|
|
Post by burrunjor on Oct 5, 2024 12:20:40 GMT
Had a conversation with Iank and Ludders about this in the Joker 2 thread, but I think it deserves its own title. Remember this is just the ones you've seen it doesn't have to reflect how you think the superhero genre should go or knowledge of the comics or anything like that.
Copy and pasted for me meanwhile.
Best films that are genuine classics
Batman 1989
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
Joker
Superman 79
Superman 2
Blade
Blade 2
Guardians
Guardians 2
Logan
X-Men
X-Men 2
Days of Future Past
First Class
Wonder Woman 2017
Justice League, Snyder Cut
Aquaman
Spider-Man 2002
Spider-Man No Way Home
Venom
Venom 2
Man of Steel
The Amazing Spider-Man
Average enjoyable films that get way more than their fair share of hatred
Batman Forever
Superman 3
Morbius
X-Men 3 (how could you hate watching big Fam torture and kill guys? They're just scared of a real woman LOL.)
X-Men Appocalypse
The Wolverine
Spider-Man 3
The Hulk 2003
Daredevil 2003
Avengers Age of Ultron
Blade Trinity
Average enjoyable films that are hyped to a ridiculous degree by fandom
Spider-Man 2
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Thor
Deadpool movies (I know I despise the creators of these, but since I'm ranking movies by another scumbag Bryan Singer highly I don't have a leg to stand on if I don't include them. Overall they're average. Nothing especially terrible about them, but meta humour isn't really my thing apart from a few exceptions and Ryan Reynolds annoys me, but that's more taste.)
Doctor Strange
Winter Soldier
Batman Begins
The Suicide Squad
All the Avengers movies apart from the second.
Genuine misfires. There's some good stuff in there, but it's let down by something, bad casting, bad plot twists, bad scenes etc.
The Flash (2023)
X-Men Origins Wolverine
Superman Returns
X-Men Dark Phoenix
I'm not sure whether to put Batman vs Superman here or not as I thought it was okay, but I'll concede in this case that objectively a lot of the decisions that went into it, like "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!" and the casting of Eisenberg as an annoying, chirpy Luthor were objectively bad decisions.
Elektra
Guardians 3
Bad across the board, though they might be so bad they are good.
Josstice League 2017
Batman and Robin
Superman 4
Wonder Woman 1984
I haven't seen either Captain Marvel movie, but I'd wager given the pathetic political shit on both sides, at least the first part falls into both average movies that are overhyped and overhated.
|
|
|
|
Post by burrunjor on Oct 5, 2024 12:53:38 GMT
One thing I will say though is that Spider-Man 2 is a movie that teeters on the first and second categories for me.
Personally I think it's soap operaish for me and at times boring. I'm also not as keen on its version of Doc Ock. In the comics and cartoons he was more interesting as he was a Peter Cushing as Victor Frankenstein type mad professor who was so dedicated to his experiments he would be happy to sacrifice anyone for them. I'd have LOVED to have seen that, but here he is just a guy who gets taken over by evil tentacles. As I've said before in a way he's ironically more like Venom than Doc Ock, except the tentacles aren't as interesting as the symbiote. Still that doesn't mean Spidey 2 is objectively bad or even average.
It's kind of like Batman Returns. That's a classic for me, but I can understand how someone who doesn't like the gothic, horror and stylised elements would be put off, and similarly its Penguin is obviously very different to the comic book version. Personally though as I love the horror elements and this is a HUGE childhood favourite and I grew up with Penguins who were inspired by this one like the Batman TAS Penguin, then those things never bothered me.
Still objectively both Batman Returns and Spider-Man 2 are obviously well made films that hold together and set out what they want to do, but again as they're maybe a bit more stylized (again in Spidey's case for soap opera, Batman's for gothic horror) than say The Dark Knight or Superman 78 or the first entries in either Batman or Spider-Man series which have a bit more of a universal appeal; then their position will probably always be a bit more disputed I think.
(In the past I've got pissed at lists not including Batman Returns so I don't mind people here doing the same for Spider-Man 2.)
Compare that however to say Spider-Man 3 which I think objectively is 100 percent an average, enjoyable superhero romp and can only belong in the second category. Spidey 3 has got a lot to offer in terms of visuals, themes, performances and imagination and is enjoyable, but it's plot objectively is a mess.
An alien symbiote happens to land on earth at the same time as a guy happens to fall into a machine that turns him into a monster, at the same time as Harry happens to attack Peter and then Harry happens to get amnesia, oh and Peter finds out the sand guy killed his Uncle etc. Too many coincidences and not enough room for all these stories to breathe, and the tone can go all over the place at times.
