Resurrection or Revelation?

[RobFilth]

Resurrection doesn't seem to be thought of as highly as it once was within fandom and Revelation is thought of more highly than it originally used to be.

Again, I've gone for Resurrection for the same reasons why I went with Earthshock over Caves. Revelation might be technically a better story with better characterization, but it is heavily dialogue-driven and less accessible to a casual audience than Resurrection.

Besides, I think it's unfairly maligned these days too. Sure, there's probably a plot point or three too many in the mix there which tends to make the second half a bit convoluted, but it's full of classicWho set pieces and gritty action and horror.

[Deleted]

I've always liked Resurrection more.

[rushy]

they're both rubbish, but I prefer Resurrection slightly for having the Doctor more involved

[iank]

Revelation.

I don't care what anyone says, Resurrection is incoherent tripe.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2023 22:05:30 GMT iank said:

Revelation.

I don't care what anyone says, Resurrection is incoherent tripe.

"incoherent"

Would you like a notebook for Christmas to help you write down some of the vital plot points? There's a two for one offer and I've already got Rob's one for Ghost Light in my basket.

[iank]

I'm sorry, Maxil, but it's shite. It's as pisspoor as Warriors, just with better production.

[burrunjor]

Love them both. There's not a bad Dalek story in old who. On the one hand as Rob says Resurrection is a brilliant story to introduce people to the show with, it also manages to balance both the Daleks and Davros rather well, which honestly I don't think any other story does but Genesis. In Destiny, the Daleks become moronic drones as soon as Davros shows up, Revelation is all Davros, and Remembrance reduces Davros to a cameo.

This story however has both with their own schemes, gives both great moments with the Doctor, memorable dialogue and also gives both high body counts. I also love Tegan's exit. I don't like fix fics for Tegan. I prefer the darker ending here. It's not too dark like Peri, but it does show how there are consequences to being with the Doctor. The music when she leaves is brilliant too. Also Resurrection brings the Doctor into the action, has him do more in the plot etc.

However Revelation has got a much more original story, more compelling supporting characters and honestly is the best horror DW story outside of the HInchcliff era. TBH it might even top the Hinchcliff era as far as the horror elements are concerned. Stengos turning into a Dalek is perfect in pretty much every way. The effects are gruesome, the acting is top notch, and the dialogue and scene are brilliant too.

In the end I think that maybe Revelation both stumbles to a greater extent than Resurrection, in that the Doctor does very little, Alexei Sayle's cameos are more annoying, but it has far more memorable moments at the same time.

Honestly it's hard to say.

[Deleted]

There's some great humour in Revelation. I particularly like the notion that Sayle is somehow a comic actor when he's about as funny as watching a dog jump off a bridge. He had the absolute nerve to go after Hale and Pace, two VERY funny people, when his own material is both weak and stale.

[burrunjor]

Nov 1, 2023 22:08:45 GMT iank said:

I'm sorry, Maxil, but it's shite. It's as pisspoor as Warriors, just with better production.

It is NOT as piss poor as Warriors. 

It is so much better paced, has much better cliff hangers like "I'm a Dalek agent" as opposed to Turlough thinking that Davison has drowned after two seconds under water LOL, and it also explores the Doctors morality and burden in a lot more nuanced way with Davros. I agree with the criticism of Warriors that the Doctor comes over as a hypocritical wanker who gives the Silurians a free pass for being genocidal dickheads, whilst being hard on the humans who want to kill in defense LOL.  Also his remarks that the Silurians deserve life more than us because they can do things we can't, ehm Doctor so can the Daleks?

