Which "good" stories can't you stand?

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2021 21:56:40 GMT Bernard Marx said:

To be honest, I don't see how Caves is ponderous myself, yet people seem to see it that way today. It opens with an interrogation as soon as the guest characters are introduced, with episode 1 concluding with a firing squad accompanied with POV shots from Jek's perspective beforehand, episode 2 caps off with an android getting its head blown off prior to a shootout, episode 3 opens with the Doctor almost receiving an amputation before the episode proceeds with an assassination followed by one of the most intense cliffhangers of all time, and episode 4 is largely composed of a visceral shootout aided by some superbly helmed tracking shots and camerawork. 

To be blunt, I never really got the hype for Earthshock myself. The dialogue is largely uninspired, the direction and pace generally more plodding than people make out (the latter half of episode 2 and the first half of episode 3 fail to engage me as much as the remainder of the story), and I don't see how it's regarded as one of the finest Cybermen stories of all time. I actually prefer Attack of the Cybermen, which prominently gets slated- the guest characters are infinitely witter (Brian Glover is a right laugh), the dialogue more verbose and the emphasis on the macabre stronger.

Logopolis seems more slated these days than it was. I love individual segments of it (the regeneration itself, the funeralesque atmosphere and the cogent throwbacks to the recurring motif of entropy characteristic of season 18), but can only agree that it's largely a lethargic and boring slog. Probably the weakest of that respective season actually, and I include Leisure Hive in that.

Seeds of Death is another. It's not badly made, but there's nothing in it that entices or interests me. It's fairly dull, to be honest. It's nowhere near as good as the classics of that season that it accompanies (Mind Robber, Invasion, War Games), and it's also inferior to the original Ice Warriors story by some way. Like Brian, I'm not big on Macra Terror either, although I do think episode 2 is head and shoulders above the rest of it.

Earthshock is great. I wasn't into it a while back, but I watched it again recently and I really loved it again. Grimwade is my favourite Who director and I love the camerawork in the story. It's pretty much all studio bound except for the outside stuff at the beginning of part one. The rising tension in part three is unbearable at times and I just love the Cybermen crashing out of the silos. The score by Malcolm Clarke (his first since The Sea Devils) is possibly his best work for the series and Bank's performance as the Cyber Leader is, well, excellent (see what I did there?).  Attack is nowhere near the quality of Earthshock in my opinion.

[Bernard Marx]

Aug 31, 2021 11:56:26 GMT @gusgorman83 said:

Aug 30, 2021 21:56:40 GMT Bernard Marx said:

To be honest, I don't see how Caves is ponderous myself, yet people seem to see it that way today. It opens with an interrogation as soon as the guest characters are introduced, with episode 1 concluding with a firing squad accompanied with POV shots from Jek's perspective beforehand, episode 2 caps off with an android getting its head blown off prior to a shootout, episode 3 opens with the Doctor almost receiving an amputation before the episode proceeds with an assassination followed by one of the most intense cliffhangers of all time, and episode 4 is largely composed of a visceral shootout aided by some superbly helmed tracking shots and camerawork. 

To be blunt, I never really got the hype for Earthshock myself. The dialogue is largely uninspired, the direction and pace generally more plodding than people make out (the latter half of episode 2 and the first half of episode 3 fail to engage me as much as the remainder of the story), and I don't see how it's regarded as one of the finest Cybermen stories of all time. I actually prefer Attack of the Cybermen, which prominently gets slated- the guest characters are infinitely witter (Brian Glover is a right laugh), the dialogue more verbose and the emphasis on the macabre stronger.

Logopolis seems more slated these days than it was. I love individual segments of it (the regeneration itself, the funeralesque atmosphere and the cogent throwbacks to the recurring motif of entropy characteristic of season 18), but can only agree that it's largely a lethargic and boring slog. Probably the weakest of that respective season actually, and I include Leisure Hive in that.

Seeds of Death is another. It's not badly made, but there's nothing in it that entices or interests me. It's fairly dull, to be honest. It's nowhere near as good as the classics of that season that it accompanies (Mind Robber, Invasion, War Games), and it's also inferior to the original Ice Warriors story by some way. Like Brian, I'm not big on Macra Terror either, although I do think episode 2 is head and shoulders above the rest of it.

Earthshock is great. I wasn't into it a while back, but I watched it again recently and I really loved it again. Grimwade is my favourite Who director and I love the camerawork in the story. It's pretty much all studio bound except for the outside stuff at the beginning of part one. The rising tension in part three is unbearable at times and I just love the Cybermen crashing out of the silos. The score by Malcolm Clarke (his first since The Sea Devils) is possibly his best work for the series and Bank's performance as the Cyber Leader is, well, excellent (see what I did there?).  Attack is nowhere near the quality of Earthshock in my opinion.

The latter half of episode 3 and all of episode 4 of Earthshock are fantastic for rising tension and action, but there's a segment prior to that (and after the largely excellent first episode) that comes across as mildly laborious (it's the entire segment after the bomb is disarmed and before the Cybermen emerge). I might need to re-watch it again, but it doesn't click with me in the same way that it has with pretty much everyone else. It's a fine story, but I don't quite see it in the same light. 

Can't disagree about the score though. It's fu.cking excellent.