Post by burrunjor on Oct 24, 2024 10:43:35 GMT
Such a shame, DC and Doctor Who are arguably the two best mainstream sci fi franchises of the 20th century.
Both have the best villains, via the Daleks, the Joker, the Cybermen, Lex Luthor etc, both have a wider, more eclectic range of stories and both have the greatest fictional heroes in Batman and the Doctor. They have so much more to work with than Marvel, or Star Wars or Star Trek yet both just keep f*cking up in legendary ways.
Bad casting from Ezra Miller to Ncuti Gatwa, bad stories that demean fan favourites from Arthur being raped to Sutekh being dragged along on a leash, bad marketing from including scenes in your Joker 2 trailer that aren't in the film, to RTD telling fans to f*ck off, both have also f*cked up their past stories with the stupid Crisis on Infinite Earth's stories wiping out past projects like Smallville, the DCAU, and the Timeless Children erasing Hartnell as the first. Even their old beloved actors haven't spared themselves looking like idiots like Colin telling off fans for not liking a female Doctor, or Mark Hamill telling a kid to go f*ck himself on twitter etc.
As a result of these constant failures, both fandoms have gone insane! Crazy cults of personality like the Snyder cult and RTD followers have emerged that eclipse these fans love for DC and DW themselves, elitist cliques have formed that kiss up to the current head honcho like James Gunn and RTD etc.
All of this has put the GP off them to the point where they can't even secure hits with what you think will be slam dunks. Michael Keaton returning as Batman, David Tennant returning as the Doctor, Dalek adventures that always pulled in higher viewers from Hartnell to Tennant, a sequel to a billion dollar film about their most popular villain, the Joker, starring Lady Gaga, an Oscar winning pop star with one of the biggest fandoms on the planet. ALL still turkeys.
Neither have had mainstream hits for a long, long while. Other than Jodie's first few episodes, DW has been a flop show for a decade, and similarly other than a few exceptions like the Snyder cut and The Batman, DC hasn't had a hit film in the 2020s. (Both have also had about 6 reboots and retoolings in the last decade too, all of which have learned nothing from each other.)
Now you might just blame this on the ridiculous culture wars fiasco of the last ten years, which is a contributing factor and has turned most big franchises into mere shells of their former selves. Still that can't explain it completely. No other franchise has been as badly affected as DW and DC in any way, in terms of fans being miserable, and flopping with the GP.
I'm not keen on any of the new Star Trek films or tv series, but they have been successful enough to have decent runs. They unlike Jodie and Ncuti managed to find a legit audience and even now and again win round old fans like Picard season 3. Furthermore their castings aren't quite as comically bad. For instance Zachary Quinto is not my ideal idea of Spock, but I can see how at least physically someone would think he worked unlike Ncuti who is a piss take of a choice for a dusty old mad cap professor. Similarly Michelle Yeoh is an icon. She may not have given her best performance, but getting her is a boon for any show and the chick who played Michael similarly may be polarizing, but she doesn't pull Arnold Rimmer expressions like Jodie did.
Same is true with Marvel, I can't stand most of the MCU crap, but it at least has found an audience and was able to squeeze those member berries with Deadpool and Wolverine and Spider-Man. Even the Star Wars series and films have had projects that old and new fans have liked largely from The Mando to Rogue One.
DW and DC are utterly incompetent across the board these days to the point where they can't even squeeze some member berries from their biggest past hits, or bring them back without f*cking them up, IE Keaton's entire planet has to be destroyed, Tennant has to apologise for having testicles.
Both need a LOOOONG hiatus to make people miss them, rather than planning a new shared universe under the command of an egomaniac which both are doing right now. Of the two of them Gunn obviously has a better chance at success as he does have a lot of genuine talent, where as RTD is burned out. Still even then it is an absolutely Herculian task ahead of him to win back the GP after so many flops.
Question is though which is worse off? Obviously I'm tempted to say DW, because its f*ck ups are more directly linked to the past (though one alternate sequel can fix all of that.) Still at least a lot of DC's f*ck ups aren't connected barring stupid cameos in Crisis that you are easier to ignore. However DC's f*ck ups have been more high profile. They are perhaps more ingrained in the publics mind. With DW most people probably aren't aware it's even still on. Most people have probably forgotten there was even a female Doctor and think that Matt Smith was the last one.
DC however have had a sequel to an Oscar winner bomb spectacularly. It's hard to imagine that not turning people off of future DC films. Maybe both will pull it back but I won't hold my breath.
