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Post by burrunjor on Jul 11, 2024 12:19:50 GMT
The Peter Cushing movies?
Since the TARDIS and the character of the Doctor himself were completely reinvented for the films and since the BBC have tried and never obtained the rights to feature anything from the Cushing movies in the show (like Moffat wanting to have two movie posters of them in the 50th.)
Does that mean whoever owns the rights to them could make a Doctor Who series featuring the character Cushing originally brought to life?
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Post by rushy on Jul 11, 2024 12:28:35 GMT
They would only have the rights to the new content introduced in those movies, not anything licenced from the BBC or Terry Nation. So no Daleks, no 'Dr Who', no TARDIS, no Susan, no Ian, no Barbara.
A Tom Campbell spinoff? Absolutely.
EDIT: The BBC cannot use anything from the films, but it goes both ways. Anyone with the movie rights cannot use anything the BBC allowed the filmmakers to use, such as the name Dr Who, the image of the TARDIS, the characters I mentioned before etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2024 12:56:39 GMT
Sigh. I've given up hope at this point. How can I call myself a Dr Who fan nowadays, when I haven't enjoyed anything from the show in over 6 years, and most of the fans are completely insufferable? Dr Who will never be what I want it to be under these people, and they don't show any sign of letting it go anytime soon. RTD will leave in a few years, but one of his associates or underlings will doubtless take over. And the worst part? Most fans are loving this. It's not like Staf Wars where a lot of the fans actively hate what Disney has done and there are loads of anti-Disney subreddits and whatnot. With Dr Who, there is no resistance, there's no fight. Most fans will eat up whatever is put out, and I can't stand to be a part of that group any longer.
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 11, 2024 13:05:08 GMT
They would only have the rights to the new content introduced in those movies, not anything licenced from the BBC or Terry Nation. So no Daleks, no 'Dr Who', no TARDIS, no Susan, no Ian, no Barbara. A Tom Campbell spinoff? Absolutely. EDIT: The BBC cannot use anything from the films, but it goes both ways. Anyone with the movie rights cannot use anything the BBC allowed the filmmakers to use, such as the name Dr Who, the image of the TARDIS, the characters I mentioned before etc. Drat, last hope eh. Yak's completely right in his assessment below. I wish he wasn't. I mean again there are c*nts in other fandoms, but nothing like the scale of DW. I really do wish I could tear Yak's argument apart with my rapier wit LOL, but he's right. |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 11, 2024 13:08:14 GMT
Sigh. I've given up hope at this point. How can I call myself a Dr Who fan nowadays, when I haven't enjoyed anything from the show in over 6 years, and most of the fans are completely insufferable? Dr Who will never be what I want it to be under these people, and they don't show any sign of letting it go anytime soon. RTD will leave in a few years, but one of his associates or underlings will doubtless take over. And the worst part? Most fans are loving this. It's not like Staf Wars where a lot of the fans actively hate what Disney has done and there are loads of anti-Disney subreddits and whatnot. With Dr Who, there is no resistance, there's no fight. Most fans will eat up whatever is put out, and I can't stand to be a part of that group any longer. To be honest best hope is for something like what the Orville was to Star Trek and indeed Star Wars itself was to Flash Gordon. Something in the same vein but not it. IE a time travelling hero fighting a race of cyborg monsters and an evil double. Could happen. Doctor Omega is a public domain predecessor. Out of interest why do you or indeed anyone else here think DW fandom became quite so defeated? I've obviously put forward many theories like the self loathing fanboy one, but even then I'm not sure that can account for all of it. It really is unprecedented. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2024 13:17:48 GMT
I think DW fandom has always been very insular, so they want to protect "their thing". I think what you say about the self-hating fanboy is probably very close to the truth. If you notice, every one of the NuWho showrunners (who are, or at least were, fans in their formative years) tried to "legitimise" the show in their own way. RTD sexed it up and inserted his own hangups about gossip mags and the Blair administration. Moffat is a superficial charmer but also an obviously deeply insecure man, so his whole shtick was making the Doctor an awkward nerd who still somehow managed to get the ladies' attention, as well as all that CGI-fuelled bombast and bravado that he thought was going to get him into the big leagues of early 2010s event television. Chibnall turned the show into a "grim up North" kitchen-sinker replete with social issues and political commentary, because those are the sorts of shows he studied as a writer in the 90s. I imagine it's a similar situation with all fans to an extent. Dr Who is that one show that you're always a little bit embarrassed to be watching.
