Post by burrunjor on Aug 23, 2024 12:43:43 GMT
modern DW fandom and sci fi fandom to shame in retrospect. As many of you may know DW and sci fi fandom have been split by the tedious, ever consuming culture wars for the past ten years at least. Both sides are just as insufferable as the other. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a centrist as that is another tribe. Still when it comes to what's actually good for these shows then the political angle from both ends has become more important to fans than DW.
The "lefty" side ensures that actors who would be perfect for certain roles aren't considered anymore or are blacklisted for political beliefs, whilst others who are wrong for certain parts are shoe horned in for the sake of agenda. DW fandom in particular meanwhile seems to take almost a perverse delight in getting people cancelled and at the same time it's all hypocritical as those who are truly in with the bricks get away with much worse like Neil Patrick Harris. On top of that it's also happy to smash existing lore and characterisations for the sake of cheap political stunts, like having Capaldi shoot an unarmed helpless man to shoe horn in a gender bending regeneration, or making Hartnell no longer the first Doctor so the original face of DW is not a white straight man anymore.
The right side however hurl vicious, vile personal insults against the likes of Tennant and RTD, which I won't repeat here as they are serious slander, refuse to watch anything they were involved in (even stuff they liked) and they also accuse people like Chibnall of being communists (as though he has ever had a political opinion that intense.)
Meanwhile looking back at the Pertwee era it is quite incredible how diverse politically its crew was and none of them cared.
We had Terrance Dicks the script editor, a conservative who thought the British empire was a wonderful thing as us Brits knew how to run countries in Africa a lot better than the natives did. He also described feminism as absolutely repulsive and felt that the only role for women in adventure shows was to be strapped to railway lines and rescued by men.
Barry Letts the producer, self described as a liberal and centre left, and also a feminist.
Malcolm Hulke a regular writer, a literal communist.
Douglas Camfield, a regular director who was described as far right by many who worked with him. (One actor, I can't remember who said that what made such a good director was that he was practically a fascist in his beliefs LOL and ran the set that way.)
Richard Franklin a main cast member, who I believe later joined UKIP.
Robert Holmes, a main writer who was described by Dicks as being very left, and later had the Doctor quote Karl Marx!
Finally Pertwee himself had some old fashioned ideas about women. Nothing worse than a man of his generation, but still it was in contrast with Barry. Some of his jokes were also old fashioned. There's an interview with Pertwee and Nicholas Briggs, where Pertwee runs through the list of comedy stereotypes he used to play on stage that he considered some of his funniest routines and one of them in his own words is a "p**f whose mammy turned him that way." Then there is his famous bawdy "show us your tits and I'll tell you" joke.
Ultimately however all of these people evidently got over that because they were regardless of anything else adults who could leave their politics at home and professionals who actually cared more about making a good tv show than grand standing.
Furthermore I think they all held back each others worse traits. For instance I think if left to their own devices, Barry and Malcolm would have made the show too preachy. There are a few times like the end of Invasion of the Dinosaurs where we do almost veer into Jodie territory where the character is actually lecturing us the plebs at home. Thankfully it's not as intrusive as Jodie's stories.
Dicks was a big believer in never talking down to the audience that way and making sure that the sci fi elements were always at the forefront and that if you were going to bring politics into it, it had to be a metaphor that fitted in with the story. As a result of this unlike say Rosa which has a paper thin story that serves no purpose but to get us to the lecture, Curse of Peladon holds up as just a fun sci fi adventure in its own right that you can enjoy without having to know about the politics, same with the Silurians and the Mutants (though to be fair the Mutants is poor for me, but that's not because it's political. It's just dull.)
However at the same time Barry and Malcolm not only did bring a lot of nuance to certain stories like The Silurians, but they also did help DW move with the times. If it had just been Jon and Terrance the female characters would have been lame, boring and damsels, but it was thanks to Barry we got great companions like Sarah (with Lis Sladen saying that Barry was really the creator of her character and understood her the best.)
You could never, EVER get a set up like that these days. Imagine what the fans on twitter who frequently get Big Finish to fire people would do "excuse me BBC, I demand that you fire Terrance Dicks. Doctor Who is all about kindness and acceptance and so I want a Nazi scumbag with outdated views like his to never ever work again and laugh at what a loser he is."
"Why is a far righter like Douglas Camfield been asked to direct a story like Inferno? I find that offensive and will not be watching your show until he is gone."
Also alternatively the right wingers would constantly bring up "COMMUNISM KILLED 150 MILLION PEOPLE" (It didn't btw, that figure comes from literal Nazi propaganda the black book of communism.) FIRE HULKE, WE DON'T WANT THAT IDEOLOGY REACHING OUR KIDS OR ANOTHER 105768 GAZILLION PEOPLE WILL PERISH LIKE LAST TIME.
