Post by burrunjor on Jan 1, 2024 19:06:28 GMT
Looking back at 2023 I think my biggest regret, re franchises I like being f*cked was Michael Keaton's botched return as the Caped Crusader.
Now this was something I was hugely looking forward to since 2020 when it was first announced that he would be in The Flash. However it was later revealed over the course of 2021 and 2022 that Keaton was going to be in an entire series of films, a whole shared universe. Sadly these plans all came tumbling down in 2022 for various reasons, but it was last year that we finally got at least one of the new films Keaton had made released, The Flash. Believe it or not Keaton played Batman more times in the 2020s than ever before, 3 films in total, but we'll only see one of his 21st century performances.
Sadly The Flash of 2023 was a miserable failure across the board and has kind of tainted the legacy of Keaton's Batman in a way. From a real world perspective it's a shame his last movie as his greatest role was a dud with the public. Meanwhile from an in universe perspective, Keaton's Batman is killed by a third rate villain that Supes beat as a rookie and his world has been destroyed, making his life's work in the first two movies pointless.
Having watched the Flash back over the holidays, it's not a bad film. It is reasonably enjoyable, but it definitely doesn't do Keaton justice, not just in terms of what they do to him, but he is really a supporting character in someone else's story. As many have pointed out that's not how anyone wanted to see him back. However in all fairness to the movie, that fault can really be laid at the feet of James Gunn. The Flash was never meant to represent Keaton's full comeback. It was simply designed to set up his new series of films, that would have fully explored his character to much greater detail. As it is however, the Flash is now like the first chapter that's been torn out of a book, or a tv pilot that never went anywhere.
Basically this was the plan.
The DCEU had been given a shot in the arm after ZS' Justice League, but Affleck still didn't want to come back, and so they decided to recast Batman.
The Flash was going to do this as well as shake things up. In The Flash it is revealed that in the DC multiverse, there are an infinite number of universes that exist side by side, in perfect balance. However if you change the history of a universe, you change its direction, which can lead to it colliding with another reality. Now most of the time these collisions are nothing (indeed in real life there are some scientists who believe our universe has collided with others leaving background radiation we can detect.) However if it's a huge change that alters the entire course of the universe, then the collision can be extreme, leading to matter and even time itself being exchanged (as the time vortex is still a physical presence.) These extreme collisions can result in people, events and areas all being swapped between universes, before they untangle. Now Barry going back and saving his mother would have been a huge change as it would have prevented him from becoming The Flash, and given he stops Darkseid from destroying the universe, then yeah that would have knocked his universe off its path and led to it colliding with the Keatonverse, resulting in time being exchanged between both and Keaton's Batman with the same history now existing in Barry's reality and Affleck going into Keatons. (Along with other heroes like Superman, etc.)
The events of the Flash would have taken place after this where back in the present, Barry, Keaton and Supergirl have to stop Zod from invading the earth like he did in the DCEU, but fail for various reasons. They don't have the time to prepare against him like Superman did, or have the aid of the military like he did, Supergirl has only just got her powers, Batman quit crime fighting years ago and was rusty. (With his reason for quitting being that he killed a criminal in front of his son, showing he'd carried down a very dark path after Batman Returns.)
After their defeat Barry goes back and undoes his change to stop the universes from colliding. However sadly Barry still wouldn't have completely untangled the universes, as his very presence in the past was still a change. He would have accepted this with the moral of the story being that you can never get it how you want, and that once it is changed you can never get it back to how it was. Barry would then return to the present and discover that Keaton was still Batman in his reality, and Supergirl still existed, but Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman etc all still exist and together they had stopped Zod. We also would have seen that Affleck was trapped in another reality still somehow being aware of what happened, leaving the door open for him to return. (Reportedly there were talks for the Batfleck movie to be made and set in the other universe that would have seen him go up against Deadshot. This came after making the Flash as Affleck had such a good time making it he was open to reprising the role again.)
Meanwhile with Keaton as the DCEU Batman, he was going to take on a similar role to Nick Fury i the films going forward, as the gruff mentor to other superheroes who recruited and led them. There were plans for him to cameo in many movies going forward but it is known that the following films were planned to happen after The Flash.
Batgirl, that would have seen Keaton train a new crime fighter in Gotham as he was spending more time with the Justice League and together they would have fought Firefly played by Brendan Fraser. This movie was more or less completed.
Third Keaton movie, that would have focused on him and brought back Michelle Pfieffer and revealed more about their relationship and history since Batman Returns. This was going to follow up on the backstory from The Flash, that Batman quit crime fighting because he killed a criminal in front of his child and was so horrified he vowed to never be Batman again. Apparently this child grown up would have been the villain of the film, along with possibly another classic villain like Scarecrow or Clayface, with Catwoman helping Keaton out. This would have returned to the Burton aesthetic as would Batgirl.
