Post by burrunjor on Sept 27, 2024 19:54:31 GMT
As you may have noticed, the Symbiotes have taken up a lot of my time recently. To be honest right now I'm obsessed with any 80s/90s, slobbering Xenomorph lite monsters LOL. That's one of my favourite subgenres.
Anyway Spider-Man actually has a surprising amount of monsters in his rogues gallery for a street level hero. Daredevil, Green Arrow, etc have none, whilst even Batman and the Flash have a few, but even then for the most they are more minor foes like Clayface, Manbat etc.
With Spidey however mainline rogues, candidates for his archenemy are full on monsters and he even has a race of monsters as his enemies, via the Symbiotes. Spider-Man I'd say is actually a candidate for hero with the best monsters. Obviously he can't quite touch the Doctor or Buffy who always fight monsters, but still he's probably next in line, something which sadly hasn't been acknowledged surprisingly.
I think Spider-Man fans like Buffy and New Who fans, don't tend to put much stock in the monsters. They tend to dismiss them as being silly childish things, and think in all cases the real value of the series is the soap opera element. (Historically a lot of fans have even been snobby dicks to villains like Venom and Carnage for being one note, simply because they are more monstrous than joke villains like Rhino and Electro.)
I agree that being relatable and flawed is an important part of Spideys success, but ultimately I think Spider-Man vs the monsters should be the focus in some movies. I'll admit I never really gelled with the Raimi movies for this reason. He definitely went for the soap opera part and snobbily dismissed the monster villains and as a young Spidey fan who'd grown up with Maximum Carnage and the 2000 Spider-Man game where he stops an alien invasion of Symbiotes and the animated series, I found it such a let down. Of course now I'm older I can appreciate both sides (though I will say whilst the first Raimi movie is a classic, I think 2 is horribly overrated. Sorry but the soap opera crap in that case bores me and MJ is a bitch who leaves her husband on his wedding day. Even Mark Corrigan in Peep Show didn't stoop that low.)
Anyway here are the monsters of Spideys rogues gallery.
The Lizard.
Doctor Curt Connors in an attempt to regrow his severed arm, injects lizard DNA into his body that instead transforms him into a hideous reptilian humanoid who seeks to do the same to others. Here he is.
Venom
An alien symbiote that bonds itself to Spider-Man. In most versions it comes to earth by accident in a meteriote or attached to a space shuttle. The symbiote takes the form of a new black costume and makes Spider-Man stronger, but slowly corrupts him and takes him over, until he gets rid of it, after which it bonds to Eddie Brock, a reporter who hates Spider-Man for ruining his career. They become the monstrous Venom who is determined to make Spider-Man pay. He is a candidate for Spidey's archfoe, though he would later undergo a redemption arc and has been an anti hero for years.
Demogoblin
An underrated foe. Demongoblin was the creation of the second Hobgoblin (a minor costumed crook) who cut a deal with a demon, which led to a monster being created from his darkest side, Demogoblin. However in spite of being created from the dark side of an already evil person, Demogoblin sees himself as a hero who is purging the world of sin, though sadly in his mind everyone is guilty. He nevertheless gets something of a redemption story dying to try and save a child.
Morbius the living vampire.
Doctor Michael Morbius was a nobel winning scientist who was dying of a rare blood disease, but sadly his attempts to cure it led to him becoming a horrible mutant that must feed on blood to survive. Whilst initially introduced as an antagonist, over the years much like Venom he has made the move into being an anti hero, only feeding on those he deems guilty.
PS the Morbius movie was ridiculously underrated. Why the f*ck did everybody hate it? It wasn't a classic, but it was an absolutely fine vampire movie. I mean how did it get a reputation as one of the worst movies ever made? That to me was one of the things that made me turn my back on geek culture. When they'll happily gang up on and bully a completely ordinary vampire flick like that, and praise shit like Missy, that's proof that they are sheep whose judgement can no longer be trusted. Personally I don't think Morbius was any worse than Spider-Man 2 btw. I'd say they were equal. Shoot me, but Spidey 2 was hugely boring in places. Morbius for all its campyness was well paced and its protagonist was more sympathetic than MJ.
