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Post by rushy on Jan 24, 2024 22:49:52 GMT
The song in the Goblin episode was shocking. In fairness, that's clearly meant to be the Doctor and Ruby just making it up as they go ("nice to say how diddly-deet you") |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 22:52:45 GMT
The song in the Goblin episode was shocking. In fairness, that's clearly meant to be the Doctor and Ruby just making it up as they go ("nice to say how diddly-deet you") That's clearly shitty writing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 22:53:50 GMT
What teenager would say the word "diddly" nowadays, for real? That's more something my Grandad would have said.
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Post by rushy on Jan 25, 2024 1:14:13 GMT
What teenager would say the word "diddly" nowadays, for real? That's more something my Grandad would have said. Simpsons fans? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2024 9:55:26 GMT
What teenager would say the word "diddly" nowadays, for real? That's more something my Grandad would have said. Simpsons fans? I'd much rather she said "don't have a cow, man" to the Goblin King instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2024 10:23:03 GMT
The song in the Goblin episode was shocking. In fairness, that's clearly meant to be the Doctor and Ruby just making it up as they go ("nice to say how diddly-deet you") The lyrics are shit yeah, but so is the composition and production of the song |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Feb 24, 2024 22:53:16 GMT
I'm probably misremembering, but in Doomsday why do all of the Cybermen get sucked into the void? I get the ones from Pete's world, but the ones made on this planet shouldn't have been sucked in surely because they don't have "void stuff." Maybe the armour is from the parallel Earth or something.
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Post by UncleDeadly on Feb 24, 2024 23:03:29 GMT
they don't have "void stuff." When this is the level of science in your fiction, it's not worth asking any question other than "Why am i watching this..?" |
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Post by Ludders II on Feb 25, 2024 22:04:42 GMT
I think the question is not so much, Does RTD keep f*cking up his own finales, so much as: Does RTD keep f*cking up?
To which of course the answer is Yes.
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Post by burrunjor on Feb 27, 2024 18:11:53 GMT
I'm probably misremembering, but in Doomsday why do all of the Cybermen get sucked into the void? I get the ones from Pete's world, but the ones made on this planet shouldn't have been sucked in surely because they don't have "void stuff." Maybe the armour is from the parallel Earth or something. The Cybermen made from metal on this earth weren't sucked into the void. They remained and were dealt with later as seen in Cyberwoman and the companion book, Made of Steel written by Terrance Dicks. It's about the 10th Doctor and Martha defeating a mob of Cybus Cybermen on earth and is clearly set after Doomsday. It's a decent little romp. Meanwhile I liked Army of Ghosts/Doomsday and thought the sci fi in it was interesting. I do admit Void stuff was a shockingly bad name for the radiation LOL. I think that was just RTD trying to tap into the Buffy speak zeitgeist to be fair. The cookie dough speech from Buffy is still the absolute worst ever example of Buffy speak. RTD never came within a million miles of that shit in terms of cringey, trying to be cute and funny dialogue. |
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Post by rushy on Feb 27, 2024 18:37:42 GMT
The Cybermen made from metal on this earth weren't sucked into the void. They remained and were dealt with later as seen in Cyberwoman and the companion book, Made of Steel written by Terrance Dicks. It's about the 10th Doctor and Martha defeating a mob of Cybus Cybermen on earth and is clearly set after Doomsday. It's a decent little romp. Yeah, but the latter's not part of the television show and the former is an episode of a spinoff not all viewers will have seen. I don't think that's acceptable. |
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Post by burrunjor on Feb 27, 2024 19:08:07 GMT
