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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 2, 2024 13:35:54 GMT
I hope you're right, but it's been a few years now that people have been saying that. I'm cynical that the various powers that be won't let it go so easily. And if the various websites and DW groups are anything to go by, these kind of so-called fans aren't insignificant in number. It may be a joke to us as 'traditional' fans, but not to them. But I hope I'm wrong. So do i. Something to consider though, of course, is that it isn't just us and them. The general audience has scarpered in droves. They're just not interested anymore. Ask the average man or woman on the street and they don't know or give a toss about the current state of Doctor Who. They don't know what the f*ck a "Culture War" is either. And this is the demographic we've always been told is the most important... Yes, and the "fans" who operate on said websites are naturally going to parrot the official BBC orthodoxy. They aren't comprised of the general audience. Rather, they're comprised of people who either rely on Doctor Who as a financial lifeline (courtesy of connections) or as a literal lifeline (ala, not coping with Doctor Who going off air). They're a concentrated mass of people with particularly narrow interests, but in no way representative of the actual consensus. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Aug 2, 2024 13:38:09 GMT
So do i. Something to consider though, of course, is that it isn't just us and them. The general audience has scarpered in droves. They're just not interested anymore. Ask the average man or woman on the street and they don't know or give a toss about the current state of Doctor Who. They don't know what the f*ck a "Culture War" is either. And this is the demographic we've always been told is the most important... Yes, and the "fans" who operate on said websites are naturally going to parrot the official BBC orthodoxy. They aren't comprised of the general audience. Rather, they're comprised of people who either rely on Doctor Who as a financial lifeline (courtesy of connections) or as a literal lifeline (ala, not coping with Doctor Who going off air). They're a concentrated mass of people with particularly narrow interests, but in no way representative of the actual consensus. Exactly. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 2, 2024 13:38:55 GMT
They say that on Gallifrey Base all the time....  Pretty sure that's also even been a DVD special feature once too Is that one titled " Was Doctor Who Rubbish?"? It was initially on the DVD of The Three Doctors before being transferred to Timelash amidst the Blu-Ray releases. Not that I can recall what its primary arguments are... |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 2, 2024 13:43:36 GMT
We can add that to the ever growing list of what Doctor Who has ALWAYS been. Next people will be saying, "Doctor Who has ALWAYS been shite!" They say that on Gallifrey Base all the time.... And on the Doctor Who Tardisposting Facebook group. Some of the memes there are priceless, but the comments sections are often clogged with such apologia. I think the common argument among such groups is "It's crap, but that's why it's so good". A prime example of doublespeak if ever there was one. Even if you enjoyed it merely ironically and genuinely believed it was never any good, why would such a form of enjoyment catalyse your committed fandom? It doesn't make any sense. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Aug 2, 2024 13:52:43 GMT
"Hello and Welcome to the 57th annual meeting of the Excrement Appreciation Society!"
"But it stinks..?!"
"It's always stunk..!"
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Post by UncleDeadly on Aug 2, 2024 14:03:30 GMT
"Yes, Citizen Kane is shit. But there's a war on..!"
Orson Welles, 1940.
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 2, 2024 14:14:52 GMT
I hope you're right, but it's been a few years now that people have been saying that. I'm cynical that the various powers that be won't let it go so easily. And if the various websites and DW groups are anything to go by, these kind of so-called fans aren't insignificant in number. It may be a joke to us as 'traditional' fans, but not to them. But I hope I'm wrong. So do i. Something to consider though, of course, is that it isn't just us and them. The general audience has scarpered in droves. They're just not interested anymore. Ask the average man or woman on the street and they don't know or give a toss about the current state of Doctor Who. They don't know what the f*ck a "Culture War" is either. And this is the demographic we've always been told is the most important... I've been saying that for years. That's what makes it so funny is guys like Jon Blum will always tell me that trying to do a modern updated version of the classic era would be a disaster because it's such a niche thing, Joe public wouldn't care for it and the show must be for everybody, not a niche group of people. Similarly this is always the accepted mantra we're spoon fed by youtubers, critics and that's written on huge, official sites like TV Tropes. Here on their article about tv shows pandering to their fanbase. John Nathan-Turner's tenure as producer of Doctor Who (1980-1989) is frequently criticised for doing this. He was probably the first producer to really interact with and respond to the desires of the fanbase, an approach that initially made him quite popular. Unfortunately, this same approach eventually resulted in constant ham-fisted continuity references, return appearances from one-off villains who hadn't been seen in ten years, sequels to stories that hadn't been broadcast in twenty years, an overdose of self-indulgence, and the gradual feeling that the only people who could enjoy the show were anoraky types who kept detailed charts of every single thing that happened in the show's twenty-five-year history and had them close at hand while watching. To make matters worse, some of the original material being referenced was material that was missing and presumed wiped, making it near-impossible to actually go back and catch up on it. As it turned out, the fanbase was quick to realize that what they thought they wanted wasn't actually what they really wanted, and today Nathan Turner's tenure is considered controversial by fans, to say the least; he's often blamed for the show's gradual decline in popularity and eventual cancellation in the 1980s.For an example of what might be considered the nadir of this approach, watch the serial "Attack of the Cybermen", which is almost incomprehensible without a degree in background knowledge of the show's history. And if you are that kind of fan, you'll be outraged by the conflicts between the story and the stories it was trying to reference, which caused a Continuity Snarl that some people think was the reason that the 2000s Cyberstories started from scratch with Cybermen from a parallel universe.Graham