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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 13:57:00 GMT
I will always maintain that Series 6 is comfortably superior to any RTD series. It still featured the only genuinely great main cast NuWho ever had, and when examined on an episode-by-episode basis has more in the way of substantial, imaginative science fiction concepts to offer than RTD's first two years combined. I'm not sure I agree with that. Having rewatched both recently, I do think that series 3 is still superior to series 6 in all honesty. Madame Kovarian is such a weak villain, the finale is atrocious, (at least the first two parts of series 3's finale is fantastic and Last of the Time Lords is so ridiculously awful it's hilarious. Arthur Darvil's gun acting is just normal and boring unlike Barrowman's haha.) River is also so much more annoying and intrusive than Jack or even Martha's family, and to be honest the best of 3 I think towers over the best of 6 as stories in their own right. Blink vs the Flesh two parter, or even The Girl Who Waited? The Dalek two parter vs the Cyberman story? Even Lazarus vs the God Complex, whilst it's close I'd say that's better and to be honest I prefer how series 3 starts with Smith and Jones to the drawn out 6 two parter. I do know what you mean though that series 6 and I'd argue series 7 is when the show was most unashamedly sci fi in many respects and the soap opera was kept to a minimum or if it was there it was incorporated into the sci fi like the Ponds baby being kidnapped, rather than Love and Monsters where the reverse is true and it's basically a soap about a geeky guy and a single mother trying to live their lives, with a monster tossed in at the end. This was why the audience that RTD cultivated despised that period, whilst ironically general audiences adored that period. The problem people (and I think even new who critics, including yes some people here) need to get through their heads with modern DW ironically has never been that it panders to general audiences who are too thick it has to be dumbed down. General audiences LOVE sci fi and fantasy. I love the way people act like it's such a niche genre when some of the biggest if not the biggest films of all time are almost all in those genres. Regular people want to escape from their difficult 9-5 lives, paying mortgages, looking after elderly relatives, raising kids and love things that fire their imagination. History has shown that again and again when you give sci fi things a chance, IE good timeslots, proper budgets, proper promotion from Hartnell Who to Matt Smith era Who mainstream audiences will lap it up. The amount of just ordinary men and women I talk to who aren't obsessive fanboys or girls who'll say "Oh I used to love Doctor Who or Star Trek" whether their Doctor was Tennant or Pertwee is f*cking huge. New Who won those audiences in the first RTD era because sci fi and adventure had been away for decades, people wanted it back and lapped up an old favourite. I'm not saying that you don't get stupid trends among general audiences, hence why rot like the X-Factor was popular at one point. I definitely don't want to romanticise the general public, and indeed the sci fi they lap up doesn't always have to be great it can be brainless too, but ultimately they are far more open to imaginative fiction than genre fans give them credit. Sadly a lot of genre fans don't grow up from High School and think that the entire f*cking world is structured that way, with all women making fun of them for liking sci fi, or only smart people like sci fi , regular men are stupid jocks blah, blah, blah, so they are the ones that compromise the genre when they don't have too. In the case of DW, RTD did exactly this for exactly those reasons during his era by making it a soap opera sci fi show. He didn't need to do that, it was based on his own condescending view of the public, but it didn't harm it at first at least. Still in the long run, like I said it meant the obsessive fanbase of his era would be people who ironically didn't like the type of show that DW is most of the time and so when it tried to go back the way in Matt' time, they went mental. All these then 20 something RTD era fans in 2013 like Who Addicts Reviews, Five Who Fans, Mr Tardis all complaining that the Matt Smith era didn't focus enough on the companions home lives. Yeah seeing Amy Pond go for a 9-5 office job is exactly what I want in a show about a shapeshifting alien that can travel through time and space. They were the ones that convinced Moffat he needed to go back the way for Capaldi's time, simply because they were a young, edgy audience and they were worried that they therefore represented general audiences. Hilariously they weren't even close to representing general audiences, and so when it did pander to them in Capaldi's time it tanked, because by that point sci fi had well and truly returned so DW had more competition and also the sci fi soap opera style had been done to death by every show copying Buffy. Still this myth that we have to make it this way to win round general audiences who are too stupid to like a proper sci fi show continued, right the way through the failure of three f*cking eras it was so ingrained. Again even here I'd see people say "I'd rather have had David Warner play the Doctor in a proper sci fi series but that would probably last one year because Joe public wouldn't lap it up." Why? They lapped up 7 f*cking Doctors of that type apart from at the end when it was being sabotaged, and have now rejected 3 Doctors made for the now aging Millennial audience, Capaldi, Ncuti and Jodie? Some lies are just too ingrained it would seem. |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Aug 14, 2024 14:01:25 GMT
