Your Nuwho Contamination Tolerance Level

[Deleted]

Ok, firstly this dose not apply to True Who. I don't care what NuWho dose, it can never damage the original series. It is, and will always be, one of the greatest pieces of television ever produced and I'll be in my grave befor the day comes  when I'll allow anything to change my mind on that.

No this applies to thing like big finish, books and comics. Whats the point were your draw the line when the two start making contact or, horror of horrors, cross over? There are no wrong answers of course, I just want to see what we all think.

I may have a very strong tolerance. For one I dont mind nuwho monsters crossing over on their own. Generally they are inoffensive and can slide in along side the hordes of generic aliens to be found in the series. The Slitheen  are probably my most hated nuwho monster and I'll even tolerate them to a digree... I think. I'll cross that line when I get there. I can also tolerate mentions of nuwho events provided their not too overt. Case in point, one of the new big finish First Doctor stories, made reference to the Shakespeare Code. It was limited to Shakespeare saying he had met someone called the Doctor befor and Elizabeth I having an outstanding order for the Doctors arrest. These are references to an ok and bad but head cannon wise I can pass it off as none nuwho Future Doctor (Five jumped into my head) causing trouble befor hand. As I see it, if nuwho writers have the cheek to try and rewrite the history of the show, as long as I find a story enjoyable, which the The Hollow Crown was to me, I have zero issues mentally deleting theirs from new stories about classic Doctors. 

I feel at this point that I must reiterate that unlike many fans, I do not consider Big Finish a true part of classic who. NuWho never tried to incorporate it either for that matter. As I see it, it's a little sphere of extra DW material I can enjoy and make part of my own little head cannon timeline for my own personal entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less.  

With that in mind I have out right refused to by anything containing nuwho doctors or characters. The current worsed offender of Riversong, who's content I would not touch with a barge pole even when it was bated with a Great Intelligence/Yeti Story.

That said there is one big finish story that sites right on the line and I'm not shore how I'm going to feel about it till I get there. Thin Time has Davison meet Smiths Doctor in Victorian London, however this Doctor is referred to as "The Other Doctor" and is not actually voiced by Smith. Depending on how the story goes I may be able to just, yet again pass this off as another future doctor unrelated to nuwho. I'll see. This also relates to the story Shadow of the Daleks, which has ties to the time war. Again though, from my research, it is referred to as "a time war" not "the time war" so yet again my sensibilities might should let me allow it though it is cutting it close. How good the actual story is is also an important factor. 

I'm shore I sound silly going to these lengths for a personal "head cannon" timeline but thats how I express my love for the show. To each their own.

[iank]

Honestly these days I don't even indulge in the "other stuff" at all. I'm pretty much just classic series these days, unless I particularly feel like leering at Karen Gillan. I did the books thing in the 90s and tried BF but just couldn't get interested, but these days the expanded universe stuff just doesn't interest me.

[burrunjor]

Well I consider New Who to be totally non canon, so for me anything with New Who is an alternate universe. That said I will not buy anything with Missy, or anything that promotes the stupid SJW agenda of the revival out of principle.

I don't mind some Big Finish stories with new who characters and Doctors however. I quite liked that Tom Baker/David Tennant mash up and I have really been enjoying the UNIT stories.

Really I guess you could say Missy and the cheap political agenda overall is my cut off point. To be honest thought I don't think I'd buy anything with Clara in it either.

[Deleted]

May 23, 2021 1:11:37 GMT iank said:

Honestly these days I don't even indulge in the "other stuff" at all. I'm pretty much just classic series these days, unless I particularly feel like leering at Karen Gillan. I did the books thing in the 90s and tried BF but just couldn't get interested, but these days the expanded universe stuff just doesn't interest me.

Nothing wrong with that iank, if it's dose nothing for you then whats the point. Plus you spare yourself my headaches of making and rearranging a watch/listen order list. 

[Deleted]

May 23, 2021 8:47:15 GMT burrunjor said:

Well I consider New Who to be totally non canon, so for me anything with New Who is an alternate universe. That said I will not buy anything with Missy, or anything that promotes the stupid SJW agenda of the revival out of principle.

I don't mind some Big Finish stories with new who characters and Doctors however. I quite liked that Tom Baker/David Tennant mash up and I have really been enjoying the UNIT stories.