Carnage
The most evil of all Spidey's enemies. Part Charles Manson, part Xenomorph, 80s gore monster LOL. Cletus Kasady was a twisted serial killer who slaughtered 15 people before being apprehended. Sadly he was placed in the cell next to Eddie Brock, and when the Venom symbiote returned for Eddie it left behind its offspring (the symbiote race reproduces asexually and have no care for their young.) The new symbiote bonded to Kasady with the two becoming the monstrous Carnage who continued Kasady's killings.
Venom and Spider-Man would be forced to team up to take on Carnage he proved to be such a dangerous foe.
That guy voicing Carnage in this fan recreation of his biggest story Maximum Carnage is f*cking awesome. Sigh just think what Sam Raimi could have accomplished if he'd gotten over his stupid snobbery over 80s and 90s villains. That opening scene in that vid plays straight out of Evil Dead. It was tailor made for him.
Man Wolf
A lesser foe, but still quite an interesting one. John Jameson was originally an astronaut who discovered a strange rock on the moon that he became enchanted by for some reason. After taking it back to earth the rock turned him into a wolf man creature. John Jameson in contrast to his father is a cool guy, making it more of a dilemma when Spider-Man has to try and stop him.
Spider Slayers/Alistair Smythe
Robots created by a mad scientist Spencer Smythe to capture and unmask/kill Spider-Man. Spencers son would later incase himself in metal and became cyborg creature. Alistair was given a bigger role in the animated series where he became a tragic character who was turned against his will into a cyborg.
Spider-Carnage
In the comics he was a nothing character, but in the animated series he is an amazing antagonist decades ahead of his time. Spider-Carnage was an alternate universe version of Peter Parker who was driven near the edge by a series of tragedies, such as the death of Uncle Ben, Aunt May and Mary Jane. He was eventually kidnapped by Miles Warren who created a clone of him, with both Parker and the clone escaping. The clone changed his name to Ben Reilly and became the Scarlet Spider. However a test later revealed that Ben might be the original as both he and Parker escaped at the same time and just assumed Ben was the clone. Following this Parker bonds to the Carnage symbiote which drives him completely insane, and they become Spider-Carnage.
Spider-Carnage subsequently destroys Manhattan with the aid of the Hobgoblin and Green Goblin as his lackeys. He also works with the Kingpin and Smythe to build a weapon which they think will allow them to control people's minds but instead it will fuse an anti matter bomb to a portal created by an interdimensional machine which will create a black hole that will destroy every universe. Spider-Carnage wants to destroy all of reality because of how he believes it has tormented him.
He actually manages to set it off, but Madame Web a being from another universe, travels backwards in time to before the blast and gathers a team of Spider-Men from other universes to stop Spider-Carnage before he can set off the weapon.
It's insane how inspirational Spider-Carnage was, yet virtually nobody knows about him? The Batman Who Laughs arc, the Zoom arc in The Flash, Journey's End with the Reality Bomb and finally the entire Spider-Verse were all directly inspired by Spider-Carnage, yet he never gets mentioned? Again people celebrate Spider-Man 2 with its Mary Jane being sub Mark Corrigan but not this masterpiece? Further proof of what I'm saying that Spidey's monster foes are insanely underrated.
I love the way in contrast to Davros you can actually feel sympathy for him even when he is planning to destroy every universe, like when he goes on about how the universe has tormented him and now it's his turn.
Also this scene where after his plan is foiled Spider-Carnage flees to another universe and tries again only for Spider-Man to bring in a version of Uncle Ben who was never shot to talk him out of it is incredibly poignant. Again Raimi says the Symbiotes never had any humanity, but I felt more empathy for Spider-Carnage here than any of his villains.