Again though my list groups Spidey 2 together with Spidey 3 and the definition of an average flick like Morbius with no highlighting the difference between them, so yeah I admit my list is not perfect.
|
|
|
|
Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2024 13:32:21 GMT
from worst to best:
Superman Returns - I found this movie intensely boring, without any redeeming features. It was so, so dull. Nothing happened. Everything looked ugly. Every performance was forgettable. All the dialogue was forgettable. Such a painful slog.
Superman III - Embarrassing tripe.
Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice - Intensely pretentious, but Affleck makes a good Batman.
Iron Man - I don't have any strong feelings about it. It wasn't interesting enough to get me hooked on the MCU.
Supergirl - It's probably not a great movie, but it's got a goofy charm to it.
Superman IV - Despite the cheapness, it works as a cute callback to the Richard Donner films. I just enjoyed seeing Reeve and Hackman do their thing one last time.
Batman Begins/The Dark Knight - Competently made. I had no issues watching it, but I remember extremely little. It felt like a regular crime drama.
Dr Strange - It was a visually exciting experience, and Benedict Cumberbatch is a good lead.
The Dark Knight Rises - Gets an extra point over the other Nolan films for being a little more outlandish and interesting. I liked the concept of the isolated Gotham. Tom Hardy and Cillian Murphy stand out.
Batman Forever - It's one of those movies where I really have to be in the mood for it. I think Tommy Lee Jones and Val Kilmer let it down a little. Jim Carrey is great, though.
Batman Returns - A little too Tim Burton-y for me, but I admire it and Michelle Pfeiffer is a stunning Catwoman. Plus, it's still got Michael Keaton.
Batman and Robin - Schwarzenegger is such great fun, Uma Thurman is an iconic Poison Ivy. And I prefer Clooney to Val Kilmer. I also really liked the subplot about Alfred dying, I thought that was very well done.
Aquaman - I'm very fond of Jason Momoa, so this was right up my alley.
Superman - I respect this movie immensely, my only issue is that I'm already familiar with Superman's origin story. And most of the film is just retelling that, so there's not a whole lot for me to discover.
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker - I don't care for the scenes set in the present day, but the Batman era stuff is all pure gold. I love how dark and twisted it gets.
and my top 2 are...
Superman II (Donner Cut) and Batman, two of the best comic book films ever made. Standing far above the rest.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Oct 5, 2024 13:53:38 GMT
Superman III - Embarrassing tripe. F*ck youI respect your opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Oct 5, 2024 13:57:50 GMT
Batman (1989) is my favourite followed by Batman Forever, Superman (1978), Joker, Spider-Man (2002) and Batman & Robin. Quite like the Superman sequels as well as Batman Returns. Also don't mind The Batman, Joker 2 and bits of Superman Returns. Oh and The Shadow. How nobody here (that I know of) has seen it is absolutely insane. Tim Curry is a nutcase in it.
Providing they got a good director to do it I'd totally be up for a new Shadow film. They'd have to start from scratch, though. As it stands Batman is the only hero I'd still continue to watch at the cinema.
|
|
|
|
Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2024 14:10:38 GMT
Superman III - Embarrassing tripe. F*ck youI respect your opinion. I just don't find Richard Pryor funny in that film, and the villain feels like a Lex Luthor reskin without that same charisma. My main positive takeaway was Annette O'Toole as Lana Lang. I was so sorry to hear that the Smallville producers neglected to reunite her with Christopher Reeve, apparently she was quite upset about that as she loved working with him. |
|
|
|
Post by iank on Oct 5, 2024 15:17:30 GMT
I've seen The Shadow, but it was a looooong time ago. Don't even remember Curry being in it!
