna and Ten and Rose. I'll give you that 3 is better than those two Matt seasons, whilst 5 towers over them all IMO. 

Series 1 is the most overrated of all new who IMO. I mean it's not the worst, but at least the first two Capaldi seasons and all of Jodie's do have a lot of critics where as 1 is close to universally beloved and I still don't get it?

It has some of the stupidest, most dated crap like the Anne Droid and the Trinny and Suzannah bots, a Doctor who is not only arguably a bad fit for the role, but hates the material and is gritting his teeth throughout it, and the show most ashamed of its roots. Honestly it took a while for me to warm to New Who because of series 1. 

[rushy]

The Anne droid and the Trinny/Suzannah bots age a lot better when you're not familiar with UK TV.

But I loved Eccleston exactly because he was so stern and didn't prance around as much. I want more Doctors to take themselves more seriously. Hartnell and Eccleston are my favourites for that.

[Deleted]

I don't even know what that Trinny show is to be honest. Big Brother is coming back though and The Weakest Link is still on air I believe.

[mott1]

It wasn't without flaws, but season 5 had an actor that took a completely new approach to the role of DW and made it work, a mile away from Eccles being unconvincing and Tennant being a mockney leading man, and Moffat has always been a strong 'starter' of a new show, like with Sherlock. Later on both shows saw the showrunner get overcomplicated and revert to RTD-style characterisations, despite strong stories like The Girl Who Waited and The Rebel Flesh on Dr Who.