As for which one is the best, well hard to say. I'll probably be unoriginal and obvious and say Venom who has the longest and most interesting history, but a part of me wants to vote for Spider-Carnage. Whilst he only has one good story in Spider-Wars it's a hell of a story.
Anyway Spider-Man actually has a surprising amount of monsters in his rogues gallery for a street level hero. Daredevil, Green Arrow, etc have none, whilst even Batman and the Flash have a few, but even then for the most they are more minor foes like Clayface, Manbat etc.
With Spidey however mainline rogues, candidates for his archenemy are full on monsters and he even has a race of monsters as his enemies, via the Symbiotes. Spider-Man I'd say is actually a candidate for hero with the best monsters. Obviously he can't quite touch the Doctor or Buffy who always fight monsters, but still he's probably next in line, something which sadly hasn't been acknowledged surprisingly.
I think Spider-Man fans like Buffy and New Who fans, don't tend to put much stock in the monsters. They tend to dismiss them as being silly childish things, and think in all cases the real value of the series is the soap opera element. (Historically a lot of fans have even been snobby dicks to villains like Venom and Carnage for being one note, simply because they are more monstrous than joke villains like Rhino and Electro.)
I agree that being relatable and flawed is an important part of Spideys success, but ultimately I think Spider-Man vs the monsters should be the focus in some movies. I'll admit I never really gelled with the Raimi movies for this reason. He definitely went for the soap opera part and snobbily dismissed the monster villains and as a young Spidey fan who'd grown up with Maximum Carnage and the 2000 Spider-Man game where he stops an alien invasion of Symbiotes and the animated series, I found it such a let down. Of course now I'm older I can appreciate both sides (though I will say whilst the first Raimi movie is a classic, I think 2 is horribly overrated. Sorry but the soap opera crap in that case bores me and MJ is a bitch who leaves her husband on his wedding day. Even Mark Corrigan in Peep Show didn't stoop that low.)
Anyway here are the monsters of Spideys rogues gallery.
The Lizard.
Doctor Curt Connors in an attempt to regrow his severed arm, injects lizard DNA into his body that instead transforms him into a hideous reptilian humanoid who seeks to do the same to others. Here he is.
Venom
An alien symbiote that bonds itself to Spider-Man. In most versions it comes to earth by accident in a meteriote or attached to a space shuttle. The symbiote takes the form of a new black costume and makes Spider-Man stronger, but slowly corrupts him and takes him over, until he gets rid of it, after which it bonds to Eddie Brock, a reporter who hates Spider-Man for ruining his career. They become the monstrous Venom who is determined to make Spider-Man pay. He is a candidate for Spidey's archfoe, though he would later undergo a redemption arc and has been an anti hero for years.
Demogoblin
An underrated foe. Demongoblin was the creation of the second Hobgoblin (a minor costumed crook) who cut a deal with a demon, which led to a monster being created from his darkest side, Demogoblin. However in spite of being created from the dark side of an already evil person, Demogoblin sees himself as a hero who is purging the world of sin, though sadly in his mind everyone is guilty. He nevertheless gets something of a redemption story dying to try and save a child.
Morbius the living vampire.
Doctor Michael Morbius was a nobel winning scientist who was dying of a rare blood disease, but sadly his attempts to cure it led to him becoming a horrible mutant that must feed on blood to survive. Whilst initially introduced as an antagonist, over the years much like Venom he has made the move into being an anti hero, only feeding on those he deems guilty.
PS the Morbius movie was ridiculously underrated. Why the f*ck did everybody hate it? It wasn't a classic, but it was an absolutely fine vampire movie. I mean how did it get a reputation as one of the worst movies ever made? That to me was one of the things that made me turn my back on geek culture. When they'll happily gang up on and bully a completely ordinary vampire flick like that, and praise shit like Missy, that's proof that they are sheep whose judgement can no longer be trusted. Personally I don't think Morbius was any worse than Spider-Man 2 btw. I'd say they were equal. Shoot me, but Spidey 2 was hugely boring in places. Morbius for all its campyness was well paced and its protagonist was more sympathetic than MJ.
