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Post by mott1 on Sept 25, 2021 11:54:46 GMT
For me it's the believable societies, particularly in Robert Holmes' stories (but not exclusively, Chris Boucher and others of the era were dab hands too). This is down to the more 'stagey', drier style of performance from the supporting cast but also in discussions earlier in the episodes, which Nu Who abandoned partly thru' shorter runtimes and partly thru' talking down to its audience.
In The Ribos Operation, for example, the whole hierarchy and history is spelt out thru' clever dialogue, without the need for excessive FX and bombast. It also establishes just how the Graff Vynda-K became powerful and how the likes of Garron thought they could exploit it - the whys and wherefores are shown, not told.
Discuss...
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Post by burrunjor on Sept 25, 2021 12:38:45 GMT
Can't possibly limit it to one, so I'll just list the following.
1/ Good world building. As you say Bob Holmes and other writers like Terry Nation made each planet and society you visited feel fully fleshed out. Skaro in the first Dalek story, we get glimpses of its ecosystem, the culture and history of both races, in Carnival of Monsters similarly we see all the dodgy politics and problems the aliens society has (some of which the Doctor isn't even aware of.) Frontier in Space similarly, we see how the earth society in the future has many problems and political infighting that has nothing to do with the Daleks, or the Master like the corruption on the Moon base.
2/ A focus on adventure, derring do and creating exciting monsters.
3/ A show that largely existed in its own world. As a 90s baby I could enjoy Pertwee stories from the 70s because they weren't rooted in 70s culture that I knew nothing about. Hell even things from the 70s that lasted like certain bands and films. If there were any references to topical events they were wrapped up in a clever metaphor that could still be enjoyed without knowing what it meant.
4/ Female companions who were interested in science, wanted to explore the universe, had a platonic relationship with the Doctor and weren't just there to want to get into his or now her pants. No stupid, infantile shipping crap taking over the fandom.
5/ The Master being a formidable, hateful character that you really wanted to see the Doctor bring down, but who always slipped through the net, as opposed to his lover who the Doctor makes excuses for which actually mirrors the ideology of the villains in the show.
See for yourself.
LEADER: It's survival, Doctor. Just as these primitives kill lesser species to protect themselves, so I kill them.
DOCTOR: That's hardly an argument.
LEADER: It's not supposed to be an argument. It's a statement!
DOCTOR: She got us home from Mars.
BILL: She's a murderer.
DOCTOR: Enjoying your bacon sandwich?
BILL: Why?
DOCTOR: Because it had a mummy and a daddy. Go tell a pig about your moral high ground.
6/ The Doctor actually having a core identity as a character, IE a set of values, consistent motivation etc and not being someone who can morph into animals.
7/ The Doctor being played by eccentric character actors, the likes of which you wouldn't see as a leading man in anything else.
8/ Characters dying and staying dead and the show not being afraid to be a little bit dark and genuinely frightening at time. No magic pixie fairy dust.
9/ The Doctor being a bit of an under dog of a hero who some people might think is a tit, and who has to think his way out of problems.
10/ Companions from a wide range of time periods and backgrounds, rather than just the smug, hipster, SJW, dickhead area of London.
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Post by Brian MK.II on Sept 25, 2021 12:40:55 GMT
The timelessness of it mainly. I mean, whilst you can see some of the stylistic choices of the series reflecting the times namely the actors and actresses clothes/hair/whatever, the stories themselves have a timelessness that many other series rarely do which makes it easy for future generations to get into. Whereas NuWho with all it's sensationalist fad chasing bollocks dates immediately and in years to come will be seen as a product of it's time.
I mean if I had no knowledge of Who and someone showed me The Ark In Space and The End Of The World back to back, having filled me with vague received wisdom . With the former, you'd realise for all it's budgetary shortcomings, the story is an multi-layered intelligent script ahead of it's time and the writers clearly did their homework as to not patronise it's audience. With the latter, after 10 minutes of watching Piper getting gobbed at, Eccleston gurning to Tainted Love and Britney Spears playing as the apocalypse unfolds and you'd think ''This is a pisstake right?''