I will always maintain that Series 6 is comfortably superior to any RTD series. It still featured the only genuinely great main cast NuWho ever had, and when examined on an episode-by-episode basis has more in the way of substantial, imaginative science fiction concepts to offer than RTD's first two years combined. I do think that series 3 is still superior to series 6 in all honesty. I agree, Series 3 is massively superior. I remember watching Series 6 at the time and wondering why I wasn't as interested in it as I was the previous year. The fact that it was cut into two parts didn't help. For me Series 6 is the worst of the Smith era. Though Series 7 doesn't quite hit the highs of Series 5, it does feel fresher and more coherent than the previous series. Hide, Crimson Horror and Name of the Doctor are gems and I love Matt's chemistry with Jenna. |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 14:09:20 GMT
I do think that series 3 is still superior to series 6 in all honesty. I agree, Series 3 is massively superior. I remember watching Series 6 at the time and wondering why I wasn't as interested in it as I was the previous year. The fact that it was cut into two parts didn't help. For me Series 6 is the worst of the Smith era. Though Series 7 doesn't quite hit the highs of Series 5, it does feel fresher and more coherent than the previous series. Hide, Crimson Horror and Name of the Doctor are gems and I love Matt's chemistry with Jenna. Agreed on all counts. The GI is also a much better villain than Madame Kovarian too. Even though he's in about the same number of episodes, the way he is integrated and Richard E Grant's deliciously hammy performance are so much better. The ending of Bells of Saint John where we learn that woman was snatched by the GI and made into its servant as a child is one of the most genuinely horrifying scenes in all of DW. Imagine being her. You're a child one minute, and like any child your parents are you entire world, then you wake up in an office in the body of an old woman with several people holding guns at your head who are about to arrest you for the murder of thousands of people and your parents are long dead! She instantly goes from a smug, evil bitch you laughed seeing the Doctor take down a peg or two to the most tragic character in the series. THAT is a genuinely genius twist more than anything with River. I'm also an 11/Clara shipper haha. Honestly who fandom are weird. They want Eccelston to shag Billie Piper and Capaldi to shag Jenna Coleman, yet they hate Freema and Tennant and Matt and Clara who were all from a similar background and actually looked like proper couples and couldn't stop flirting with each other (or kissing each other LOL) in their debut stories to the point where you wondered if the actors were having it off, as opposed to Eccelston and Capaldi who both expressed horror at the idea of the Doctor getting off with a woman young enough to be her daughter? It's insane. Given my cougar obsession mind you maybe I'm a bit hypocritical but still. |
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Post by megalomaniacal on Aug 14, 2024 15:09:58 GMT
I agree, Series 3 is massively superior. I remember watching Series 6 at the time and wondering why I wasn't as interested in it as I was the previous year. The fact that it was cut into two parts didn't help. For me Series 6 is the worst of the Smith era. Though Series 7 doesn't quite hit the highs of Series 5, it does feel fresher and more coherent than the previous series. Hide, Crimson Horror and Name of the Doctor are gems and I love Matt's chemistry with Jenna. Agreed on all counts. The GI is also a much better villain than Madame Kovarian too. Even though he's in about the same number of episodes, the way he is integrated and Richard E Grant's deliciously hammy performance are so much better. The ending of Bells of Saint John where we learn that woman was snatched by the GI and made into its servant as a child is one of the most genuinely horrifying scenes in all of DW. Imagine being her. You're a child one minute, and like any child your parents are you entire world, then you wake up in an office in the body of an old woman with several people holding guns at your head who are about to arrest you for the murder of thousands of people and your parents are long dead! She instantly goes from a smug, evil bitch you laughed seeing the Doctor take down a peg or two to the most tragic character in the series. THAT is a genuinely