Carnage
The most evil of all Spidey's enemies. Part Charles Manson, part Xenomorph, 80s gore monster LOL. Cletus Kasady was a twisted serial killer who slaughtered 15 people before being apprehended. Sadly he was placed in the cell next to Eddie Brock, and when the Venom symbiote returned for Eddie it left behind its offspring (the symbiote race reproduces asexually and have no care for their young.) The new symbiote bonded to Kasady with the two becoming the monstrous Carnage who continued Kasady's killings.
Venom and Spider-Man would be forced to team up to take on Carnage he proved to be such a dangerous foe.
That guy voicing Carnage in this fan recreation of his biggest story Maximum Carnage is f*cking awesome. Sigh just think what Sam Raimi could have accomplished if he'd gotten over his stupid snobbery over 80s and 90s villains. That opening scene in that vid plays straight out of Evil Dead. It was tailor made for him.
Man Wolf
A lesser foe, but still quite an interesting one. John Jameson was originally an astronaut who discovered a strange rock on the moon that he became enchanted by for some reason. After taking it back to earth the rock turned him into a wolf man creature. John Jameson in contrast to his father is a cool guy, making it more of a dilemma when Spider-Man has to try and stop him.
Spider Slayers/Alistair Smythe
Robots created by a mad scientist Spencer Smythe to capture and unmask/kill Spider-Man. Spencers son would later incase himself in metal and became cyborg creature. Alistair was given a bigger role in the animated series where he became a tragic character who was turned against his will into a cyborg.
Spider-Carnage
In the comics he was a nothing character, but in the animated series he is an amazing antagonist decades ahead of his time. Spider-Carnage was an alternate universe version of Peter Parker who was driven near the edge by a series of tragedies, such as the death of Uncle Ben, Aunt May and Mary Jane. He was eventually kidnapped by Miles Warren who created a clone of him, with both Parker and the clone escaping. The clone changed his name to Ben Reilly and became the Scarlet Spider. However a test later revealed that Ben might be the original as both he and Parker escaped at the same time and just assumed Ben was the clone. Following this Parker bonds to the Carnage symbiote which drives him completely insane, and they become Spider-Carnage.
Spider-Carnage subsequently destroys Manhattan with the aid of the Hobgoblin and Green Goblin as his lackeys. He also works with the Kingpin and Smythe to build a weapon which they think will allow them to control people's minds but instead it will fuse an anti matter bomb to a portal created by an interdimensional machine which will create a black hole that will destroy every universe. Spider-Carnage wants to destroy all of reality because of how he believes it has tormented him.
He actually manages to set it off, but Madame Web a being from another universe, travels backwards in time to before the blast and gathers a team of Spider-Men from other universes to stop Spider-Carnage before he can set off the weapon.
It's insane how inspirational Spider-Carnage was, yet virtually nobody knows about him? The Batman Who Laughs arc, the Zoom arc in The Flash, Journey's End with the Reality Bomb and finally the entire Spider-Verse were all directly inspired by Spider-Carnage, yet he never gets mentioned? Again people celebrate Spider-Man 2 with its Mary Jane being sub Mark Corrigan but not this masterpiece? Further proof of what I'm saying that Spidey's monster foes are insanely underrated.
I love the way in contrast to Davros you can actually feel sympathy for him even when he is planning to destroy every universe, like when he goes on about how the universe has tormented him and now it's his turn.
Also this scene where after his plan is foiled Spider-Carnage flees to another universe and tries again only for Spider-Man to bring in a version of Uncle Ben who was never shot to talk him out of it is incredibly poignant. Again Raimi says the Symbiotes never had any humanity, but I felt more empathy for Spider-Carnage here than any of his villains.
As for which one is the best, well hard to say. I'll probably be unoriginal and obvious and say Venom who has the longest and most interesting history, but a part of me wants to vote for Spider-Carnage. Whilst he only has one good story in Spider-Wars it's a hell of a story.
