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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 20:56:24 GMT
I wonder what Ian's going to say  The Caves of Androzani. Sorry, I just don't rate it at all. People act like Graeme Harper is the only good director of this era which is tosh really. Grimwade did a much better job on Earthshock than Harper did on Caves. Also, the set design is superior in that story to the rubbish caves that wobble here. I just don't find the script that interesting. It's slow and ponderous and too talky for my standards. Bryant, as pretty as she is, can't act and it doesn't get that exciting until the last part. What I'm trying to say is.... Warriors of the Deep > Caves |
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Post by iank on Aug 30, 2021 21:06:25 GMT
Kinda. Crap,
Morbius. Overrated panto drek.
Pertwee era advocates seem to go a bundle for Axos - I think it's one of the worst of his era. Same for Planet of the Daleks...
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Post by Brian MK.II on Aug 30, 2021 21:21:23 GMT
Dalek Invasion Of Earth- Good story on paper, sadly badly directed, laughably acted in places and lethargic and dreary as hell. Masterplan is better and more enjoyable at 12 episodes and a more bleaker tone.
War Machines- Nonsensical and boring although seeing Hartnell in 60s London is alright.
Macra Terror- Pantomime level acting and stupid plot. This and Seeds are the only two blots on an otherwise nearly flawless era
Colony In Space- Snooze fest
Sea Devils- Unoriginal remake of The Silurians. Doctor and Master dynamic is good but everything else is just an inferior retread.
Logopolis- Interesting first episode but after that degenerates into a dreary nonsensical technobabble fest where Tom is reduced to wallpaper in his own show. He deserved a much better send off
Kinda- Pretentious, clunky and half the time feels like a first draft. Hindle's fokking unintentionally funny though.
Mysterious Planet- Regarded as the least shit of Trial, I find it cheap, pedestrian level scripted and coming right after Revelation, neutered and spineless. Vervoids is more enjoyable.
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Post by iank on Aug 30, 2021 21:32:25 GMT
Oh God, Logopolis. Logoboreis more like.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 21:41:12 GMT
Dalek Invasion Of Earth- Good story on paper, sadly badly directed, laughably acted in places and lethargic and dreary as hell. Masterplan is better and more enjoyable at 12 episodes and a more bleaker tone. War Machines- Nonsensical and boring although seeing Hartnell in 60s London is alright. Macra Terror- Pantomime level acting and stupid plot. This and Seeds are the only two blots on an otherwise nearly flawless era Colony In Space- Snooze fest Sea Devils- Unoriginal remake of The Silurians. Doctor and Master dynamic is good but everything else is just an inferior retread. Morbius- What Ian said. Logopolis- Interesting first episode but after that degenerates into a dreary nonsensical technobabble fest where Tom is reduced to wallpaper in his own show. He deserved a much better send off Kinda- Pretentious, clunky and half the time feels like a first draft. Hindle's fokking unintentionally funny though. Mysterious Planet- Regarded as the least shit of Trial, I find it just to be so cheap, pedestrian level scripted and coming right after Revelation, neutered and spineless. Vervoids is more enjoyable. I appreciate Invasion of Earth a lot more these days. I think it's good despite the clunky direction and questionable additions i.e. the slither. |
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Post by iank on Aug 30, 2021 21:53:55 GMT
I like Macra (the animation at least) but yes, Sea Devils is a snooze fest too. As I've always said, it runs out of plot halfway through part 2...
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 30, 2021 21:56:40 GMT
To be honest, I don't see how Caves is ponderous myself, yet people seem to see it that way today. It opens with an interrogation as soon as the guest characters are introduced, with episode 1 concluding with a firing squad accompanied with POV shots from Jek's perspective beforehand, episode 2 caps off with an android getting its head blown off prior to a shootout, episode 3 opens with the Doctor almost receiving an amputation before the episode proceeds with an assassination followed by one of the most intense cliffhangers of all time, and episode 4 is largely composed of a visceral shootout aided by some superbly helmed tracking shots and camerawork.
To be blunt, I never really got the hype for Earthshock myself. The dialogue is largely uninspired, the direction and pace generally more plodding than people make out (the latter half of episode 2 and the first half of episode 3 fail to engage me as much as the remainder of the story), and I don't see how it's regarded as one of the finest Cybermen stories of all time. I actually prefer Attack of the Cybermen, which prominently gets slated- the guest characters are infinitely witter (Brian Glover is a right laugh), the dialogue more verbose and the emphasis on the macabre stronger.
Logopolis seems more slated these days than it was. I love individual segments of it (the regeneration itself, the funeralesque atmosphere and the cogent throwbacks to the recurring motif of entropy characteristic of season 18), but can only agree that it's largely a lethargic and boring slog. Probably the weakest of that respective season actually, and I include Leisure Hive in that.
Seeds of Death is another. It's not badly made, but there's nothing in it that entices or interests me. It's fairly dull, to be honest. It's nowhere near as good as the classics of that season that it accompanies (Mind Robber, Invasion, War Games), and it's also inferior to the original Ice Warriors story by some way. Like Brian, I'm not big on Macra Terror either, although I do think episode 2 is head and shoulders above the rest of it.