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Post by rushy on Jul 11, 2024 14:42:13 GMT
The fandom is infested with clingy "the show SAVED my LIFE!" mentally ill types who see the Doctor as their LGBT paragon of virtue/best friend.
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 11, 2024 15:08:39 GMT
The fandom is infested with clingy "the show SAVED my LIFE!" mentally ill types who see the Doctor as their LGBT paragon of virtue/best friend. That's what makes it so insane. How in the f*ck did the Doctor become that? He was one of the most asexual characters in fiction and he was a bit of a prick as well. Someone that you might not actually like to be around never mind your best friend. Okay yes you might say that him not showing romantic interest in women meant that gay men once upon a time in the 1970s when there were no gay characters saw him as a role model, but even then that was 50 f*cking years ago and we've had hundreds of gay characters and openly gay entertainers since then, including some of the biggest acts in the world. Even in the revival for the first like 10 years meanwhile all the Doctors romantic relationships were straight? Look at this quote from twitter from someone arguing the Doctor was always a gay icon that got several likes. The Third Doctor wore a ring on his pinky finger. In Britain at the time it was a way of showing you were gay.
It's baffling but I hate to say this, it does go to show you why LGBT groups in fandoms can be among the absolute worst. They can't just enjoy something, they have to make it all about them, make out that they are the only people who truly get it etc. Look at the Xena fandom? Again I understand it in that case as at least the character is bisexual, but even then it gets tiring the way that's all ANYONE talks about. Not its creativity, its mix of genres, its influence, nope just the two leads being in a relationship. Much like Who it never used to be that bad, and ironically was an example of a positive fandom before. Now again I'm not saying this behavior is exclusive to being gay. Obviously not. You know my position on how humans will form into obnoxious cliques and tribes for any reason. However the LGBT groups that form in fandoms, often aren't told to f*ck off the way other obnoxious cliques are when they become too pushy and want everything in the fandom to be about them ( the way that all cliques do, look at Moff making everything Scottish because he was, or RTD making everything Welsh because he was etc.) That's because obviously LGBT people have endured horrific persecution and nobody wants to be seen as a bigot, but at the same time if you let the LGBT groups take over, you're not actually showing LGBT people respect. You're also ensuring that people will come to resent LGBT people in general because they'll start seeing them as cliquey, obnoxious lunatics who have to take over everything. These LGBT fandom cliques don't even represent 2 percent of LGBT fans, never mind people in general (as seen in this thread with our very own Yak.) Still because they claim they represent all of them, then yeah writers will be spineless in telling them to f*ck off the same way they would rightfully to ANY group within fandom that wanted to take over everything to do with the show. The solution around this isn't "never have gay characters, make out homosexuals aren't welcome" it's really basically simple. Don't pander to the worst cliquey LGBT groups and have faith in the identity of what you're doing. That's it! That's all people like Moffat had to do, but sadly they did the opposite, sold DW out completely and in the process have dredged up more resentment towards more LGBT things and also made it look like LGBT led things will always fail too, which again isn't true either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2024 21:31:20 GMT
The Third Doctor wore a ring on his pinky finger. In Britain at the time it was a way of showing you were gay. But Pertwee wasn't gay, and nor was his Doctor. He even went so far as to say that his Doctor was asexual. Do they really think that the stuffy, establishmentarian BBC of the 1970s would allow that out onto a children's TV programme? As usual with this lot, they rely on bad faith arguments and purposefully obfuscate information in order to serve their narrative, such as that video I linked detailing how "Doctor Who has always been queer", in which all of the examples they used of LGBT companions were recent retcons (recent as in the last 5 years on some obscure audio drama) or original characters from the past decade or so, again all of them on obscure audio dramas. |
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Post by iank on Jul 11, 2024 21:32:43 GMT
I don't think it's "most" fans at all. Just the very stupid ones.
The reality, as both ratings and merch shows, is that most fans have gone. All that are left now is the freakshows who are not fans at all.
