Monsters inspired by Venom and Carnage

[burrunjor]

Venom and Carnage, two Spider-Man villains are among the most iconic comic book characters of the last 30 years. However something that sadly isn't commented on by critics as much is the impact they had on the wider sci fi and fantasy genre.

For those of you who don't know their history, Venom's story begins when an alien symbiote arrives on the earth (in most versions, in one its created by scientists on earth and in the original Spidey finds it on an alien planet.) The symbiote then bonds itself to Spider-Man, taking the form of a black costume. It makes him stronger, but also influences him to violence, after which he gets rid of it. The symbiote however then bonds to Eddie Brock, a reporter with a grudge against Spider-Man with the two becoming Venom, a hideous monster that wants to make Spider-Man suffer. However Venom again in most versions retains some kind of morality and won't harm people outside of Spider-Man. Carnage meanwhile is created when the Venom symbiote gives birth and its offspring bonds itself to Eddie Brock's cellmate, Cletus Kasady, a deranged serial killer, with the two becoming Carnage who is so evil and monstrous, Spidey and Venom have to team up to stop him. 










You get the general idea. These are the cream of the crop of Spider-Man villains along with the Goblin. I think they've arguably become a trope of their own. Not as prolific as say the Joker or Moriarty, but there are a number of things they pioneered or at least popularised that pop up in other characters, and their designs have certainly helped to influence other characters.

The creature in Split Second

One of my favourite b-movies. Released in 1993, this film stars the legendary Rutger "tears in the rain" Hauer as renegade cop in the future of eh "2008" tracking down a supernatural creature that murders people and steals their hearts so it can bring their souls to hell. The creature is only glimpsed at the end in the final showdown, but its design is basically Venom with a slightly leaner frame and a visor instead of the white eyes. It's a ridiculous but really fun B-movie, with plenty of action gore, and Rutger being a badass and Kim Katrall as his love interest (she gets her boobs out at one point.) What more could you want?

See here.






Storage 24 monster

Now this one is a bit controversial. Storage 24 was written, directed by and starring Noel Clarke. I'm not going to comment either way on the accusations against him or his attempts at a counter suit until there is a verdict, but I can understand why given the ongoing issue people might be a bit iffy about this.

Still if you can separate the art from the artist then this is a decent little claustrophobic alien/predator knock off with a monster that by Clarke's own admission was inspired very heavily by Carnage.

See here.



Digimon

This character is called DoneDevimon. I'm not really a fan of Digimon I must admit. Not because I dislike it, I just haven't got round to it. Still I do remember this doing the rounds on twitter and yeah it's pretty obviously a Venom expy, though a lot of people have also compared it to Spawn.



Zoom: The Flash

Now I am well aware that the character of Professor Zoom predates Venom and Carnage by many years. However the version featured in season 2 of the Arrowverse show The Flash was clearly inspired by Carnage to the point where I think he was arguably a composite character of Zoom and Carnage. 

The Arrowverse Zoom is named Hunter Zolomon. Hs backstory is the same as Cletus Kasady in every way. He was a serial killer on his own earth. He was abused by his parents until one day his father killed his mother in front of him, after which he was sent to an orphanage where he continued to suffer. After killing a dozen people, he was incarcerated and subject to shock therapy, but after the particle accelerator exploded (which mutated many people throughout the city) he gained super powers and went on a massive killing spree becoming the monstrous speedster Zoom.

Zoom later gathers an army of similar mutants, freaks and monsters, with his right hand being a woman who has sonic powers and a troubled past and who later goes on a redemption story.  He uses this army to attack the Flash's city, plunging it into a state of anarchy and chaos. This is the exact same plot as Maximum Carnage, the biggest Carnage story.

He also much like Carnage can be seen as a monstrous counterpart to an already evil version of the hero. SPOILERS for those of you who haven't seen the Flash. In season 1 The Flash fights Eobard Thawne his dark counterpart, but in season 2 we are introduced to an alternate universe counterpart of Thawne (sort of) from Zoom's universe who is a good guy, though still a bit grey who has to help the Flash with it being a similar set up of the Flash having to work with a version at least of his arch foe.

Much like Spider-Carnage from Spider-Man TAS, Zoom is the monstrous counterpart to the hero from another universe who takes over his city and later creates a weapon that will destroy every universe. Also look at his design. Nothing like the comic version but does bare some similarities to Venom.



Sputnik Symbiote

A Russian sci fi film that similarly revolves around an alien symbiote that bonds itself to people that has been compared to a Russian Venom. It's worth mentioning that Spider-Man TAS was huge in Russia with Venom being its most popular character. Still either way this creature at least explores a similar concept to the lethal protector.



The Batman Who Laughs

This iconic comic storyline bares many similarities again to Spider-Carnage again from the 90s Spider-Man series. Both are alternate universe versions of the main hero who is infected by a very similar villain (the Joker and Carnage.) In both cases they are turned into a hideous version of this villain and the hero, and a combination of this and other tragedies they become an even worse monster and go on to devastate their home city and then threaten to destroy every universe. I'm amazed people don't bring up the similarities between them more often.




Eligos from Ash Vs Evil Dead

This one I think is unintentional, but still it's hilarious that this monster owes a lot to the Venom/Carnage idea as Sam Raimi famously was a closed minded snob about Venom. He dismissed the character because he didn't grow up with him. The sad irony is that Venom was a better fit for his style than any other Spider-Man rogue. Eligios meanwhile is a Demon who bonds itself to Dana DeLorenzo's character Kelly and makes her go evil for a while before they remove him from her. The process of her being taken from her body looks like Venom being ripped from his host. Finally his design also resembles Venom and Carnage somewhat too. 