genius twist more than anything with River. I'm also an 11/Clara shipper haha. Honestly who fandom are weird. They want Eccelston to shag Billie Piper and Capaldi to shag Jenna Coleman, yet they hate Freema and Tennant and Matt and Clara who were all from a similar background and actually looked like proper couples and couldn't stop flirting with each other (or kissing each other LOL) in their debut stories to the point where you wondered if the actors were having it off, as opposed to Eccelston and Capaldi who both expressed horror at the idea of the Doctor getting off with a woman young enough to be her daughter? It's insane. Given my cougar obsession mind you maybe I'm a bit hypocritical but still. I prefer s6 to s3 overall - although I like both very much. But, both build towards a conclusion that never delivers, for different reasons. On the plus side, both have episodes that rank among my favourite (Blink, Utopia, the two-part opener for S6 etc.). Both have my favourite post 2005 companions (Martha, Amy) and Matt is a far, far better Doctor than DT. But, both 3 and 6 end f'ing horrifically. The embarrassment of Tiny-CGI-David-In-A-Cage, followed by the Jesus Resolution is no better than the incoherent mess of Wedding (because - of course - Moff wrote himself into a corner with "clever ideas" that he didn't have a decent answer for (see also "Sherlock")). I actually feel more p*ssed of about the S6 finale, because the set up was really interesting (I think) but the resolution incredibly lame - but I still prefer it to 3, mostly because I can't really watch Tiny-David and his hovering redemption without cringing myself into oblivion (although Martha was great.) |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 15:23:14 GMT
Agreed on all counts. The GI is also a much better villain than Madame Kovarian too. Even though he's in about the same number of episodes, the way he is integrated and Richard E Grant's deliciously hammy performance are so much better. The ending of Bells of Saint John where we learn that woman was snatched by the GI and made into its servant as a child is one of the most genuinely horrifying scenes in all of DW. Imagine being her. You're a child one minute, and like any child your parents are you entire world, then you wake up in an office in the body of an old woman with several people holding guns at your head who are about to arrest you for the murder of thousands of people and your parents are long dead! She instantly goes from a smug, evil bitch you laughed seeing the Doctor take down a peg or two to the most tragic character in the series. THAT is a genuinely genius twist more than anything with River. I'm also an 11/Clara shipper haha. Honestly who fandom are weird. They want Eccelston to shag Billie Piper and Capaldi to shag Jenna Coleman, yet they hate Freema and Tennant and Matt and Clara who were all from a similar background and actually looked like proper couples and couldn't stop flirting with each other (or kissing each other LOL) in their debut stories to the point where you wondered if the actors were having it off, as opposed to Eccelston and Capaldi who both expressed horror at the idea of the Doctor getting off with a woman young enough to be her daughter? It's insane. Given my cougar obsession mind you maybe I'm a bit hypocritical but still. I prefer s6 to s3 overall - although I like both very much. But, both build towards a conclusion that never delivers, for different reasons. On the plus side, both have episodes that rank among my favourite (Blink, Utopia, the two-part opener for S6 etc.). Both have my favourite post 2005 companions (Martha, Amy) and Matt is a far, far better Doctor than DT. But, both 3 and 6 end f'ing horrifically. The embarrassment of Tiny-CGI-David-In-A-Cage, followed by the Jesus Resolution is no better than the incoherent mess of Wedding (because - of course - Moff wrote himself into a corner with "clever ideas" that he didn't have a decent answer for (see also "Sherlock")). I actually feel more p*ssed of about the S6 finale, because the set up was really interesting (I think) but the resolution incredibly lame - but I still prefer it to 3, mostly because I can't really watch Tiny-David and his hovering redemption without cringing myself into oblivion (although Martha was great.) Tennant flying on the power of love is f*cking hilarious. I agree it's absolute trash of the highest order. How that was allowed to go ahead baffles me. Also again how the narrative for so long was that this era where things like this were commonplace restored the dignity to DW after the campy nonsense of stories like Curse of Fenric and Remembrance of the Daleks is like a parody. Shows you how badly the show had been bullied by panel show c*nts. Still like I said I think Last of the Time Lords is more enjoyable in its ridiculousness than Wedding of River Song. |
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Post by rushy on Aug 14, 2024 15:33:28 GMT
I still don't get why that's so absurd, when psychic energy has been used in a wide variety of DW stories. It's not the power of love, it's just everyone concentrating at once.