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Post by Monster X on Sept 25, 2021 14:50:54 GMT
The Doctor being the Edwardian eccentric/adventurer (in spirit) and dressing accordingly. NuWho ignored this tradition and gave us a Northern binman, a whining, geeky wide-boy, an ageing Scottish Rock-Dad and a giddy, Yorkshire dinner-lady. Only Matt Smith exhibited any of that old school quality.
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Post by burrunjor on Sept 25, 2021 14:59:57 GMT
The Doctor being the Edwardian eccentric/adventurer(in spirit) and dressing accordingly. NuWho ignored this tradition and gave us a Northern binman, a whining, geeky wide-boy, an ageing Scottish Rock-Dad and a giddy, Yorkshire dinner-lady. Only Matt Smith exhibited any of that old school quality. I saw Jodie's Doctor as being more a gormless, thicko Bubble from Ab Fab type who dresses in rainbow flags to show solidarity with her LGBT friends, but who instead comes over as being insulting, condescending and out of touch as David Brent on a diversity day at work or when he is singing in a bad blaccent on one of his reggae songs like Equality Street. |
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Post by RobFilth on Sept 25, 2021 15:38:09 GMT
"What quality do you miss most about Tru Who compared to now?"
Life was precious and for the moment and to be respected and valued, because death was final and had consequences.
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Post by Monster X on Sept 25, 2021 17:39:01 GMT
The Doctor being the Edwardian eccentric/adventurer(in spirit) and dressing accordingly. NuWho ignored this tradition and gave us a Northern binman, a whining, geeky wide-boy, an ageing Scottish Rock-Dad and a giddy, Yorkshire dinner-lady. Only Matt Smith exhibited any of that old school quality. I saw Jodie's Doctor as being more a gormless, thicko Bubble from Ab Fab type who dresses in rainbow flags to show solidarity with her LGBT friends, but who instead comes over as being insulting, condescending and out of touch as David Brent on a diversity day at work or when he is singing in a bad blaccent on one of his reggae songs like Equality Street. Yes, I agree entirely with your description of Saint Jodie, but whether a giddy Yorkshire dinner-lady or a thicko Bubble from Ab Fab, the point is, there's clearly nothing Edwardian/eccentric about her. She's the product of a Nu-Who reimagining, not the traditions of the Classic series. |
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Post by Monster X on Sept 25, 2021 17:46:09 GMT
after 10 minutes of watching Piper getting gobbed at, Eccleston gurning to Tainted Love and Britney Spears playing as the apocalypse unfolds and you'd think ''This is a pisstake right?'' I've yet to read a better summary of that most loathed of episodes. Well done, Sir!  |
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Post by RobFilth on Sept 25, 2021 18:13:22 GMT
"What quality do you miss most about Tru Who compared to now?"
The other qualities I miss are:
25 minute episodes with cliffhanger(probably why I preferred SJA's to the parent NuWho series), 4 episode length stories.
Greater maturity and depth of characterization.
To some degree slower direction too, fast direction is fine during action scenes, but not all the time.
Intelligent storytelling narration.
Not shying back from horror during much of the Classic Era.
The Doctor acting intelligent instead of like a complete moron.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2021 20:27:22 GMT
The fact it was an amazing and imaginative sci-if adventure show that, despite its budget, told amazing stories for people of all ages to enjoy. It’s main character was a truly unique creation who, along side the show he stared on, evolved and changed over time. It also gave itself time to tell these stories.
Nuwho is just a modern consumer product with the Doctor Who name attached. RTD clearly hates the classic, has never watched it recently and if his old planet zog comment is anything to go by, never understood.
