Obi-Wan Kenobi

[rushy]

I felt this series got off to a great start in the first two parts. There were a few nitpicks - Ewan's accent felt a bit forced, I'm not a fan of the Inquisitors and the plot concerning Leia was silly - but for the most part it was interesting, heartfelt and very well performed by everyone (the standouts being McGregor, Joel Edgerton as Owen, Moses Ingram as Reva and Vivian Blair as the young Leia). 

Part III has made me worried for the show, however. Having Obi-Wan and Vader confront each other so soon is a bad idea in of itself. We know they're going to have a proper climactic duel, so why not save all the pathos for that? But even so, the way it was executed was so embarrassing. 

1) The dialogue is trite. So cliched that I even recognised some reused lines from the 2009 Dorian Gray film. They have absolutely nothing of interest to say to each other. Nothing about Padme, or their feelings of mutual betrayal. Some of it is the same stuff Vader says in A New Hope a la "you should not have come back" and "your powers are weak". It's criminally lazy. 

2) Terrible editing. They keep cutting away from the duel. This is a moment 17 years in the making! As I said, I like young Leia and Reva, but on the hierarchy of importance, this meeting between Vader and Obi-Wan should take absolute precedence over any other storyline if we're going to have it here. 

3) Awful choreography. I fully understand that this is not the main duel, just a prelude. I get that Obi-Wan is at his lowest, and Vader is just toying with him. But it shouldn't look lame, and it does. They're just randomly whacking at each other. 

4) The location. It's a quarry. Disney has gone so cheap it's starting to resemble Classic Who. 

5) Vader letting Obi-Wan go because there's a little bit of fire between the two. I've heard people defend it and say that Vader wants Obi-Wan to try again and try better, but it feels so contrived regardless. And if that's not intentional, then holy shit, is that contrived. 

[Deleted]

I watched the first two parts this evening. Nothing special, but enjoyable enough. Nice to see Ewan back.

[Deleted]

Just watched part three. Very tense in places although I think the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan came too early in the series.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2022 21:03:53 GMT rushy said:

I felt this series got off to a great start in the first two parts. There were a few nitpicks - Ewan's accent felt a bit forced, I'm not a fan of the Inquisitors and the plot concerning Leia was silly - but for the most part it was interesting, heartfelt and very well performed by everyone (the standouts being McGregor, Joel Edgerton as Owen, Moses Ingram as Reva and Vivian Blair as the young Leia). 

Part III has made me worried for the show, however. Having Obi-Wan and Vader confront each other so soon is a bad idea in of itself. We know they're going to have a proper climactic duel, so why not save all the pathos for that? But even so, the way it was executed was so embarrassing. 

1) The dialogue is trite. So cliched that I even recognised some reused lines from the 2009 Dorian Gray film. They have absolutely nothing of interest to say to each other. Nothing about Padme, or their feelings of mutual betrayal. Some of it is the same stuff Vader says in A New Hope a la "you should not have come back" and "your powers are weak". It's criminally lazy. 

2) Terrible editing. They keep cutting away from the duel. This is a moment 17 years in the making! As I said, I like young Leia and Reva, but on the hierarchy of importance, this meeting between Vader and Obi-Wan should take absolute precedence over any other storyline if we're going to have it here. 

3) Awful choreography. I fully understand that this is not the main duel, just a prelude. I get that Obi-Wan is at his lowest, and Vader is just toying with him. But it shouldn't look lame, and it does. They're just randomly whacking at each other. 

4) The location. It's a quarry. Disney has gone so cheap it's starting to resemble Classic Who. 

5) Vader letting Obi-Wan go because there's a little bit of fire between the two. I've heard people defend it and say that Vader wants Obi-Wan to try again and try better, but it feels so contrived regardless. And if that's not intentional, then holy shit, is that contrived. 

A lot of people think the show looks fan made. To be honest, as much as I'm enjoying the show, I do think they have a point because something about it looks amateurish. The scene where Leia is chased by bounty hunters in the forest in episode one looked absolutely terrible.  The show has many flaws, but I did enjoy the third episode mainly for Vader being a ruthless bastard. I also like the references to Padme too. Little Leia isn't as bad as I thought she'd be, but the Inquisitors are all pretty bad actors. I certainly don't think Moses Ingram deserves any kind of abuse for her performance, but she's perhaps the worst actor in it. Her character is also poorly written. I think fans take things too far and insult the actors which they shouldn't. Their problem shouldn't be the fact that she's black but rather because she's a bit rubbish. 

