Sutekh killed Rose

[burrunjor]

As my friend Golden Age Geek pointed out Sutekh permanently killed Rose at the end. 

Sutekh visited every single planet the Doctor has been too and killed all life on them, so he logically visited Pete's World and dusted it. Now at the end the Doctor undid everything by flying Sutekh through the vortex so he would kill his own gift of death (rather than just hit the earth with another energy wave LOL. That's like saying if shoot you, shooting the bullet will bring you back.) 

Anyway he only flew through the vortex of this universe. Each universe has its own time vortex or else the Doctor wouldn't have had any trouble travelling between them. So yes he never flew Sutekh back to Pete's World meaning it is still dusted and Rose is dead. 



RIP Rose and Jackie Tyler 2005-2024. 

[Deleted]

I thought the Vortex was the space between universes.

[burrunjor]

No that's the void.

There is a huge difference. Think of it like this in layman's terms (which to be fair given people who've worked on DW old and new aren't scientists, layman's terms is how they are presented in the series LOL.)

Each universe is made up of matter and time if you will. There is the physical presence, but around it is the vortex which guides it, and the TARDIS breaks out of the physical presence and into the vortex and travels up and down it and breaks back into the matter at an early or later point. Both of these things together however make up a universe, therefore every universe has its own vortex.

The void meanwhile is the white space between universes that separates them.

This isn't just my headcanon. The show itself makes this clear many times in both old who and new who. In The Mind Robber the Doctor activates an emergency system that he says will take them outside the universe and into the void, which is not the same as the travelling through the vortex the TARDIS does every week. The E Space series also make this clear, showing a white space between universes that is different from the vortex. (Also the Doctor travels through the vortex of E-Space into different times and planets, but can't use the vortex of E-Space to travel back home as again, each universe has its own vortex.

Similarly this is why the Doctor and Rose are separated in the first place. The void is too dangerous to cross. Also in The Next Doctor, he sends the Cyber army into the vortex where it will be disintegrated, unlike the Void where they and the Daleks were merely trapped.

So yes since the Doctor didn't fly into Pete's World, then he didn't undo the damage done there meaning Rose is dead.

[burrunjor]

I bet Maxil is jealous of Sutekh here given Yaz is sitting on his face. 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Jun 23, 2024 21:05:14 GMT burrunjor said:

I bet Maxil is jealous of Sutekh here given Yaz is sitting on his face. 

Lucky bastard 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

I guess he fell down a pit in Mark of the Rani, too.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Bringing death to death doesn't make sense. How far does it extend? What if people died exactly at the point when they were consumed by the dust? Do they come back too? What if a killer was about to murder someone before the dust cloud hit? If they're resurrected then they could just go about it again. Bringing death to death will still result in death.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

I think the "everybody lives" aspect fails in dramatic productions. Who honestly gives a crap if there are no consequences and people can just skip off into the sunset after the world has gone to shit without so much as a scuff. Saward had the right idea.

[rushy]

Aug 14, 2024 21:01:31 GMT Cherry Pepsi Maxil said:

I think the "everybody lives" aspect fails in dramatic productions. Who honestly gives a crap if there are no consequences and people can just skip off into the sunset after the world has gone to shit without so much as a scuff. Saward had the right idea.

It works just fine in its original context in The Empty Child, as a contrast to the normal routine. The Doctor treats it as a personal victory. 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Aug 14, 2024 21:07:24 GMT rushy said:

Aug 14, 2024 21:01:31 GMT Cherry Pepsi Maxil said:

I think the "everybody lives" aspect fails in dramatic productions. Who honestly gives a crap if there are no consequences and people can just skip off into the sunset after the world has gone to shit without so much as a scuff. Saward had the right idea.

It works just fine in its original context in The Empty Child, as a contrast to the normal routine. The Doctor treats it as a personal victory. 

It doesn't in Empire of Death. Why should the audience invest in anything if nobody is in any danger? Saward gets a lot of crap for showing the consequences of violence, but he was absolutely right in doing so. If you get hit hard enough in the face it's going to hurt and you're possibly going to bleed too. Same with Lytton getting his hands crushed. 

[rushy]

I'm sure there's a middle ground

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Gabriel Woolf could read a shopping list and make it sound like the most sinister thing ever. I'm glad that he got to return at least. God knows what he thought of the script compared to the gold he got to read in 1975.