"What the world needs now is competency, sweet competency. It's the only thing there's just too little of."
Both have the best villains, via the Daleks, the Joker, the Cybermen, Lex Luthor etc, both have a wider, more eclectic range of stories and both have the greatest fictional heroes in Batman and the Doctor. They have so much more to work with than Marvel, or Star Wars or Star Trek yet both just keep f*cking up in legendary ways.
Bad casting from Ezra Miller to Ncuti Gatwa, bad stories that demean fan favourites from Arthur being raped to Sutekh being dragged along on a leash, bad marketing from including scenes in your Joker 2 trailer that aren't in the film, to RTD telling fans to f*ck off, both have also f*cked up their past stories with the stupid Crisis on Infinite Earth's stories wiping out past projects like Smallville, the DCAU, and the Timeless Children erasing Hartnell as the first. Even their old beloved actors haven't spared themselves looking like idiots like Colin telling off fans for not liking a female Doctor, or Mark Hamill telling a kid to go f*ck himself on twitter etc.
As a result of these constant failures, both fandoms have gone insane! Crazy cults of personality like the Snyder cult and RTD followers have emerged that eclipse these fans love for DC and DW themselves, elitist cliques have formed that kiss up to the current head honcho like James Gunn and RTD etc.
All of this has put the GP off them to the point where they can't even secure hits with what you think will be slam dunks. Michael Keaton returning as Batman, David Tennant returning as the Doctor, Dalek adventures that always pulled in higher viewers from Hartnell to Tennant, a sequel to a billion dollar film about their most popular villain, the Joker, starring Lady Gaga, an Oscar winning pop star with one of the biggest fandoms on the planet. ALL still turkeys.
Neither have had mainstream hits for a long, long while. Other than Jodie's first few episodes, DW has been a flop show for a decade, and similarly other than a few exceptions like the Snyder cut and The Batman, DC hasn't had a hit film in the 2020s. (Both have also had about 6 reboots and retoolings in the last decade too, all of which have learned nothing from each other.)
Now you might just blame this on the ridiculous culture wars fiasco of the last ten years, which is a contributing factor and has turned most big franchises into mere shells of their former selves. Still that can't explain it completely. No other franchise has been as badly affected as DW and DC in any way, in terms of fans being miserable, and flopping with the GP.
I'm not keen on any of the new Star Trek films or tv series, but they have been successful enough to have decent runs. They unlike Jodie and Ncuti managed to find a legit audience and even now and again win round old fans like Picard season 3. Furthermore their castings aren't quite as comically bad. For instance Zachary Quinto is not my ideal idea of Spock, but I can see how at least physically someone would think he worked unlike Ncuti who is a piss take of a choice for a dusty old mad cap professor. Similarly Michelle Yeoh is an icon. She may not have given her best performance, but getting her is a boon for any show and the chick who played Michael similarly may be polarizing, but she doesn't pull Arnold Rimmer expressions like Jodie did.
Same is true with Marvel, I can't stand most of the MCU crap, but it at least has found an audience and was able to squeeze those member berries with Deadpool and Wolverine and Spider-Man. Even the Star Wars series and films have had projects that old and new fans have liked largely from The Mando to Rogue One.
DW and DC are utterly incompetent across the board these days to the point where they can't even squeeze some member berries from their biggest past hits, or bring them back without f*cking them up, IE Keaton's entire planet has to be destroyed, Tennant has to apologise for having testicles.
Both need a LOOOONG hiatus to make people miss them, rather than planning a new shared universe under the command of an egomaniac which both are doing right now. Of the two of them Gunn obviously has a better chance at success as he does have a lot of genuine talent, where as RTD is burned out. Still even then it is an absolutely Herculian task ahead of him to win back the GP after so many flops.
Question is though which is worse off? Obviously I'm tempted to say DW, because its f*ck ups are more directly linked to the past (though one alternate sequel can fix all of that.) Still at least a lot of DC's f*ck ups aren't connected barring stupid cameos in Crisis that you are easier to ignore. However DC's f*ck ups have been more high profile. They are perhaps more ingrained in the publics mind. With DW most people probably aren't aware it's even still on. Most people have probably forgotten there was even a female Doctor and think that Matt Smith was the last one.
DC however have had a sequel to an Oscar winner bomb spectacularly. It's hard to imagine that not turning people off of future DC films. Maybe both will pull it back but I won't hold my breath.
"What the world needs now is competency, sweet competency. It's the only thing there's just too little of."