Sigh think of what an amazing Venom and Carnage movie Sam Raimi could have made if he hadn't been such a f*cking snob about 80s and 90s Spider-Man comics. 

That's enough for now, but honary mention to the Daleks from the Russell T Davies era of Doctor Who. Again I know that the Daleks obviously predate Venom and Carnage, but honestly the Dalek arc from the RTD era of Doctor Who bares many striking similarities to the Symbiote arc from Spider-Man TAS, though I won't go over that again as last time I did a thread about that already. 

[rushy]

I can't wait for Tom Hardy to reappear as Venom fifteen years from now in some Marvel Cinematic Universe crossover

[burrunjor]

Sept 15, 2024 23:19:58 GMT rushy said:

I can't wait for Tom Hardy to reappear as Venom fifteen years from now in some Marvel Cinematic Universe crossover

I don't mind the Venom movies, but they are kind of lightweight for what was such a dramatic, intense story. I so wish Raimi had got his head out of his arse as he was the perfect director for both. Think of his style mixed in with Carnage? 

Funny thing is his version of Doc Ock is far more like Venom than the Ock of the comics. The tentacles basically become the symbiote. 

[rushy]

I always find it amusing when directors get very particular about what they like. Even if I disagree with them, it shows their personality. Especially when it's someone extremely idiosyncratic

[burrunjor]

Sept 15, 2024 23:30:47 GMT rushy said:

I always find it amusing when directors get very particular about what they like. Even if I disagree with them, it shows their personality. Especially when it's someone extremely idiosyncratic

Sorry but in Raimi's case he was an idiot. I agree that sometimes it can be charming, but in this case, much like Bob Holmes with the Cybermen, he refused to do villains who were perfect for him in literally every way based on a stupid bit of snobbery. 

Venom and Carnage feel like they are gift wrapped for Raimi. They are pretty much what you get if you throw Callisto from Xena, Raimi's version of Doc Ock, and Evil Dead into a blender!

Him turning against them and wanting to adapt Sandman, a bland, boring Adam West era style villain because that was one from his childhood, is like if someone told me to write the script for a film about a cockney, black female hero who was based on quirky female singers and called Amy Paloma Shoniwa who travels to another world where Dinosaurs roam and she has to stop an army of vampires led by a 6 foot 6 female vampire babe who they'd lined either Claire Stansfield or Famke Janssen to play and I said "oh no I want to do a version of Watch with Mother because I have nostalgia for that, piss off stop trying to make me do something I don't like". 

That's literally what Raimi's dislike of Venom is comparable too, but sadly his fanboys even after all this time act like it was a shame he had to put Venom in SM 3. 

[rushy]

I don't regret it, we got so many memes out of his pisstake of Venom

[burrunjor]

Sept 16, 2024 0:01:09 GMT rushy said:

I don't regret it, we got so many memes out of his pisstake of Venom

You know here's the funny thing. I didn't mind his version of Venom at all. 

It's not perfect. It does leave out many of the time honoured traits of Venom and didn't give him the focus he should have. Still as a first attempt it's not bad. 

How many supervillains have been perfectly represented on the big screen straight away in their first attempt? Even Jack's Joker as great as he was, doesn't completely represent the villain. He lacks the mystery of the Joker from the comics, him being in love with Vicki Vale does somewhat deviate from the Joker's character and him being a wuss in a physical fight, though amusing isn't like the original Joker who was a badass and thrashed Batman when they first fought. 





I'll be honest here, all things considered I actually think Venom has had a much better history on the big screen than Lex Luthor did. 

Lex has only ever really been represented well on the small screen like Smallville or the animated series. The films however? 

Gene Hackman's versions of Lex is fine as a villain in his own right, but he is not a good representation of Lex. He's too light, he doesn't have the grand ambitions of the comic book version, or the genius intellect. He's just a kind of crooked businessman who ends up out of his depth when Zod shows up. 

Then we have Kevin Spacey's version that is a bland retread of Hackman and finally Jesse Eisenberg that is just an utter joke. 

Grace's Venom in contrast is a legit threat, and actually kills Harry, inflicting the worst tragedy on Peter throughout the three films. He's sold as Spidey's archenemy more than Hackman was Supes. 

I only ever bring up Sam Raimi's take on Venom as it's a good example of a writer being a fanboy first and a director next and Raimi's attitude of "they shouldn't have forced me to do it" when it was perfectly reasonable to ask him to include Venom and in all honesty he could have done a better Venom ironically because Venom and Carnage are such a good fit for his style, pisses me off. Ironically if Raimi stood by Spider-Man 3 then I'd have been less bothered. I also think it's pretty mean of him to throw Topher Grace under the bus who was much like Hackman a really good villain regardless.  

Meanwhile the memers can get f*cked for the most part. Geek culture and all these geek websites and youtubers that trash Grace have absolutely no right to criticise Grace's Venom when they make out that Missy was a legit version of the Master, and faithful to Delgado. Same with Leto's Joker, who I think was poorer than Grace's Venom. At least he was the character. (I know not every person who makes a meme will be that LOL, but I'm just talking about geek culture in general on places like Reddit, sites like Den of Geek etc. They can all f*ck off.)