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 30, 2021 22:04:10 GMT
Mysterious Planet- Regarded as the least shit of Trial, I find it just to be so cheap, pedestrian level scripted and coming right after Revelation, neutered and spineless. Vervoids is more enjoyable. I prefer Ultimate Foe to it as well. The conclusion is shite, but it's more involving, surreal and atmospheric as a whole, and nowhere near as mundane. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 30, 2021 22:09:37 GMT
Colony In Space- Snooze fest It would benefit far more as a four parter, I think. There isn't much I really dislike about it beyond the fact that it's frankly overlong and overstays its welcome ironically once the Master makes his appearance. It might be more well-liked if it were edited down somewhat. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 22:13:21 GMT
I loathe Pyramids of Mars. Absolutely laughable stuff. No way should that be in top ten best stories ever. It's dull, lifeless and depressing. Even Tom pisses me off in it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 22:20:17 GMT
Oh, Vengeance on Varos. I can't believe people consider it the pinnacle of his era. Frontios from the previous season is far better. In fact, I would go as far as to say that everything in Season 21 is better than Varos, even The Twin Dilemma. It's certainly more interesting.
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Post by mott1 on Aug 31, 2021 7:17:51 GMT
Varos has slightly odd direction and is let down by Jason Connery's wooden performance, but the other elements balance it out imho.
Planet Of Fire got such good reviews I thought it would be on a par with Caves (which I think is one of Dr Who's finest moments, along with Inferno, War Games etc) but I thought it was just all the worst of Davison's era in one tale - OTT Master, ponderous pacing, convoluted plot etc, and gains little on rewatches. The only plus point was Peri's 'Ursula Andress' moment!
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Post by Monster X on Aug 31, 2021 8:34:52 GMT
I wonder what Ian's going to say The Caves of Androzani. Sorry, I just don't rate it at all. People act like Graeme Harper is the only good director of this era which is tosh really. Grimwade did a much better job on Earthshock than Harper did on Caves. Also, the set design is superior in that story to the rubbish caves that wobble here. I just don't find the script that interesting. It's slow and ponderous and too talky for my standards. Bryant, as pretty as she is, can't act and it doesn't get that exciting until the last part. What I'm trying to say is.... Warriors of the Deep > Caves Naw, I don't agree. Sometimes, just sometimes, a story's reputation is actually deserved . Dark and gritty, Androzani is near perfect - I say 'near' because the Magma beast is a bit crap and Peri's constant whining gets on my nerves. Apart from that, it's a fast moving, action-packed, violent sci fi thriller - a futuristic revenge tragedy - far more adult than Dr Who has any right to be and for the first and last time, Davison's Doctor doesn't bore me or annoy me. TBH, Androzani has that wonderfully bleak and cynical tone you'd associate with '80s comics and graphic novels (in particular, 2000AD) and it's all the better for it. The Caves Of Androzani is a reminder that the show can be grim and nasty sometimes, and acts as a perfect antidote to all the touchy-feely, sugary, mawkishness and sentimentality of NuWho. Bob Holmes' finest hour. 10/10. "Do you think bullets can stop me? Morgus, you stinking offal, LOOK AT ME!!" |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 31, 2021 9:24:42 GMT
Varos has slightly odd direction and is let down by Jason Connery's wooden performance, but the other elements balance it out imho. Planet Of Fire got such good reviews I thought it would be on a par with Caves (which I think is one of Dr Who's finest moments, along with Inferno, War Games etc) but I thought it was just all the worst of Davison's era in one tale - OTT Master, ponderous pacing, convoluted plot etc, and gains little on rewatches. The only plus point was Peri's 'Ursula Andress' moment! War Games, Inferno and Caves are my top three of all time! Looks like our taste coalesces there. Yeah, Planet of Fire is immensely forgettable. I always end up zoning out after episode 1. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 31, 2021 9:39:41 GMT
I wonder what Ian's going to say The Caves of Androzani. Sorry, I just don't rate it at all. People act like Graeme Harper is the only good director of this era which is tosh really. Grimwade did a much better job on Earthshock than Harper did on Caves. Also, the set design is superior in that story to the rubbish caves that wobble here. I just don't find the script that interesting. It's slow and ponderous and too talky for my standards. Bryant, as pretty as she is, can't act and it doesn't get that exciting until the last part. What I'm trying to say is.... Warriors of the Deep > Caves Naw, I don't agree. Sometimes, just sometimes, a story's reputation is actually deserved . Dark and gritty, Androzani is near perfect - I say 'near' because the Magma beast is a bit crap and Peri's constant whining gets on my nerves. Apart from that, it's a fast moving, action-packed, violent sci fi thriller - a futuristic revenge tragedy - far more adult than Dr Who has any right to be and for the first and last time, Davison's Doctor doesn't bore me or annoy me. TBH, Androzani has that wonderfully bleak and cynical tone you'd associate with '80s comics and graphic novels (in particular, 2000AD) and it's all the better for it. The Caves Of Androzani is a reminder that the show can be grim and nasty sometimes, and acts as a perfect antidote to all the touchy-feely, sugary, mawkishness and sentimentality of NuWho. Bob Holmes' finest hour. 10/10. "Do you think bullets can stop me? Morgus, you stinking offal, LOOK AT ME!!"Here, here, couldn't agree more with any of that. The story deserves more recognition as an Aristotelian tragedy in the mould of Shakespeare. The conceit of Sharaz Jek's own tragic predisposition and his subsequent catharsis concerning Morgus (himself a Machiavellian malcontent in Shakespearian fashion- he's practically an Iago type) is the epitome of that. It's such a bloody dark and delicious story and the most apposite way to round off that era. |
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