[iank]

It probably isn't. Most of the "racist" stuff is probably from Disney plants to draw away from the fact that fans don't like the character, actress or show. It's why they put so many women and/or minorities in these shows, as it's a good way to draw attention from the fact that you're crap and your writers suck.
You'd think it would just be easier to hire good writers and make better shows, but then I'm not a Hollyweird executive.

[Deleted]

Episode 4 wasn't too bad. To be honest, the show has got me back into Star Wars again. Might do a marathon of the first six films. I don't love the prequels, but after Disney's output (especially the sequel trilogy) it's the next best thing after the original trilogy. The only movie I've liked from them is Rogue One and even then I'm not in a hurry to watch that one again.

[ClockworkOcean]

Disney irreparably damaged my trust in them with The Last Jedi. I was ever so slightly tempted by The Mandalorian, but decided to wait and see if it too would become a casualty of the culture war, a decision swiftly vindicated by the Gina Carano scandal.

Star Wars is as dead to me as Doctor Who or Star Trek. I don't even care about the quality of any new Star Wars media, as it's a question of trust. These days, I'm quite content with the Despecialised Editions of the original trilogy that sit on my hard drive. That the best Star Wars experience available in the world today is an online fan project of dubious legality speaks volumes about how far this franchise has fallen.

[Deleted]

I saw The Phantom Menace at the cinema back in 1999. I remember the anticipation of seeing Samuel L. Jackson in Star Wars. I was convinced he was going to be a bad motherf*cker in it. Little did I know that he'd spend 99% of his scenes sitting down mumbling some incoherent dialouge about prophecies. I was disappointed, but the joke was on me in the end. That's the last time I pay to see a film about the taxation of trade routes. I never saw a Star Wars film in the cinema again.

[rushy]

Jun 8, 2022 21:50:57 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

Disney irreparably damaged my trust in them with The Last Jedi. I was ever so slightly tempted by The Mandalorian, but decided to wait and see if it too would become a casualty of the culture war, a decision swiftly vindicated by the Gina Carano scandal.

Star Wars is as dead to me as Doctor Who or Star Trek. I don't even care about the quality of any new Star Wars media, as it's a question of trust. 

This perspective is just weird to me.

Why would anyone trust a company? You trust artists. They're the ones who give a shit about delivering good content. Companies literally exist to profit off of you. 

And as for Carano, what scandal? That she got fired for embarrassing her company? I would have fired her too. Any right-wing company would have done the same if their employee kept cheering left-wing politics. 

[burrunjor]

Jun 10, 2022 18:53:06 GMT rushy said:

Jun 8, 2022 21:50:57 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

Disney irreparably damaged my trust in them with The Last Jedi. I was ever so slightly tempted by The Mandalorian, but decided to wait and see if it too would become a casualty of the culture war, a decision swiftly vindicated by the Gina Carano scandal.

Star Wars is as dead to me as Doctor Who or Star Trek. I don't even care about the quality of any new Star Wars media, as it's a question of trust. 

This perspective is just weird to me.

Why would anyone trust a company? You trust artists. They're the ones who give a shit about delivering good content. Companies literally exist to profit off of you. 

And as for Carano, what scandal? That she got fired for embarrassing her company? I would have fired her too. Any right-wing company would have done the same if their employee kept cheering left-wing politics. 

If you would have fired Gina Carano for expressing an opinion then you are someone who should never, EVER be given any kind of authority. 

The very idea that Gina would embarrass the good name of Disney makes me laugh. What a company founded by an actual anti semite? A company that bullies grieving fathers because they can't profit off of a child's death are going to look bad because of a mild Republican?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49085597

Honestly reminds me of that bit in Futurama. "Accusing gentle Bender of a misdeed is simply the last straw."

What happened to Gina Carano wasn't just a scandal. It was modern day McCarthyism and should be condemned by everyone regardless of their political allignment as sooner or later you'll find yourself on the list. Just like Graham Linehan who laughed his ass off at Mark Meechin being arrested for a joke and later had his career torpedoed. 

And no actually plenty of right wing and left wing people haven't done what Disney did to Carano. Let me give you some examples. 