They even tie the Master's own hypnosis enhancer thingy into it to explain why it works. It makes perfect sense as a bit of sci-fi gobbledegook.
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 15:37:28 GMT
I still don't get why that's so absurd, when psychic energy has been used in a wide variety of DW stories. It's not the power of love, it's just everyone concentrating at once. They even tie the Master's own hypnosis enhancer thingy into it to explain why it works. It makes perfect sense as a bit of sci-fi gobbledegook. It's just too sachrine and mawkish and looks ridiculous. Also him being shrunk in the first place is absurd. Why the f*ck does he shrink? Also the way he bursts out of the bird cage and his clothes grow with him. It looks absurd. |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 15:48:20 GMT
One thing I will give you Rushy about Last of the Time Lords is that this is an absolutely beautiful bit of music and it goes so perfectly with Tennant cremating the Simm Master.
I totally respect the impact that must have had on young viewers at the time of how sad it was seeing how the Master, his former friend, and the only other member of his kind was so broken beyond help he'd rather spitefully die than even try and redeem himself. Stories like that, such as Callisto's arc always had a huge impact on me growing up. Again my only issue is that it just doesn't mesh with the older Master and should have been a reboot, but yeah this is still one of my favourite bits of music. Series 3 has an absolutely amazing soundtrack too. I love Martha's theme in particular. It goes so well with her and has such a sad, yet hopeful tone like the rest of the season.
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 15:52:53 GMT
UGH listening to this and remembering Tennant talking about his home just makes me more f*cked off with Chibnall who made that all meaningless. Even within New Who, never mind the old he undermined so much by making Gallifrey no longer the Doctors home. He really was the worst writer in DW history when all is said and done. People shouldn't let RTD living out his sexual fantasies now overshadow how much Chibnall actually did f*ck up for so many generations from classic who curmodgens to Tennant era fans.
Yeah it's one thing for a middle aged thirsty guy to do his writing with his dick (see also Bruce Timm.) To f*ck up literally decades worth of stories for a five minute clunky bit of exposition is quite exceptionally bad writing.
He is the shinning example of mediocrity (to be honest he aspires to that) who only got in because he was wealthy. (The guy had a play produced when he was a teenager ffs.)
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Post by rushy on Aug 14, 2024 15:55:35 GMT
To me, it ended when the Eleventh Doctor chose to have himself erased from the timeline to save the universe. I thought that was a pretty fitting ending (if we ignore that it also means Susan never existed lmao)
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 15:56:28 GMT
To me, it ended when the Eleventh Doctor chose to have himself erased from the timeline to save the universe. I thought that was a pretty fitting ending (if we ignore that it also means Susan never existed lmao) It also means every universe will be destroyed by the Daleks too thanks to the reality bomb (which I always thought was too big a plothole in the Big Bang.) |
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Post by rushy on Aug 14, 2024 16:41:05 GMT
To me, it ended when the Eleventh Doctor chose to have himself erased from the timeline to save the universe. I thought that was a pretty fitting ending (if we ignore that it also means Susan never existed lmao) It also means every universe will be destroyed by the Daleks too thanks to the reality bomb (which I always thought was too big a plothole in the Big Bang.) Unless the Daleks never get around to inventing it in a Doctor-less universe |
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Post by burrunjor on Aug 14, 2024 18:15:47 GMT
It also means every universe will be destroyed by the Daleks too thanks to the reality bomb (which I always thought was too big a plothole in the Big Bang.) Unless the Daleks never get around to inventing it in a Doctor-less universe They'd more likely too given their goal was always to conquer and destroy all other life forms. Without him to hold them back as seen in Genesis think of how powerful they'd have become. |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Aug 29, 2024 14:01:29 GMT
Joy seems very cute. It's a shame Nicola is only in one episode.
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