The Cybermen made from metal on this earth weren't sucked into the void. They remained and were dealt with later as seen in Cyberwoman and the companion book, Made of Steel written by Terrance Dicks. It's about the 10th Doctor and Martha defeating a mob of Cybus Cybermen on earth and is clearly set after Doomsday. It's a decent little romp. Yeah, but the latter's not part of the television show and the former is an episode of a spinoff not all viewers will have seen. I don't think that's acceptable. Fair enough. I think the mistake was in having Cyber conversion be so fast in the RTD era, that left him with the plot hole of they could have converted thousands during the events of Doomsday. I think that took a lot of the horror out of it as well. (The conversion bit in the Tennant two parter reminded me more of the suicide booth in Futurama to be honest.) If the Cybermen had only been on earth in the old series we wouldn't assume that they had time to convert anyone. In Earthshock or The Invasion for instance we don't think they're able to convert lots of people when marching down the streets or the ship |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Feb 27, 2024 19:59:22 GMT
I'm probably misremembering, but in Doomsday why do all of the Cybermen get sucked into the void? I get the ones from Pete's world, but the ones made on this planet shouldn't have been sucked in surely because they don't have "void stuff." Maybe the armour is from the parallel Earth or something. The Cybermen made from metal on this earth weren't sucked into the void. They remained and were dealt with later as seen in Cyberwoman and the companion book, Made of Steel written by Terrance Dicks. It's about the 10th Doctor and Martha defeating a mob of Cybus Cybermen on earth and is clearly set after Doomsday. It's a decent little romp. Meanwhile I liked Army of Ghosts/Doomsday and thought the sci fi in it was interesting. I do admit Void stuff was a shockingly bad name for the radiation LOL. I think that was just RTD trying to tap into the Buffy speak zeitgeist to be fair. The cookie dough speech from Buffy is still the absolute worst ever example of Buffy speak. RTD never came within a million miles of that shit in terms of cringey, trying to be cute and funny dialogue. I find Doomsday entertaining, but the Cybermen vs Daleks aspect is very disappointing. One would assume the Daleks would come out on top, but I would have liked it if the Cybermen managed to destroy at least one or even two of the Cult of Skaro. The Cybermen are my favourite foes though I think Five Doctors, Nemesis and Doomsday really belittle the Cybermen's impact as a genuine threat. I still love two of those stories, I just wish they weren't undervalued in order to make another enemy look stronger. |
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Post by burrunjor on Feb 27, 2024 20:26:18 GMT
The Cybermen made from metal on this earth weren't sucked into the void. They remained and were dealt with later as seen in Cyberwoman and the companion book, Made of Steel written by Terrance Dicks. It's about the 10th Doctor and Martha defeating a mob of Cybus Cybermen on earth and is clearly set after Doomsday. It's a decent little romp. Meanwhile I liked Army of Ghosts/Doomsday and thought the sci fi in it was interesting. I do admit Void stuff was a shockingly bad name for the radiation LOL. I think that was just RTD trying to tap into the Buffy speak zeitgeist to be fair. The cookie dough speech from Buffy is still the absolute worst ever example of Buffy speak. RTD never came within a million miles of that shit in terms of cringey, trying to be cute and funny dialogue. I find Doomsday entertaining, but the Cybermen vs Daleks aspect is very disappointing. One would assume the Daleks would come out on top, but I would have liked it if the Cybermen managed to destroy at least one or even two of the Cult of Skaro. The Cybermen are my favourite foes though I think Five Doctors, Nemesis and Doomsday really belittle the Cybermen's impact as a genuine threat. I still love two of those stories, I just wish they weren't undervalued in order to make another enemy look stronger. Oh I quite agree. I can't believe how badly that was botched. I am a far bigger Dalek fanboy than Cyberman one. (Just ask Ludders LOL, though I think he is the supreme Dalek fanboy around these parts haha, I am next in line though, I'm the red dalek fanboy to his black dalek fanboy.) Still even I think it was ridiculous to make the Cybermen so helpless against them. FFS humans have killed Daleks even in the RTD era like Captain Jack, so the Cybermen should have been able to take some down. In all fairness to RTD he isn't the first to do this. For some reason very few people can write good villain crossover stories. When it comes to the heroes people are often respectful and have them both save the day and work out what one's strengths are compared to the other, but for villains, writers it seems can't do that and descend into fanboyism of having their own favourite completely kick the shit out of the other. The entire Alien vs Predator franchise, apart from the first film by Paul Anderson does this to the aliens. It makes them the Predators bitch boys and undermines them to an insane degree. They