Supernatural. It's main cast members, Jensen Ackles and Jared Padelicki are both left wingers. (Particularly Padelicki.) Mark Pelligrino who played Lucifer is an Ayn Rand fan boy (which is far more extreme than anything Gina posted.) Yet not only was he kept on, Mark's role in the series was beefed up for the simple reason of he was excellent in the role. On top of that they also became friends with Mark too. 

John Carpenter and Kurt Russell, Carpenter is your typical Hollywood leftie and he described Russell as being to the right of Gengis Khan. Yet they ended up collaborating with each other many times and have become lifelong friends. 

Classic Who, Terry Nation, a socialist, Douglas Camfield, another ultra right winger, Terrance Dicks, a man who called feminists disgusting, thought the British empire was a great idea, Barry Letts, an old hippie LOL, Malcolm Hulke a life long communist. All of these men worked together regularly and were all very good friends too. 

Now tell me, em, who was more successful? 

Supernatural, that lasted 15 years and despite its ups and downs is sill one of the best genre series of all time. 

Kurt Russell and John Carpenter who produced a string of classic genre movies that have inspired generations of writers, directors and actors. 

Those guys from classic who that created some of the greatest tv icons of the 20th century like the Daleks, the Master, the third and fourth Doctors, the Time Lords etc? 

Or the guys behind the Mandalorian which has already been overshadowed by needless controversy after 1 season?

[rushy]

Jun 10, 2022 19:36:09 GMT burrunjor said:

Jun 10, 2022 18:53:06 GMT rushy said:

This perspective is just weird to me.

Why would anyone trust a company? You trust artists. They're the ones who give a shit about delivering good content. Companies literally exist to profit off of you. 

And as for Carano, what scandal? That she got fired for embarrassing her company? I would have fired her too. Any right-wing company would have done the same if their employee kept cheering left-wing politics. 

If you would have fired Gina Carano for expressing an opinion then you are someone who should never, EVER be given any kind of authority. 

You're forgetting that she was given the oppurtunity to stop, and could have quietly resigned without harming her career in the slightest AND continued to express her feelings to her heart's content. 

You're also forgetting that there is a big difference between expressing feelings to friends and family, and taking a stance in a public forum. What she did was the equivalent of a statement in front of literally tens of thousands of people, a statement that vastly contradicts the imago that Disney wants to project. 

If you are an employee, you are a representative of a company. If they do not feel you are representing them properly, they will try and reason with you. Maybe your views and theirs do not align, in which case you should go and find employment with people who do. The company will understand that, and take the option to simply not renew your contract. It's not a firing, but a mutual decision to part ways due to irreconcilable differences.

Is Disney draconian and/or unethical in their decision to only support one political side? Perhaps. But by ignoring her employers, all Carano proved to me was that she is hardly the model employee either. 

[Deleted]

Gina reminds me more of someone who should be on BangBros rather than a Star Wars series. Mind you, that Nute Gunray wouldn't look out of place on that site either given how limited the male performers are in the looks department.

[burrunjor]

Jun 10, 2022 19:57:32 GMT rushy said:

Jun 10, 2022 19:36:09 GMT burrunjor said:

If you would have fired Gina Carano for expressing an opinion then you are someone who should never, EVER be given any kind of authority. 

You're forgetting that she was given the oppurtunity to stop, and could have quietly resigned without harming her career in the slightest AND continued to express her feelings to her heart's content. 

You're also forgetting that there is a big difference between expressing feelings to friends and family, and taking a stance in a public forum. What she did was the equivalent of a statement in front of literally tens of thousands of people, a statement that vastly contradicts the imago that Disney wants to project. 

If you are an employee, you are a representative of a company. If they do not feel you are representing them properly, they will try and reason with you. Maybe your views and theirs do not align, in which case you should go and find employment with people who do. The company will understand that, and take the option to simply not renew your contract. It's not a firing, but a mutual decision to part ways due to irreconcilable differences.

Is Disney draconian and/or unethical in their decision to only support one political side? Perhaps. But by ignoring her employers, all Carano proved to me was that she is hardly the model employee either. 

You still haven't answered any of my points?

A/ What good image does Disney have left? What being founded and named after an anti semite, psycho anti communist, rip off artist? Bullying grieving fathers?

B/ How did all of these other series and films, like John Carpenter and Kurt Russell's collaborations, True Who, Supernatural, all endure for decades and have tremendous success, despite the people involved having much more extreme political views to one another from being communists to Ayn Rand fans? 