Really I guess you could say Missy and the cheap political agenda overall is my cut off point. To be honest thought I don't think I'd buy anything with Clara in it either.

Pretty much the same for me. I can explain away certain elements or ignore others bit I draw the line at that kind of crap.

Case in point Big Finish's Master mashup series sounded fokking horrific with Missy inflicting here stupidity on all the past Masters. Like Riversong, not only dose she just piss me of, but she's now a Mary Sue character who's their to piss all over the classic series characters. fokk the pair of them.

When it comes to SJW woke nonsense, can't stomach it either. Hell it's not even that I mind more progressive elements being included, an example from The Hollow Crown was that one of Shakespeare's daughters pretended to be male. From what I've looked up Judith is a popular character to write about in fiction about Shakespeare and from what I can tell she dose this so she can act on stage in a time when women were not allowed. Since it contains no misanthropic ideals or propaganda, though it dose clash with real history, what dose it matter as long as the story is good? It's companion story For the Glory of Urth has a strong anti-racisam theme, yet two of the most diabolical characters in the story are women. The story also contains a character who is a gestalt entity and identifies as several genders, but the Doctor merely apologies as he is not familiar with their race rather then going on some preachy diatribe about how gender is a construct of the patriarchy or some nonsense. These are healthy incorporation of modern ideas the likes of which would not be found in the preachy Jodie era.

[burrunjor]

May 23, 2021 9:21:28 GMT @palaeoloxodon said:

May 23, 2021 8:47:15 GMT burrunjor said:

Well I consider New Who to be totally non canon, so for me anything with New Who is an alternate universe. That said I will not buy anything with Missy, or anything that promotes the stupid SJW agenda of the revival out of principle.

I don't mind some Big Finish stories with new who characters and Doctors however. I quite liked that Tom Baker/David Tennant mash up and I have really been enjoying the UNIT stories.

Really I guess you could say Missy and the cheap political agenda overall is my cut off point. To be honest thought I don't think I'd buy anything with Clara in it either.

Pretty much the same for me. I can explain away certain elements or ignore others bit I draw the line at that kind of crap.

Case in point Big Finish's Master mashup series sounded fokking horrific with Missy inflicting here stupidity on all the past Masters. Like Riversong, not only dose she just piss me of, but she's now a Mary Sue character who's their to piss all over the classic series characters. fokk the pair of them.

When it comes to SJW woke nonsense, can't stomach it either. Hell it's not even that I mind more progressive elements being included, an example from The Hollow Crown was that one of Shakespeare's daughters pretended to be male. From what I've looked up Judith is a popular character to write about in fiction about Shakespeare and from what I can tell she dose this so she can act on stage in a time when women were not allowed. Since it contains no misanthropic ideals or propaganda, though it dose clash with real history, what dose it matter as long as the story is good? It's companion story For the Glory of Urth has a strong anti-racisam theme, yet two of the most diabolical characters in the story are women. The story also contains a character who is a gestalt entity and identifies as several genders, but the Doctor merely apologies as he is not familiar with their race rather then going on some preachy diatribe about how gender is a construct of the patriarchy or some nonsense. These are healthy incorporation of modern ideas the likes of which would not be found in the preachy Jodie era.

One retcon that pissed me off was having the burned Master be jealous of River Song. 

That really was just a slap in the face to Robert Holmes who they all ironically seem to worship like the f*cking messiah. 

Really I hate to say it, but I think Bob Holmes worship is part of what destroyed the series. I am not saying Holmes wasn't an amazing writer. He was overall probably the best writer they ever had, but no figure should be made out to be completely perfect the way the fans do with him. 

He was wrong about a lot of things. His snobbery over the Daleks and the Cybermen and rogues galleries in general was pathetic and pretentious. If we had listened to Bob Holmes DW would never have had any recurring enemies which was one of the key reasons for its success throughout its entire history. Everybody loves a good rogues gallery. Tell me Holmes why are Batman, Superman and Spider-Man the most popular superheroes? Hell why is Sherlock Holmes more popular than Miss Marple or any other sleuth? Good villains and enemies always lure mass audiences in! 

His retcon in The Two Doctors was also beyond stupid and threatened to f*ck up the narrative of the show too, and he did write some awful clunkers in his time.

