If Gatwa's run ended now...

[burrunjor]

Come on you can totally see Simm and Bleach's Davros filling these roles. 

[rushy]

Leaving aside the fact that Missy is a complete joke of a character, they did only meet very briefly in one scene. It's hard to have any excitement about it when there's no dynamic. If Simm showed up, flicked his eye and then ran out again, it wouldn't mean anything either.

[burrunjor]

Aug 15, 2024 22:31:02 GMT rushy said:

Leaving aside the fact that Missy is a complete joke of a character, they did only meet very briefly in one scene. It's hard to have any excitement about it when there's no dynamic. If Simm showed up, flicked his eye and then ran out again, it wouldn't mean anything either.

That's not the point. If that did happen with Simm just flicking him in the eye and running out, yes people would say it was shit and an unbelievable waste, but there would be an acknowledgement that the Master and Davros met. That would probably be what most people would say about the episode. "You had the Master on Skaro and he and Davros share one tiny scene together? What a waste."

The point is nobody even commented on it being a waste that the big Davros/Master meeting was a comedy gag, because nobody thought of it as the Master/Davros meeting because it wasn't. 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

I honestly can't remember Missy meeting Davros. It's one of those things one should remember in normal circumstances, but then NuWho is shit and spunks everything away.

[burrunjor]

Aug 16, 2024 10:55:59 GMT Cherry Pepsi Maxil said:

I honestly can't remember Missy meeting Davros. It's one of those things one should remember in normal circumstances, but then NuWho is shit and spunks everything away.

It was another example of something being wasted in the last ten years of new who. Return of Gallifrey, Doctors two greatest individual enemies meeting, return of many fan favourite companions etc. 

Damn shame. 

To be fair to the Fitzroy Crowd this seems to be a pattern in the modern world for guys who get hold of big franchises. Bruce Timm should really stop doing Batman stories for instance. 

His influence on them in the last few years has been pretty negative. It's not as destructive as the Fitzroy Crowds on DW to be fair, but that's also possibly because he doesn't have the influence and due to the many different canons Batman has, no one can f*ck it up like that. (See Rushy and if you're still reading this Yak, that's why multiple canons are good, though I agree you don't have to do a multiverse for them to work, and given how badly that fad has been f*cked about maybe it is best just to leave that aspect out, for now at least.)

Still a lot of Bruce Timm's recent Batman stuff to me is very similar to the Fitzroy Crowd in that it's politically motivated in a shallow way, tired and unoriginal and is also just him living out his sexual fantasies. 

That Harley Quinn film he did where she chains Robin to the bed and shags him and we see she has two arse cracks was a joke, and let's not even get into his Bats and Barbara fixation. 

It's sad really to see all of these guys just not be able to let something go.  

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

The episodes I like/can stand watching from both eras:

War of the Sontarans
Eve of the Daleks
The Power of the Doctor
The Giggle (which wasn't really Gatwa, but it's tied to that era)
The Devil's Chord
The Legend of Ruby Sunday

I didn't mind 73 Yards, but the first half was much better. I would have loved an entire episode of Ruby being in a creepy pub in the middle of a rainy night with that woman standing outside.

There's stuff in both eras I have fun watching but the bad stuff is about ten times worse than duds of other eras. Arachnids in the UK, Orphan 55, Space Babies and Rogue are in a league of their own when it comes to mindblowingly offensive telly.

[rushy]

Mine would be:

It Takes You Away
Wild Blue Yonder

[burrunjor]

If his era ended now? 





That is awful. No matter what excuse they try to push it's not going to work. I guess RTD can share a pint down the pub with Bruce Timm, and George Lucas  for guys who just stayed on a bit too long. Hey better that than Kathleen Kennedy whose legacy is nothing but crap.  

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Aug 16, 2024 17:26:28 GMT burrunjor said:

If his era ended now? 





That is awful. No matter what excuse they try to push it's not going to work. I guess RTD can share a pint down the pub with Bruce Timm, and George Lucas  for guys who just stayed on a bit too long. Hey better that than Kathleen Kennedy whose legacy is nothing but crap.  