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 11, 2024 22:24:15 GMT
I don't think it's "most" fans at all. Just the very stupid ones. The reality, as both ratings and merch shows, is that most fans have gone. All that are left now is the freakshows who are not fans at all. You ever been on Reddit? Sadly the fanbase is mostly these lunatics. Mainstream audiences turned against it sure, but ironically in this case the mainstream audiences are the ones who want a more faithful Doctor Who. Again in a bizarre reversal of common sense, the show is being completely altered in order to pander to its fan base, whilst the mainstream and casual fans are the ones wisely saying this crap isn't proper DW? |
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 11, 2024 22:27:22 GMT
The Third Doctor wore a ring on his pinky finger. In Britain at the time it was a way of showing you were gay. But Pertwee wasn't gay, and nor was his Doctor. He even went so far as to say that his Doctor was asexual. Do they really think that the stuffy, establishmentarian BBC of the 1970s would allow that out onto a children's TV programme? As usual with this lot, they rely on bad faith arguments and purposefully obfuscate information in order to serve their narrative, such as that video I linked detailing how "Doctor Who has always been queer", in which all of the examples they used of LGBT companions were recent retcons (recent as in the last 5 years on some obscure audio drama) or original characters from the past decade or so, again all of them on obscure audio dramas. You know what is funny? These modern LGBT fans are the most guilty of applying stereotypes by far. These are people who argue that Delgado was obviously gay because he was well spoken, hell they argue that Hartnell's Doctor was clearly a queer man in the closet because he was well spoken. I mean the very idea. Imagine if you told Hartnell himself that LMAO. Their views on gay people are so backward, they remind me of something a homophobic bully would say "Ohhhh he's posh what is he a bit fruity." |
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Post by iank on Jul 12, 2024 1:04:47 GMT
I don't think it's "most" fans at all. Just the very stupid ones. The reality, as both ratings and merch shows, is that most fans have gone. All that are left now is the freakshows who are not fans at all. You ever been on Reddit? Sadly the fanbase is mostly these lunatics. Mainstream audiences turned against it sure, but ironically in this case the mainstream audiences are the ones who want a more faithful Doctor Who. Again in a bizarre reversal of common sense, the show is being completely altered in order to pander to its fan base, whilst the mainstream and casual fans are the ones wisely saying this crap isn't proper DW? I stand by what I said. These people are not fans, just freaks. |
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Post by rushy on Jul 12, 2024 13:23:09 GMT
It's funny that Hartnell is still well regarded, because he would be throwing insane fits on Twitter at what the show is nowadays, and who watches it. Everyone would be crying about how Troughton was the real first Doctor and putting his performance down.
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Post by burrunjor on Jul 12, 2024 14:15:33 GMT
It's funny that Hartnell is still well regarded, because he would be throwing insane fits on Twitter at what the show is nowadays, and who watches it. Everyone would be crying about how Troughton was the real first Doctor and putting his performance down. To be fair a lot of them try and do that already. TV tropes just lists it as a fact that Hartnell's Doctor has nothing to do with the ones who come after and that Troughton was the one who laid down the template for the character. (That is when they're not saying the Doctor has no character and sneering at you for saying New Who broke it.) Again I think it's because Hartnell was accused of being homophobic and racist. He wasn't really. I mean the guy was born in 1908, so yeah not surprising he had some old fashioned views. Still by the standards of the time he wasn't any worse than most and actually more progressive in some ways. For instance he gave a very nuanced and sympathetic portrayal of a gay man in This Sporting Life, and worked fine with multiple Jewish actors and gay actors and professionals, like Verity Lambert who he considered superior to all the male producers who followed. Indeed that was part of why he had to leave as none could measure up to her. Still the fact that he was a man of his time in some ways has caused some of the modern fans to try and undermine his of all people's contribution to the show, which sadly has been reflected in the show itself via the vandalization of his Doctor as a sad, embarrassing old sexual braggard, and homophobe (which by the way doesn't even make sense within Moffat's crap. This is the writer who has implied that the Master and the Doctor were gay lovers back on Gallifrey and that Time Lords regularly gender flip and have no concept of gender? Why then does Hartnell react like a guy from the 60s to Bill saying she's a lesbian?) Then of course there is the Timeless Children that almost feels like it was designed to rob him, the racist old white man of the honour of being the first in favour of a little black girl. I do agree that he would despise the show. Not even because they made the Doctor gay (as to be fair to him he played a gay man in a time when it was less accepting, though like those of us who like the character I'm sure he would have found it jarring.) Still Hartnell was adamant that the show be taken seriously. Part of why he clashed with later producers was because he felt that they didn't care about continuity, about characterisation and that they had an attitude of "it's just a silly tea time sci fi adventure." Hartnell respected the fans, the audience and saw the role as the culmination of his life's work and career and would get into blazing rows with anyone that didn't treat it with the respect he deserved. Remember his interview sneering at panto and variety entertainment? Can you imagine with this in mind what he would think of RTD throwing in musical numbers, snot monsters, reality tv etc. f*cking hell he'd cry. Of course just because Hartnell doesn't like something doesn't make it the be all and end all of DW LOL, but in this case he would be right. |
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