C/ That Disney lied about Gina Carano, stating that her posts denigrated people based on their culture and ethnicities and called her an anti semite? Quite frankly she had a right to f*cking sue them for that. 

D/ That she was blacklisted?

E/ That these people were so vindictive they tried to make it so that she couldn't even appear at conventions?

Also on top of that, this all began because Gina Carano refused to put her support behind BLM and her pronouns in her bio. That is why the SJW twats targeted and bullied her and smeared her as a bigot, and then it escalated from there. So what was she to jump to their every whim? What if she finds it creepy to list your pronouns (it is. It's actually one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Imagine if I wrote "Burrunjor licensed hetero" in my description? Would be no more stupid.) What if she hates BLM?

That's her decision and absolutely no one has a right to force her to go along with their opinions. BTW the same thing happened to the Ducky from Lucifer, Aimee Garcia. She also hated BLM and didn't want to pledge her support to them, whilst the rest of the cast of Lucifer did. The SJWs then similarly started smearing her as a bigot and demanded she be fired. However the makers of Lucifer it seems were adults and had what's the word? A backbone and didn't cave. 

The very idea that anyone here could be on the side of the crooked, evil company, and support modern day McCarthyism is laughable. I think you just like be contrarian in this case. It's the only explanation?

[rushy]

Jun 11, 2022 12:07:43 GMT burrunjor said:

A/ What good image does Disney have left? What being founded and named after an anti semite, psycho anti communist, rip off artist? Bullying grieving fathers?

B/ How did all of these other series and films, like John Carpenter and Kurt Russell's collaborations, True Who, Supernatural, all endure for decades and have tremendous success, despite the people involved having much more extreme political views to one another from being communists to Ayn Rand fans? 

C/ That Disney lied about Gina Carano, stating that her posts denigrated people based on their culture and ethnicities and called her an anti semite? Quite frankly she had a right to f*cking sue them for that. 

D/ That she was blacklisted?

E/ That these people were so vindictive they tried to make it so that she couldn't even appear at conventions?

Also on top of that, this all began because Gina Carano refused to put her support behind BLM and her pronouns in her bio. That is why the SJW twats targeted and bullied her and smeared her as a bigot, and then it escalated from there. So what was she to jump to their every whim? What if she finds it creepy to list your pronouns (it is. It's actually one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Imagine if I wrote "Burrunjor licensed hetero" in my description? Would be no more stupid.) What if she hates BLM?

That's her decision and absolutely no one has a right to force her to go along with their opinions. BTW the same thing happened to the Ducky from Lucifer, Aimee Garcia. She also hated BLM and didn't want to pledge her support to them, whilst the rest of the cast of Lucifer did. The SJWs then similarly started smearing her as a bigot and demanded she be fired. However the makers of Lucifer it seems were adults and had what's the word? A backbone and didn't cave. 

The very idea that anyone here could be on the side of the crooked, evil company, and support modern day McCarthyism is laughable. I think you just like be contrarian in this case. It's the only explanation?

A - Walt Disney has been dead for 56 years. I don't know what grieving fathers you're talking about.

B - I already answered that. Disney's success as a company is not relevant to their right to let go of an employee for not agreeing to represent them in the way they choose to. Every company has a different imago. Some are open, some specifically want to appeal to certain people to the exclusion of others. I'm not here to say that Disney is right or wrong to appeal to certain people only. That's their decision, and they live with the consequences. Much like how kids companies don't like employees swearing online, Disney doesn't like employees saying right-wing stuff online. Maybe that's wrong. But that's not the point here. The point is that Carano made a decision to directly go against her company's policy. She was told "we don't like that here". She should've gotten the message, left, and then done and said whatever she wanted. But she stuck around to earn the money they gave her and still misrepresented them. That's grounds for firing.

C - Yes, I agree with that. She has the right to sue them for that. That doesn't make her a heroine.

D - Blacklisted implies that she doesn't get any work. That's factually wrong. She is still employed and still makes content. She is only avoided by companies who either also have a left-wing, non-inclusive to all imago, or companies who just don't want to risk dealing with someone who can't take a hint.

E - Lmfao. I bet she got a good laugh out of that one.

[rushy]

Jun 11, 2022 12:07:43 GMT burrunjor said:

I think you just like be contrarian in this case. It's the only explanation?

I find this idea of certain celebrities being underdogs or Robin Hoods against the big bad corporate to be laughable. It's all petty, ego-serving nonsense between people who've gotten too rich to be sensible.