Fans love to blame the ratings on the weather even if it's been raining.

[ClockworkOcean]

I don't really think of them as separate eras. It's all just the “post-Capaldi era” to me, and it's all essentially worthless. None of it is a valid continuation even of NuWho, let alone the classic series.

What I will say is that as much as I like to slag him off, I don't actually consider Russell to be completely talentless. I think he's an average, moderately talented writer who's allowed his redeeming qualities to be swamped by narcissism, megalomania, self-indulgence and ideological possession. Chibnall, on the other hand, has zero talent whatsoever and shouldn't be working in the industry at all.

At least I can look at something like Wild Blue Yonder and say that it contains some interesting ideas, that it would be a good episode if not for the surrounding context and the few glaring problems dragging it down, whereas I can’t think of anything even faintly praiseworthy to say about any of the Chibnall/Whittaker episodes I saw.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Some of the Whittaker era is comfort telly for me. Eve of the Daleks and Power of the Doctor are nice to sit down and relax to. To be honest I fancy Jodie (if you hadn't guessed) and I'm crazy in love with Mandip so there's obviously extra interest for me. I never wanted to get off on the wrong foot with the era, but the politics and shit writing were all too much back in 2018. Flux onwards is a mixed bag, but it is a vast improvement on what came before and Jodie really starts to click for me as the Doctor during this period.

[Ludders II]

Aug 17, 2024 21:28:33 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

I don't really think of them as separate eras. It's all just the “post-Capaldi era” to me, and it's all essentially worthless. None of it is a valid continuation even of NuWho, let alone the classic series.

I know that I don't have a lot of time for ANY NuWho, but I don't think the Capaldi era gets a free-pass to be exempted from the lower tier era of NuWho. Although there are huge swathes of both RTD1 and the Moffat era that I have absolutely no time for, the real dead end point for me was the great farce that was Dark Water/Death In Heaven.
In so many ways, the Capaldi era was the deal breaker. Here was an older actor who looked way more like a Classic Doctor than ANY of his predecessors. But they wantonly stuffed it up. He may've been a thousand times better as an actor than Jodeh or Nc*nti, but what was the point of being good when the showrunner was so determined to f*ck it all away? To me that makes it just as worthless as what followed. In one sense it's even more of a salt in the wound, because it could have, and should have been good.

Aug 17, 2024 21:28:33 GMT ClockworkOcean said:

What I will say is that as much as I like to slag him off, I don't actually consider Russell to be completely talentless. I think he's an average, moderately talented writer who's allowed his redeeming qualities to be swamped by narcissism, megalomania, self-indulgence and ideological possession. Chibnall, on the other hand, has zero talent whatsoever and shouldn't be working in the industry at all.

You're far too kind to RTD in my opinion.
I think he's essentially a soap opera writer who was probably inspired by Sean from Coronation Street, and wanted to focus of the gay scene, and thus peaked with the likes of Queer as Folk and It's a Sin. I think he's shit at SF and SF concepts, as his many rubbish plots over the years testify. He just happened to be a Dr Who fan (allegedly), and thought he could do that as well. He's now achieved his lifetime desire to have a Doctor styled after a gay man.
As for Chibbers, I would say that at best he's an average hack who's forte is clearly not Dr Who. And yet his two episodes of Life On Mars were perfectly serviceable if not the best episodes of the series, he clearly seemed more comfortable in that kind of zone.
Having said that, the missus and I both have a penchant for police procedural dramas, and tried out Broadchurch long before I really knew about him or Whittaker, and both of us found it dreary and dull in the extreme, and gave up after two episodes.
The only sort of good thing I can say about Chinball is that at least most people apart from ideological diehards and DW brand worshippers, seem to recognise that he's not all that. It that context, he's not overrated in the same way that Davies and Moffat are. That's why I don't go after Chibs as much, because he's not as horrendously overrated, generally speaking, as the other two. I'd even say that Moffat gets let off too much around these parts, largely because he struck lucky with Matt Smith, initially. But IMO, he has also penned some horrendously bad episodes, particularly from S6 onwards.
Anyway, I've digressed somewhat, but those are my thoughts, for what it's worth.