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Post by UncleDeadly on Apr 8, 2021 15:20:25 GMT
Varos is a turkey...? As far as i'm concerned, if pushed, the weakest links of Season 22 would have to be Timelash and Mark of the Rani.
Script-wise Varos is very good, but production-wise is poor. Crappy flatter than a pancake direction, largely bland and cheap looking sets, and there's the occasional bit of wooden acting from the supporting cast. The two mile an hour go karts the Varos guards traverse down barely manoeuvrable tight cheapie tunnels with are unbelievably rubbish. None of which bothers me, particularly. Standard Doctor Who business. 
Yeah, see for me, the old saying "A good script, a good script and a good script" holds true. "Mark" may be a superior production but, compared to "Varos" it's dull as dishwater. I don't actually dislike it per se, but it may just be the least interesting thing the Sixth Doctor ever appeared in.
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Post by RobFilth on Apr 8, 2021 15:25:48 GMT
Yes it's a bummer Jason Connery had to be in Vengeance, and he was no better in those Harry Palmer films. It's a shame his Dad didn't take him to one side and say, "I'm not sshure you're an actor, my sshon!" Not just Connery, the turncoat Varos guard and the woman who Sil almost transmogrifies into a reptile are a couple of planks between them also. In fact, when the Doctor was trapped in the punishment zone, he could have easily protected himself erecting a barrier with the complete set of wooden planks he'd chosen to surround himself with that story. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Apr 8, 2021 15:26:03 GMT
Script-wise Varos is very good, but production-wise is poor. Crappy flatter than a pancake direction, largely bland and cheap looking sets, and there's the occasional bit of wooden acting from the supporting cast. The two mile an hour go karts the Varos guards traverse down barely manoeuvrable tight cheapie tunnels with are unbelievably rubbish. Perhaps "turkey" wasn't the right word and what I meant was"cheapy" Mark of the Rani certainly has a less cerebral and more pedestrian script to Varos, but it's one hell of a sight better looking and directed. Yes it's a bummer Jason Connery had to be in Vengeance, and he was no better in those Harry Palmer films. It's a shame his Dad didn't take him to one side and say, "I'm not sshure you're an actor, my sshon!" Dead-on, yeah. I'm not going to attempt to defend Jason Connery, he never could f*cking act. If it wasn't for the name, i doubt he would have got anywhere. There's a very revealing outtake from "Varos" in which Connery has been given a monologue that requires him to deliver exposition while emoting. It cruelly reveals his limitations and it's small wonder it was cut. Colin, meanwhile, has nothing to do in the scene but recline and listen to Connery and, in doing so, upstages him just using his eyes...  |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Apr 8, 2021 15:34:16 GMT
Yes it's a bummer Jason Connery had to be in Vengeance, and he was no better in those Harry Palmer films. It's a shame his Dad didn't take him to one side and say, "I'm not sshure you're an actor, my sshon!" Not just Connery, the turncoat Varos guard and the woman who Sil almost transmogrifies into a reptile are a couple of planks between them also. In fact, when the Doctor was trapped in the punishment zone, he could have easily protected himself erecting a barrier with the complete set of wooden planks he'd chosen to surround himself with that story. Well, Doctor Who does have a bit of a tradition of supporting planks. It's the only adequate explanation for the Big Finish casting process... |
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Post by burrunjor on Apr 8, 2021 16:24:49 GMT
Well it's hard to say what you mean by bad? The Web Planet is atrocious, and more of a chore to sit through simply by virtue of being longer. However it is arguably less embarrassing than Timelash. Timelash has the Doctor more or less pimping Peri out to the evil Lizard man! "If she doesn't scream the wedding can take place." That is cringe personified. Similarly the Web Planet is the 60s, whilst Warriors is the 80s. You can forgive producers at the start for not knowing the shows limitations budget wise, but by the 80s? Also a lot of the terrible monsters in that period aren't simply isolated incidents like Invasion of the Dinosaurs. (That only happened because Barry Letts was basically suckered by a con man.) Every other week almost with JNT however at that point had a laughably bad monster that could have been realized differently, or that the story didn't even need to have. The Myrka, the Tractators, the monster in Caves, the Slug men in Twin Dilemma, the Mara in Kinda all absurd monsters that should never have been made. I suggest you log