have stories where teenage predators kill aliens with their bare hands. I mean ffs a human trap could kill a predator in the first film, but an alien that's blood can melt through walls of a space ship and rip robots in half can't? Similarly every single time the Joker and Lex Luthor have met, the Joker makes Lex his bitch. Once again I prefer the Joker, but come on here! Lex is one of the original classic supervillains. Show him some god damn respect. To be fair though you'll be pleased to hear that the Cybermen for once where on the giving end of this. In the Doctor Who/Star Trek crossover story Assimilation, some Cybermen venture into the Star Trek universe, and the Doctor follows them and teams up with Picard to help them fight the Cybermen/Borg alliance. The Cybermen proceed to betray and almost massacre the entire Borg race, and in one scene we see that if the Doctor hadn't stopped them then the Cybermen would have converted the entire Star Trek universe.  Again it's a universal failing among writers it would seem and I don't understand why? Terry Nation never wanted the Daleks and Cybermen to meet for that very reason, saying that one of them would be undermined and well it looks like he was 100 percent right. The Five Doctors meanwhile wasn't so much a case of this, it was more just Terrance Dicks being a vindictive asshole. He hated the co-creator of the Cybermen, Kit Pedler personally, which is why they weren't in the Pertwee era. Dicks felt Pedler had ideas above his station and wasn't a real writer, just a doctor who was only good for a few ideas and nothing more. What better way for him to further stick the knife in than by having his villain slaughter them in droves and make them look like doofuses in The Five Doctors? Sadly Terrance Dicks could be a total asshole at times. The Five Doctors also set a precedent for them to be portrayed as bitch boys to the Master too. Look at what tv tropes says about it LOL. Always Second Best: They never have a great time of it when the Master's around.
In "The Five Doctors", he dupes a whole bunch of them and gets them zapped by a Time Lord trap.
They're little better than Missy's muscle in the larger backdrop of her and the Doctor's latest fall-out in "Dark Water" and "Death in Heaven", with their main effect on the story being Danny becoming one.
After "World Enough and Time" explored their origin and the horror of the early Cyber-Conversion process, they're Out of Focus in "The Doctor Falls" in favour of the Doctor's relationship with the two Masters, with their main effect once more being someone close to the Doctor - this time Bill - becoming a Cyberman herself.
Likewise, they go from a convincing threat to Big Bad Wannabe status in "The Timeless Children" as soon as the Master arrives, with his killing Ashad opening his own scheme with the Cyber-Masters.
Still the comic supremacy of the Cybermen did at least have them convert and kill the Master in a timeline that was erased.  Silver Nemesis is the least offensive when it comes to undermining them. I actually on my recent rewatch quite enjoyed it. It's such a creative story in some respects, throwing in witches, Nazis, Cybermen etc. I'm even doing my own story inspired by it about a witch who fights robot men. However yeah the Cybermen in certain parts are lame asses, like being killed by a sling shot and the hilarious bit where the Doctor kills them with the fire rockets and they are also a bit out of character too, being quite touchy and emotional when the Nazis talk about their weaknesses "YOU INSULT US!", that said though they do come out on top against the other villains at least. The bit where they slaughter Nazis is probably the most badass Cyberman fight in the entire series. |
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Post by Cherry Pepsi Maxil on Feb 27, 2024 21:16:06 GMT
I find Doomsday entertaining, but the Cybermen vs Daleks aspect is very disappointing. One would assume the Daleks would come out on top, but I would have liked it if the Cybermen managed to destroy at least one or even two of the Cult of Skaro. The Cybermen are my favourite foes though I think Five Doctors, Nemesis and Doomsday really belittle the Cybermen's impact as a genuine threat. I still love two of those stories, I just wish they weren't undervalued in order to make another enemy look stronger. Oh I quite agree. I can't believe how badly that was botched. I am a far bigger Dalek fanboy than Cyberman one. (Just ask Ludders LOL, though I think he is the supreme Dalek fanboy around these parts haha, I am next in line though, I'm the red dalek fanboy to his black dalek fanboy.) Still even I think it was ridiculous to make the Cybermen so helpless against them. FFS humans have killed Daleks even in the RTD era