With Davros however his inability to kill him it is made clear is because he is unarmed, which is different to a Dalek that's about to zap him, and it serves as a great development from Genesis. In that story he deliberately didn't kill the Daleks because he felt morally it was wrong. He regrets that in Resurrection and tries to make amends here, but he can't bring himself to shoot Davros when he is helpless, and so Colin tries to make up for that and is willing, but too overconfident so he is outwitted and finally Sylv is ready both morally and practically and finishes the job. It's a great arc that builds up over 13 years, and this also begins the Dalek civil war angle too. I'd also argue that this story continues on from Genesis a lot more successfully than Destiny. In Destiny it's kind of stupid the way Davros instantly wants to go and be with the Daleks when they shot him. This however has him betray them first because he knows they're just going to use and kill him. 

Also its much better acted. Maurice Coburn is brilliant as Lytton, who already shows signs of somewhat greater morality at certain points and is ruthless at others. Is his anger at them slaughtering the specimens perhaps a sign that he might not be as bad or is it as it looks? Terry Molloy meanwhile puts in a good turn as Davros and makes it his own, whilst the Dalek voices are also really well done. I like Brian Miller's Dalek voices as he doesn't just repeat either Peter Hawkins or Roy Skelton like most do and gives it a more erratic quality. 

The two aren't comparable in my opinion. 

[burrunjor]

Nov 1, 2023 22:15:46 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

There's some great humour in Revelation. I particularly like the notion that Sayle is somehow a comic actor when he's about as funny as watching a dog jump off a bridge. He had the absolute nerve to go after Hale and Pace, two VERY funny people, when his own material is both weak and stale.

I liked him in The Young Ones, but he is largely awful in Revelation. I was cheering when the Daleks zapped him. 

[Brian MK.II]

Revelation by a mile. Wonderfully grotesque and does something new with Davros and the Daleks whilst crafting a brilliant set of characters and a world bringing Season 22's Verhoeven and 2000ad inspired thematic threads to the fore. Colin's dynamic with Davros is probably the best after Tom and the story manages to go from horrifying to hilarious camp without feeling tonally confused and as with most of 22, it is one of the most lavish looking stories which unlike the similarly lavish Varos and Two Doctors, actually has much better direction to enhance it.

Resurrection even without it's mess of a plot is a fairly join the dots Dalek story and an unashamed copy of Earthshock. Whilst it's enjoyable enough in spades and boasts some of the best set pieces and one of the best scores of the original series, it's still lacking substance and makes for Saward's worst script.

That said, as brilliant as Revelation is, Remembrance is still the best of the Dalek Civil War trilogy and one of the best Dalek stories full stop (as well as both being two of the best of the entire series)

[Ludders II]

Revelation has a better plot, more atmosphere, and a much better Davros story, and the Stengos scene is brilliant. But the guest performances are mixed. Some excellent, (especially Gaunt) some terrible, (especially Tomasin) and the DJ is just annoying. Meanwhile, the Daleks are peripheral Davros pets, and the voices need way more modulation. Skelton sounds like Zippy. 

Ressurection has an incoherant plot, again mixed performances (especially Colbourne is excellent, but Bewes is terrible), I'm not keen on Davo compared to Colin, and I'm not keen on the whole Movellan plotline, and I think Turlough is shit, anyway.
On the other hand, the Daleks are generally much more formidable, and I love the way the Black Dalek is voiced (as Burun can testify).    And generally speaking there's just more action and it's a bit pacier than Revelation, and a good exit scene for Tegan.

I like both stories, but I'm going for Ressurection, as I find it ultimately more satisfying despite its flaws. 

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Nov 1, 2023 22:23:24 GMT burrunjor said:

Nov 1, 2023 22:15:46 GMT @kengrubshaw said:

There's some great humour in Revelation. I particularly like the notion that Sayle is somehow a comic actor when he's about as funny as watching a dog jump off a bridge. He had the absolute nerve to go after Hale and Pace, two VERY funny people, when his own material is both weak and stale.

I liked him in The Young Ones, but he is largely awful in Revelation. I was cheering when the Daleks zapped him. 

"Destroy that meddling DJ!" 


In terms of the question itself, I like Resurrection a lot more. I always have done. Davison kicks arse in his last season.