However modern fans make out that he was the messiah and everything he said about the show was right, and often use his mistakes ironically as justification for the shit in new who. (Though even then btw they often take his words and stories out of context. They often use Bob Holmes as proof that continuity shouldn't matter, when he never EVER said that.) 

[Deleted]

May 23, 2021 9:50:13 GMT burrunjor said:

May 23, 2021 9:21:28 GMT @palaeoloxodon said:

Pretty much the same for me. I can explain away certain elements or ignore others bit I draw the line at that kind of crap.

Case in point Big Finish's Master mashup series sounded fokking horrific with Missy inflicting here stupidity on all the past Masters. Like Riversong, not only dose she just piss me of, but she's now a Mary Sue character who's their to piss all over the classic series characters. fokk the pair of them.

When it comes to SJW woke nonsense, can't stomach it either. Hell it's not even that I mind more progressive elements being included, an example from The Hollow Crown was that one of Shakespeare's daughters pretended to be male. From what I've looked up Judith is a popular character to write about in fiction about Shakespeare and from what I can tell she dose this so she can act on stage in a time when women were not allowed. Since it contains no misanthropic ideals or propaganda, though it dose clash with real history, what dose it matter as long as the story is good? It's companion story For the Glory of Urth has a strong anti-racisam theme, yet two of the most diabolical characters in the story are women. The story also contains a character who is a gestalt entity and identifies as several genders, but the Doctor merely apologies as he is not familiar with their race rather then going on some preachy diatribe about how gender is a construct of the patriarchy or some nonsense. These are healthy incorporation of modern ideas the likes of which would not be found in the preachy Jodie era.

One retcon that pissed me off was having the burned Master be jealous of River Song. 

That really was just a slap in the face to Robert Holmes who they all ironically seem to worship like the fokking messiah. 

Really I hate to say it, but I think Bob Holmes worship is part of what destroyed the series. I am not saying Holmes wasn't an amazing writer. He was overall probably the best writer they ever had, but no figure should be made out to be completely perfect the way the fans do with him. 

He was wrong about a lot of things. His snobbery over the Daleks and the Cybermen and rogues galleries in general was pathetic and pretentious. If we had listened to Bob Holmes DW would never have had any recurring enemies which was one of the key reasons for its success throughout its entire history. Everybody loves a good rogues gallery. Tell me Holmes why are Batman, Superman and Spider-Man the most popular superheroes? Hell why is Sherlock Holmes more popular than Miss Marple or any other sleuth? Good villains and enemies always lure mass audiences in! 

His retcon in The Two Doctors was also beyond stupid and threatened to fokk up the narrative of the show too, and he did write some awful clunkers in his time.

However modern fans make out that he was the messiah and everything he said about the show was right, and often use his mistakes ironically as justification for the shit in new who. (Though even then btw they often take his words and stories out of context. They often use Bob Holmes as proof that continuity shouldn't matter, when he never EVER said that.) 

Don't even get me started on that. I'd already f*cked River off after that all the bullshit Mofftwat had her do, that Tardis handbreak line still boils my piss to this day, but to imply that the Classic Master, worse my faviort incarnation of him, was craving the Doctors knob knob turned my hate for her from a 9 to an 11. The Decayed Master is the single most dangerous and unrepentantly evil of all the Masters. While Delgado was to the Master what Hartnell was the the Doctor, the Decayed Master is the soul of the character layed bare. He's everything they try'd to make out Sim's Master to be (instead of the Joker knock of he is) and living proof that Missy is a bastardisation of the character. 

Taking the piss out of him in that was one og the biggest insults to classic who I could think of.

I will agree with Holmes, only in so far as his ideas stop the characters being overused and push for more stand alone and unique enemies along side the Rogues Gallery, but he was totally wrong about getting rid of any of the main alien threats for your exact reasons. The Daleks, the Cybemen and the Master as much part of the Show as the Doctor himself. 

He's worship is likely spawned from the idea the overhyping of 70's who as the golden age of the program and everything else being shit. Were they some of the shows best years, of course they were. In fact they were great, but their are some who promote these times as something just under god-like in statues, ignoring the greatness of both the 60's and 80's. Also, as you say, Holmes really did have his flaws and is not the paragon of perfection he is made out to be. He was human, and even the greatest human can be totally wrong about something, so why not him?