Williams, the producer preceding John Nathan-Turner, actually advised JN-T not to do this, on the grounds that fans were with you anyway and it was casual viewers who had to be convinced. (For example, he'd made "The Invasion of Time", a direct sequel to "The Deadly Assassin", a story fans at the time hated for Fan Disliked Explanations but that got excellent ratings, AI scores and critical appraisal.)Thing is though all of that has been true and more of New Who since 2014. It has wallowed in continuity, carried on stories from decades ago like the Simm Master, Doctor/Donna in the 60th, Mondasian Cybermen, it's done two stories that revisited the setting off Genesis of the Daleks (and it buggered both up) brought back Sutekh, and the Toymaker, and it's needlessly brought back past companions, some of whom were never even that popular like Mel. It's reveled in the past about twenty times more than 80s who ever did (purely so that it could legitamize its controversial changes with these member berries, or actively rewrite the past for an agenda or just spite to a particular section of fandom, rather than out of love for the old material like 80s Who.) It's also had producers interact with and listen to the fans again to a much greater extent. JNT went to conventions. The actual publicity for the show meanwhile was still done by mainstream journalists in the JNT era, where as now a lot of it is done by the fans (in addition to them still going to conventions and places like Comic Con. WTF was that ego stroking intergalactic friendship day bollocks if not that?) From Whovian Feminism interviewing Rachel Talalay, to Crystal Dee interviewing Steven Moffat. Even my own friend Claudia Boleyn was an attempt by aging hipster Bendy Cock to try and appeal to what he calls "the youtube generation." Until she didn't dance to his every tune and he manipulated, gaslit and bullied her. It has also unquestionably pandered to a tiny minority of who fans, via the LGBT activists who demanded that the Doctor for some reason be made into their avatar, who get anyone they don't like fired from Big Finish like James Dreyfus and now its viewers are cratering to a far worse extent than they EVER did for JNT, even though they have Disney money, better time slots, worldwide promotion as opposed to being on opposite Corrie and an active smear campaign (which is conveniently not mentioned by TV Tropes and others for why it actually ended in the 80s.) Also I'd like to know what "continuity snarl" Attack has with Tomb? Again these are the types who would think that the Timeless Children doesn't pose any problems to the shows past, but Attack does? It's hilarious just how backward official DW fandom is, and in all honesty how living in the past it is. It still thinks this is the late 00s when DW was on Comic Relief, or it thinks that it's the early 2010s when DW was a favourite of annoying, smug faux fanboy hipster twats who wanted to be geek chic because they liked The Big Bang Theory. Moment's passed boys, you're now even more niche, even more of a dead style than McCoy was in the late 00s. Just accept it and please move on. (Only thing I disagree with is that normal people don't know about the culture war. They do and that's what's depressing. I told you I've been ticked off at work for my opinions, look at how many people are turning to the right, complaining about things like the Olympics etc. People always make that mistake of thinking that the loonies are just loonies online. I remember being told in 2014 that these people will never have an influence over DW as they are just stupid idiots online. How'd that work out for us?) |
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Post by Ludders II on Aug 3, 2024 7:53:13 GMT
I hope you're right, but it's been a few years now that people have been saying that. I'm cynical that the various powers that be won't let it go so easily. And if the various websites and DW groups are anything to go by, these kind of so-called fans aren't insignificant in number. It may be a joke to us as 'traditional' fans, but not to them. But I hope I'm wrong. So do i. Something to consider though, of course, is that it isn't just us and them. The general audience has scarpered in droves. They're just not interested anymore. Ask the average man or woman on the street and they don't know or give a toss about the current state of Doctor Who. They don't know what the f*ck a "Culture War" is either. And this is the demographic we've always been told is the most important... I think the fact that it survived beyond Chibnail makes me cynical of the thing ever going away. I hope it does, but at the same tine I feel both wary and weary of hoping. Davies, Disney and the BBC are all on the same page with politically correct culture. Maybe its ability to get this far has engendered my huge sense of pessimism. But I do hope my pessimism is misplaced. This time. |
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Post by mott1 on Aug 3, 2024 17:57:13 GMT
You're just not typing ferociously enough. Apply Ian Levine-level pressure to your keyboard, and the rage will break through. Like this? F UUUUUCK! Russell T Davies is a C UNT! F uck. This has actually saved me a lot of trouble. By channelling one's anger at the right pitch, one can hurl as many f ucks and c unts as their hearts desire. Amazing! I think even the swear filter was so pissed at the interview it's decided to let any f*ckS or c*ntS hurled at RTD to go through uncensored! Except mine, sadly  |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 3, 2024 21:56:40 GMT
Like this? F UUUUUCK! Russell T Davies is a C UNT! F uck. This has actually saved me a lot of trouble. By channelling one's anger at the right pitch, one can hurl as many f ucks and c unts as their hearts desire. Amazing! I think even the swear filter was so pissed at the interview it's decided to let any f ucks or c unts hurled at RTD to go through uncensored! Except mine, sadly Just fixed it for you. 😉 |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Aug 3, 2024 21:59:09 GMT
Amazing! I think even the swear filter was so pissed at the interview it's decided to let any f ucks or c unts hurled at RTD to go through uncensored! Except mine, sadly Just fixed it for you. 😉 Wot about my f*cks and c*nts, you f*cking c*nt..??!! |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Aug 3, 2024 22:01:16 GMT
Wot about my f ucks and c unts, you f ucking c unt..??!! Happy to oblige! |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Aug 3, 2024 22:02:26 GMT
Wot about my f ucks and c unts, you f ucking c unt..??!! Happy to oblige! Oh...well...alright then... |
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Post by mott1 on Aug 4, 2024 8:29:25 GMT
Oh...well...alright then... Now don’t you feel the right f*cking c*nt, Uncle? 😂 |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 4, 2024 8:33:29 GMT
UGH nobody quote Neil Patrick Harris please LOL.
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