IMO fandom needs to grow up again. I also think a lot of these activist fans need to realise one thing. They're not actually political. They are simply like people who support a football team who have chosen left or right and want it to be their little club only. Normal people meanwhile just want a good sci fi show and that's that.
The "lefty" side ensures that actors who would be perfect for certain roles aren't considered anymore or are blacklisted for political beliefs, whilst others who are wrong for certain parts are shoe horned in for the sake of agenda. DW fandom in particular meanwhile seems to take almost a perverse delight in getting people cancelled and at the same time it's all hypocritical as those who are truly in with the bricks get away with much worse like Neil Patrick Harris. On top of that it's also happy to smash existing lore and characterisations for the sake of cheap political stunts, like having Capaldi shoot an unarmed helpless man to shoe horn in a gender bending regeneration, or making Hartnell no longer the first Doctor so the original face of DW is not a white straight man anymore.
The right side however hurl vicious, vile personal insults against the likes of Tennant and RTD, which I won't repeat here as they are serious slander, refuse to watch anything they were involved in (even stuff they liked) and they also accuse people like Chibnall of being communists (as though he has ever had a political opinion that intense.)
Meanwhile looking back at the Pertwee era it is quite incredible how diverse politically its crew was and none of them cared.
We had Terrance Dicks the script editor, a conservative who thought the British empire was a wonderful thing as us Brits knew how to run countries in Africa a lot better than the natives did. He also described feminism as absolutely repulsive and felt that the only role for women in adventure shows was to be strapped to railway lines and rescued by men.
Barry Letts the producer, self described as a liberal and centre left, and also a feminist.
Malcolm Hulke a regular writer, a literal communist.
Douglas Camfield, a regular director who was described as far right by many who worked with him. (One actor, I can't remember who said that what made such a good director was that he was practically a fascist in his beliefs LOL and ran the set that way.)
Richard Franklin a main cast member, who I believe later joined UKIP.
Robert Holmes, a main writer who was described by Dicks as being very left, and later had the Doctor quote Karl Marx!
Finally Pertwee himself had some old fashioned ideas about women. Nothing worse than a man of his generation, but still it was in contrast with Barry. Some of his jokes were also old fashioned. There's an interview with Pertwee and Nicholas Briggs, where Pertwee runs through the list of comedy stereotypes he used to play on stage that he considered some of his funniest routines and one of them in his own words is a "p**f whose mammy turned him that way." Then there is his famous bawdy "show us your tits and I'll tell you" joke.
Ultimately however all of these people evidently got over that because they were regardless of anything else adults who could leave their politics at home and professionals who actually cared more about making a good tv show than grand standing.
Furthermore I think they all held back each others worse traits. For instance I think if left to their own devices, Barry and Malcolm would have made the show too preachy. There are a few times like the end of Invasion of the Dinosaurs where we do almost veer into Jodie territory where the character is actually lecturing us the plebs at home. Thankfully it's not as intrusive as Jodie's stories.
Dicks was a big believer in never talking down to the audience that way and making sure that the sci fi elements were always at the forefront and that if you were going to bring politics into it, it had to be a metaphor that fitted in with the story. As a result of this unlike say Rosa which has a paper thin story that serves no purpose but to get us to the lecture, Curse of Peladon holds up as just a fun sci fi adventure in its own right that you can enjoy without having to know about the politics, same with the Silurians and the Mutants (though to be fair the Mutants is poor for me, but that's not because it's political. It's just dull.)
However at the same time Barry and Malcolm not only did bring a lot of nuance to certain stories like The Silurians, but they also did help DW move with the times. If it had just been Jon and Terrance the female characters would have been lame, boring and damsels, but it was thanks to Barry we got great companions like Sarah (with Lis Sladen saying that Barry was really the creator of her character and understood her the best.)
You could never, EVER get a set up like that these days. Imagine what the fans on twitter who frequently get Big Finish to fire people would do "excuse me BBC, I demand that you fire Terrance Dicks. Doctor Who is all about kindness and acceptance and so I want a Nazi scumbag with outdated views like his to never ever work again and laugh at what a loser he is."
"Why is a far righter like Douglas Camfield been asked to direct a story like Inferno? I find that offensive and will not be watching your show until he is gone."
Also alternatively the right wingers would constantly bring up "COMMUNISM KILLED 150 MILLION PEOPLE" (It didn't btw, that figure comes from literal Nazi propaganda the black book of communism.) FIRE HULKE, WE DON'T WANT THAT IDEOLOGY REACHING OUR KIDS OR ANOTHER 105768 GAZILLION PEOPLE WILL PERISH LIKE LAST TIME.
IMO fandom needs to grow up again. I also think a lot of these activist fans need to realise one thing. They're not actually political. They are simply like people who support a football team who have chosen left or right and want it to be their little club only. Normal people meanwhile just want a good sci fi show and that's that.