Trial of a Time Lord vs Flux

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Which series long story was better? 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Flux is messy, but it does have the Angels, the Cybermen, the Daleks and the Sontarans compared to pussy faces and a silly robot. It also has better stories in War of the Sontarans and Time of the Angels. However, the worst episodes of the series are much worse than Trial's. The Valeyard is way more interesting than the new villains introduced in Flux too. Trial is more coherent as a narrative compared to Flux's scatterbrain structure. 

It's hard to say. Flux is better than the rest of the Whittaker era while Trial is far worse than anything else in the Baker era.

[Ludders II]

Trial by default.

[zarius]

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[burrunjor]

Aug 20, 2024 14:17:09 GMT Cherry Pepsi Maxil said:

Flux is messy, but it does have the Angels, the Cybermen, the Daleks and the Sontarans compared to pussy faces and a silly robot. It also has better stories in War of the Sontarans and Time of the Angels. However, the worst episodes of the series are much worse than Trial's. The Valeyard is way more interesting than the new villains introduced in Flux too. Trial is more coherent as a narrative compared to Flux's scatterbrain structure. 

It's hard to say. Flux is better than the rest of the Whittaker era while Trial is far worse than anything else in the Baker era.

Yeah but the Daleks and Cybermen are both shat on from a huge height. Both undermined terribly for...... the Sontarans of all creatures? That's insane quite frankly. 

I mean I like the Sontarans don't get me wrong, but that is like doing a story where the Ventriloquest beats the shit out of the Joker, Catwoman and the Penguin or where Venom, the Green Goblin and Doc Ock are thrashed by a minor foe like the Spot? 

Is Chibnall a mad Sontaran fanboy or did he just not know how to juggle these characters. (Probably a bit of both.) 

[rushy]

Considering that the Sontarans had been turned into a complete joke after 2008, I can't be too mad. The Cybermen have the series 10 finale, and the Daleks... well, Into the Dalek is at least respectful. But neither of them have been reduced to comedy sidekicks either. 

[burrunjor]

Aug 24, 2024 13:56:23 GMT rushy said:

Considering that the Sontarans had been turned into a complete joke after 2008, I can't be too mad. The Cybermen have the series 10 finale, and the Daleks... well, Into the Dalek is at least respectful. But neither of them have been reduced to comedy sidekicks either. 

You don't big up one villain by trashing another though. 

Also the Daleks and Cybermen I'd say had a worst showing than the Sontarans. 

Cybermen, 5 million of them couldn't even kill ONE Dalek. Then they were overshadowed and enslaved by Mercy Hatrigan, then one gets killed by Auton Rory using a sword, then several fleets of them get killed by the Doctor to make another villain scared, then they get beaten up by James Corden's baby, then in the story that is supposed to make them scary, their leader takes over Matt Smith and for an emotionless creature he hams it up, dances on tables and flirts with Jenna Coleman and tries to kiss her, and is ultimately beaten by his vanity. Then after that one does become a comedy sidekick "Handles" then they become Missy's servants who are made to do the air hostess pose and get wiped out by the power of luuuuurve for the second time, then one is enslaved by the Time Lords security system in s9, whilst another was camping out in a refugee camp before with other aliens, and whilst the s10 finale is good in its first part, in its second once again the horror of cyber converson is undone by "the power of luuuuuurve, a force from above".

Then in Jodie's era we have them once again becoming the Masters bitch boys and then a whole squad of them gets vaporized by a rebel girl or whatever. 

I know their history in classic who wasn't always the greatest but come on here.

Daleks meanwhile? Dreadful member berry story in 2015, which aside from the usual Capaldi pretentiousness, sees them defeated by being smeared in literal shit. Following that we then have a Dalek get enslaved by the Time Lords in s9, then we have a Dalek get vaporized by the water girl in s10, then we have them get wiped out by the flux, then we have them being okay with sharing the earth with the Cybermen and then finally we have their dark, gritty origins that were a metaphor for the horrors of race hatred, fascism, nuclear power be reduced to a comedy skit that pokes fun at their design and destroys the design and character of Davros. 

In all honesty the Sontarans didn't have as bad time of it at all? 

One appearance as villains in The Pandorica Opens that was cool, then Strax who okay he is a bit of a comedy character, he's never actively undermined for other villains and he was an interesting new take on the Sontarans underneath the comedy, of one who was seen as defective and cast out. Furthermore making jokes about the Sontarans rigidity because they're so obsessed with war has really always been a part of their character. Bob Holmes himself always intended for there to be a bit of the colonial Blimp in them. We even see that when Linx first appears and is arrogant enough to claim the planet earth as part of the Sontaran empire despite being surrounded by dozens of armed men who could kill him.