Why do we care about the planet zog, it’s people and the monster terrorising it? Because the writer crafted a narrative that made us care Russel. It’s easy to make us care about humans, on earth, living our lives. It takes talent of a whole other kind to make me care about humans and aliens across time and space, but that exactly what Doctor Who did and did it for 26 seasons.
I miss everything because nuwho is almost the complete antithesis of the classic.
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Post by iank on Sept 25, 2021 21:20:55 GMT
It's gone and it ain't coming back, folks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2021 0:27:24 GMT
It's gone and it ain't coming back, folks. Sad but true. |
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Post by Monster X on Sept 26, 2021 8:12:27 GMT
The Doctor being the Edwardian eccentric/adventurer(in spirit) and dressing accordingly. NuWho ignored this tradition and gave us a Northern binman, a whining, geeky wide-boy, an ageing Scottish Rock-Dad and a giddy, Yorkshire dinner-lady. Only Matt Smith exhibited any of that old school quality. I saw Jodie's Doctor as being more a gormless, thicko Bubble from Ab Fab type who dresses in rainbow flags to show solidarity with her LGBT friends, but who instead comes over as being insulting, condescending and out of touch as David Brent on a diversity day at work or when he is singing in a bad blaccent on one of his reggae songs like Equality Street.  |
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Post by burrunjor on Sept 26, 2021 9:10:35 GMT
I saw Jodie's Doctor as being more a gormless, thicko Bubble from Ab Fab type who dresses in rainbow flags to show solidarity with her LGBT friends, but who instead comes over as being insulting, condescending and out of touch as David Brent on a diversity day at work or when he is singing in a bad blaccent on one of his reggae songs like Equality Street. LMAO. God even in a parody drawing, Jodie's outfit stands out as being awful. Also you joke by having her say safe space, but take a look at this dialogue from Rosa. It honestly does look like it was written by a 13 year old SJW who is trying to be edgy. RYAN: I'm sick of this place already.
YASMIN: I know. But to be here just as history's taking place.
RYAN: This ain't history here, Yaz. We're hiding behind bins. I'm having to work so hard to keep my temper, every second here. I could've slapped that guy back there as soon as we arrived. Thank God me Nan taught me how to keep my temper. Never give them the excuse.
YASMIN: Yeah? My dad tells me the same.
RYAN: Yeah, see? It's not like Rosa Parks wipes out racism from the world forever. Otherwise, how come I get stopped way more by the police than my white mates?
YASMIN: Oi, not this police.
RYAN: Tell me you don't get hassle.
YASMIN: Course I do, especially on the job. I get called a Paki when I'm sorting out a domestic, or a terrorist on the way home from the mosque.
RYAN: Yeah, exactly.
YASMIN: But they don't win, those people. I can be a police officer now cos people like Rosa Parks fought those battles for me. For us. And in 53 years, they'll have a black President as leader. Who knows where they'll be 50 years after that? But that's proper change. What?
You can just imagine the wooden way that Yaz and Graham would have delivered that too. It's about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face. Incidentally my new niece is named Rosa, so when I say Rosa is utter crap I have to be careful LOL |
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Post by burrunjor on Sept 26, 2021 9:43:08 GMT
It's gone and it ain't coming back, folks. Sad but true. Yes even I have given up on it coming back now. Our last hope was the Chinballs era failing and that convincing people that this approach won't work. Sadly with RTD back he will be more likely to win the public back, simply due to the spin machine which will just cement Chinballs shit. I officially give up and I am just going to focus on eccentric female singers and Dinosaurs now LOL. Not saying I'll never watch Classic Who, but for now it's quite painful to think such a great, unique, imaginative show and character was completely destroyed by hacks. The Jimmy Carrs, the panel show c*nts, the shallow BBC c*nts and media whores they won. They not only helped to finish the original, but replaced it with a shallow, bastardisation that is everything they want, IE no sci fi, dreary soap opera, shallow identity politics, bland leading men and women that you'd see in any dreary BBC drama. It's a sad day for any kind of unique, alternative forms of entertainment. |
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