like Captain Jack, so the Cybermen should have been able to take some down. In all fairness to RTD he isn't the first to do this. For some reason very few people can write good villain crossover stories. When it comes to the heroes people are often respectful and have them both save the day and work out what one's strengths are compared to the other, but for villains, writers it seems can't do that and descend into fanboyism of having their own favourite completely kick the shit out of the other. The entire Alien vs Predator franchise, apart from the first film by Paul Anderson does this to the aliens. It makes them the Predators bitch boys and undermines them to an insane degree. They have stories where teenage predators kill aliens with their bare hands. I mean ffs a human trap could kill a predator in the first film, but an alien that's blood can melt through walls of a space ship and rip robots in half can't? Similarly every single time the Joker and Lex Luthor have met, the Joker makes Lex his bitch. Once again I prefer the Joker, but come on here! Lex is one of the original classic supervillains. Show him some god damn respect. To be fair though you'll be pleased to hear that the Cybermen for once where on the giving end of this. In the Doctor Who/Star Trek crossover story Assimilation, some Cybermen venture into the Star Trek universe, and the Doctor follows them and teams up with Picard to help them fight the Cybermen/Borg alliance. The Cybermen proceed to betray and almost massacre the entire Borg race, and in one scene we see that if the Doctor hadn't stopped them then the Cybermen would have converted the entire Star Trek universe. Again it's a universal failing among writers it would seem and I don't understand why? Terry Nation never wanted the Daleks and Cybermen to meet for that very reason, saying that one of them would be undermined and well it looks like he was 100 percent right. The Five Doctors meanwhile wasn't so much a case of this, it was more just Terrance Dicks being a vindictive asshole. He hated the co-creator of the Cybermen, Kit Pedler personally, which is why they weren't in the Pertwee era. Dicks felt Pedler had ideas above his station and wasn't a real writer, just a doctor who was only good for a few ideas and nothing more. What better way for him to further stick the knife in than by having his villain slaughter them in droves and make them look like doofuses in The Five Doctors? Sadly Terrance Dicks could be a total asshole at times. The Five Doctors also set a precedent for them to be portrayed as bitch boys to the Master too. Look at what tv tropes says about it LOL. Always Second Best: They never have a great time of it when the Master's around.
In "The Five Doctors", he dupes a whole bunch of them and gets them zapped by a Time Lord trap.
They're little better than Missy's muscle in the larger backdrop of her and the Doctor's latest fall-out in "Dark Water" and "Death in Heaven", with their main effect on the story being Danny becoming one.
After "World Enough and Time" explored their origin and the horror of the early Cyber-Conversion process, they're Out of Focus in "The Doctor Falls" in favour of the Doctor's relationship with the two Masters, with their main effect once more being someone close to the Doctor - this time Bill - becoming a Cyberman herself.
Likewise, they go from a convincing threat to Big Bad Wannabe status in "The Timeless Children" as soon as the Master arrives, with his killing Ashad opening his own scheme with the Cyber-Masters.
Still the comic supremacy of the Cybermen did at least have them convert and kill the Master in a timeline that was erased. Silver Nemesis is the least offensive when it comes to undermining them. I actually on my recent rewatch quite enjoyed it. It's such a creative story in some respects, throwing in witches, Nazis, Cybermen etc. I'm even doing my own story inspired by it about a witch who fights robot men. However yeah the Cybermen in certain parts are lame asses, like being killed by a sling shot and the hilarious bit where the Doctor kills them with the fire rockets and they are also a bit out of character too, being quite touchy and emotional when the Nazis talk about their weaknesses "YOU INSULT US!", that said though they do come out on top against the other villains at least. The bit where they slaughter Nazis is probably the most badass Cyberman fight in the entire series. Completely agree about Silver Nemesis. A lot of people just write it off as a Remembrance clone, but it's actually got a lot of interesting stuff in it. You've got black magic, the English countryside, castles, crypts, Nazis, Cybermen... pretty much a check list of things I'm very interested in. |
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