out of Burrunjor's account immediately, Sadako. Ingrid Oliver is a goddess, Amy Winehouse was the greatest singer/songwriter of the past 30 years, Dana DeLorenzo and Susan Wokoma and Morgana Robinson should be in everything, women with big noses and chubby women are the cutest, and that Donna woman from Supernatural's cuteness knows no bounds. Are you convinced it's me now LOL. I always did agree with Sadako to some extent on a lot, not all of his opinions about 80s Who. I do think that Saward was the worst script editor. Again though not creatively. I think Saward was a good writer. I loved Resurrection and Earthshock and Revelation and The Visitation. IMO he should have been a regular writer for the series. I think that behind the scenes however he was quite incompetent at getting new writers. He also was quite lazy in doing the work himself on certain stories, and whilst he was a good writer, he didn't get the Doctors character. Also he was two faced to JNT IE went along with everything to his face, and then slagged him off behind his back, which led to the worst environment. I also think that he did the show no favours by stabbing Colin and JNT in the back after leaving and I HATE the way he tries to pin all of the blame on JNT in these docus produced by the fandom incrowd on DVDs too. Having said that though I don't blame Saward for the show being cancelled as that was entirely because of Grade and I can prove it. |
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Post by RobFilth on Apr 8, 2021 17:10:43 GMT
I always did agree with Sadako to some extent on a lot, not all of his opinions about 80s Who. I do think that Saward was the worst script editor. Again though not creatively. I think Saward was a good writer. I loved Resurrection and Earthshock and Revelation and The Visitation. IMO he should have been a regular writer for the series. I think Saward understood more about audience expectation from the programme more than JNT personally. I think that behind the scenes however he was quite incompetent at getting new writers. He also was quite lazy in doing the work himself on certain stories, and whilst he was a good writer, he didn't get the Doctors character. A lot of this is to do with the fact that Saward wanted established writers who could previously come up with the goods back working on the programme and JNT didn't because he wanted to be consistently renewing all aspects of the programme, including the writing team. I actually think a lot of what he did as script editor improved certain scripts such as The Awakening, Frontios, Timelash and Vengeance On Varos and yes, also Warrior Of The Deep too - lol. His aversion to the Doctors character was because Davison was such a blank canvas terrified of coming out of his bolt hole and projecting himself that NONE of the writers had a distinct idea of his character and by the time we get to Colin Bakers Doctor(who WAS more pro-active and distinct) Saward appears to have lost interest altogether. After all, there's only so much you can do with the character who doesn't utilize ANY violence whatsoever, the character had actually been irreparably neutered some years back during the Crackerjack joke-cracking Williams era. I think it was probably due to Sawards intervention that Colins 6th Doctor was probably initially as pro-active as he was. Also he was two faced to JNT IE went along with everything to his face, and then slagged him off behind his back, which led to the worst environment. I also think that he did the show no favours by stabbing Colin and JNT in the back after leaving and I HATE the way he tries to pin all of the blame on JNT in these docus produced by the fandom incrowd on DVDs too. Having said that though I don't blame Saward for the show being cancelled as that was entirely because of Grade and I can prove it. Yes, the notorious Starburst interview was unfair of Saward, instead of lashing out at his former boss he really should have directed his fire at the BBC Head Management who were frustrating the creative process within the programme terribly instead of bitching about JNT going on promotional visits to the States, and yes his criticisms of Colin were unkind and unnecessary. Colin simply wasn't given a proper shot in the role and to stick the boot in afterwards was pretty shit. I will support Saward where it is warranted, but in the stifling creative process he endured during Season 23 it was wrong for him to strike at JNT who was only trying to make the best out of the pigs ear handed to him. Personally, I think both men should have resigned in protest during the hiatus which put both of their jobs into question, had they done so the BBC Head Management would not have subsequently had them over the divisive barrel they did during Season 23 which led to the acrimonious split. |
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