|
|
|
|
Post by Ludders II on Oct 5, 2024 18:52:34 GMT
I'm not really a superhero film fanatic, so ranking them all is very difficult as so many have not stood as worthy of a repeat viewing, so rather than a full on ranking, I can only really give you a rough idea. Quick bit of background: As a kid growing up in the 60s and 70s, I bought my fair share of both DC and Marvel comics and my favourite characters were Batman and Spiderman. But in those days the DC comics artwork was much more vivid, and so Batman probably stood out as my favourite superhero strip. Although my ultimate favourites were the Daleks comic strips, but that's another story. 😉 I did have a few colourful Superman comics with the superior DC artwork, but somehow Superman always seemed a bit old-fashioned somehow, whilst Batman never did. So I grew up feeling that Batman was pretty much the coolest one of the lot, with Spiderman second because I liked the concept and the back story. Although my liking for superheroes didn't really survive into adulthood in the same way that SF and Horror did, via Who, Trek, and Hammer films, etc.. I have enjoyed some of the films. The Reeves Superman films were the first ones I encountered but I found them a bit corny and i wasn't really a fan of Reeves. They were iconic films but I actually preferred what Man of Steel did with the character and the mythos. So much so that Man of Steel sits almost at the top of my list as a standalone story, since the sequel(s), whilst not bad, weren't as satisfying for me. Then came Batman films. I quite like the Burton films, but I think Batman Returns is by far the best one. I remember being disappointed with the first one, and felt that Batman Begins nailed it much more, and felt a lot closer to the tone of the comics that I grew up with. Batman Begins is possibly my favourite superhero movie, along with Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, and the original Spiderman movies. I liked all 3 of those, but the remakes didn't do it for me, and the last couple of Spiderman films probably did a lot to put me off the genre. f*cking awful, frankly. I liked the third Nolan Batman film with Bane in it, but thought the second one with Heath Ledger was a bit overrated, although still good. I liked The Batman too, although it's too long and drawn out, admittedly. The original X-Men trilogy I liked, but I still haven't caught up with the ones after that. I meant to, but there was always other stuff that seemed more important. I did like some of the earlier MCU films, particularly the first couple of Captain America films, and even The Avengers first movie or two, before it all started getting up itself too much. The first Dr Strange one I quite liked, but the sequel was a bit boring, though not as much as that awful Wonder Woman sequel. Ones I didn't like or found dull, or too lightweight, include: Hulk movies (never liked the comic either) Iron Man films, Aquaman, Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Shazam, Venom, Black Panther, Black Widow and others I can't remember. I haven't really bothered with anything since The Batman and Joker. I'm a bit over it all at the moment, so there's still a few I haven't seen, including Morbius. Edit: also the Thor films are shit after the first two.  |
|
|
|
Post by Ludders II on Oct 6, 2024 4:42:44 GMT
Ok it's a lazy Sunday, so I'm doing ranking. It's probably gonna take me an hour going through Marvel/DC Wikipedia lists.  Top 30. (Scores range from 9/10 to 6/10)Batman Begins Man of Steel Spider-Man Spider-Man 2 Wonder Woman Dark Knight Rises Spider-Man 3 X-Men X2 X-Men: The Last Stand The Batman The Dark Knight Captain America: The First Avenger Batman v Superman Justice League Doctor Strange Batman Returns Thor The Avengers The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Superman II Joker Captain America: The Winter Soldier Thor: The Dark World Captain America: Civil War Avengers: Age of Ultron Fantastic Four Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer Avengers: Infinity War The rest. (Scores range from 5/10 to 0/10)
Batman Forever Superman Avengers: Endgame Fantastic Four (2015) Batman (1989) Superman IV Batman & Robin Black Widow X-Men Origins: Wolverine Superman III Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Iron Man The Incredible Hulk Iron Man 2 Iron Man 3 Supergirl Hulk Daredevil Superman Returns Captain Marvel Venom Wonder Woman 1984 Spider-Man: Homecoming Spider-Man: Far From Home Catwoman Aquaman Elektra Thor: Ragnarok Thor: Love and Thunder Ant-Man Guardians of the Galaxy Black Panther Deadpool Shazam! Not seen: (Some just overlooked, some through lack of interest)Swamp Thing Return of Swamp Thing Steel Constantine Watchmen Green Lantern Suicide Squad Birds of Prey The Suicide Squad Batgirl* (unreleased) Black Adam Shazam! Fury of the Gods The Flash Blue Beetle Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom Joker: Folie à Deux Blade Trilogy The Punisher Ghost Rider Punisher: War Zone X-Men: First Class Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance The Wolverine X-Men: Days of Future Past X-Men: Apocalypse Logan Guardians of the Galaxy 2 & 3 Deadpool 2 Ant-Man and the Wasp Dark Phoenix The New Mutants Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings Venom: Let There Be Carnage Eternals Morbius Black Panther: Wakanda Forever Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania The Marvels Madame Web Deadpool & Wolverine I was planning a catch-up at some stage of all the X-Men films, at least up to and including Logan anyway. Also films like Morbius, The Flash and one or two others. It's just getting round to it that's the problem.  |
|
|
|
Post by iank on Oct 6, 2024 7:08:27 GMT
Legendary:
Batman
Batman Returns
Superman, Superman II, Superman III
Very good:
Spiderman, Spiderman 2, X-Men, Guardians, Guardians 3, Deadpool, Deadpool and Wolverine
Alright
X-Men 2 and 3, Spiderman 3, Joker, Guardians 2
Big fat meh
The rest
|
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Oct 7, 2024 14:14:01 GMT
I can't watch anything by Zack Snyder. I really did try with Man of Steel a few months back, but his style and vision don't do anything for me.
|
|