Man of Steel 2, which would have had Cavill back as Superman alongside Sasha Caille as Supergirl taking on Brainiac, and again exploring their relationship in the new timeline and history which Brainiac would be linked with. (Originally the plan was to replace Superman with Supergirl, but thankfully they abandoned that and there was an ending filmed of The Flash with Keaton, Cavill and Gadot and Supergirl all meeting Barry in the new timeline.)
Wonder Woman 3 that would have wrapped up her story.
Aquaman 2, which would have featured Keaton prominently and had him team up with Aquaman to help save the day. Again this scene was filmed. However when it looked like Aquaman 2 might be released before The Flash, an alternate scene with Affleck was filmed, but ultimately they decided to use the Keaton scene again after it looked like The Flash was going to go ahead. Basically depending on the situation with Ezra, they had two Batmen on stand by.
Following this there would have been Justice League 2, which would have seen the League take out Darkseid, whose plan would have threatened the multiverse. Affleck and possibly other old versions of heroes would have cameod, and this would have brought the DCEU to a close.
However all of these plans came crashing down when Warner Bros changed hands behind the scenes. First off Batgirl was axed despite almost being completed. Then James Gunn took over and he decided to completely reboot it and start his own ego trip of a DC universe. (He also famously despised Michael Keaton's Batman too, and there are many who think he wasn't too keen on Henry's Superman either.)
Michael Keaton, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, and Sasha Calle were all fired, all of their sequels obviously cancelled, and Keaton's scene from Aquaman 2 was cut and the entire movie underwent extensive reshoots to get rid of any references to Batman. The Flash only wasn't cancelled because it was completed and had tested very well with audiences. (Likely because they thought the CGI was unfinished and because they thought it was leading in to something.)
Worse than all that however, The Flash also now had to be changed. Gunn didn't want an ending that teased more Keaton and his Justice League, so in the new timeline Barry discovers that George Clooney has taken Ben Affleck's place.
This f*cked the movie. Granted it was probably never going to be a huge hit because of Ezra Miller. For the record he was acquitted of the grooming charges (though we all know the justice system isn't perfect.) Still he was guilty of hitting and strangling people when he was drunk and off his head as it was caught on camera, so yeah understandably people wanted to boycott the film for that reason.
It's only hope was Keaton, but the problem is that it now had to be the sole comeback for Keaton which it obviously was never intended to be, and with Gunn's changes, Keaton was left to die and failed to save his world, also the reasons for him quitting crime fighting were cut, giving him even less screen time and motivation and any real reason for it to be his Batman. All of this helped drive the one audience it had of 90s babies away and left Keaton's comeback being ONE film that wasn't about him and left him dead in another universe. It also managed to kind of f*ck the DCEU as now Affleck is also lost, and we have 0 idea what else has been changed and indeed we don't even know if Barry has made it back to his universe. (Also DCEU fans were left bitter at Cavill's scenes being cut from what was his final performance as Superman.)
Overall I would have much rather they had gone ahead with their original plan than James Gunn's DC slate. Leaving aside the fact that Gunn's slate looks absolutely terrible. An overcrowded Superman film, some obscure characters nobody gives a shit about, a Batman story based on the works of Grant Morrison, and having to go through the origins of all these characters again. Oh and on top of all that the DC universe in other media is now all being formed to the vision of one man and his clique. Yeah that worked out well for DW didn't it. Oh joy! Meanwhile the planned Keatonverse, sounds like it would have been really cool, and an OAP Batman is a great idea as it is different to how we've seen the character portrayed on screen before , whilst it does have a history in the comics and other media, with stories like the Huntress and Batman Beyond all waiting to be adapted.
It's also f*cking insane that Keaton has starred in 3 Batman movies and we'll only ever see, a cut down version of one of them!
Honestly this to me is one of the best what if's. I really would have loved to have seen the Keatonverse, but I will still give Gunn's version a chance as I'm not petty. Still it will have to be really f*cking great to justify f*cking up two generations of DC films, Keaton and the DCEU and junking two other Keaton performances.
Now this was something I was hugely looking forward to since 2020 when it was first announced that he would be in The Flash. However it was later revealed over the course of 2021 and 2022 that Keaton was going to be in an entire series of films, a whole shared universe. Sadly these plans all came tumbling down in 2022 for various reasons, but it was last year that we finally got at least one of the new films Keaton had made released, The Flash. Believe it or not Keaton played Batman more times in the 2020s than ever before, 3 films in total, but we'll only see one of his 21st century performances.
Sadly The Flash of 2023 was a miserable failure across the board and has kind of tainted the legacy of Keaton's Batman in a way. From a real world perspective it's a shame his last movie as his greatest role was a dud with the public. Meanwhile from an in universe perspective, Keaton's Batman is killed by a third rate villain that Supes beat as a rookie and his world has been destroyed, making his life's work in the first two movies pointless.
Having watched the Flash back over the holidays, it's not a bad film. It is reasonably enjoyable, but it definitely doesn't do Keaton justice, not just in terms of what they do to him, but he is really a supporting character in someone else's story. As many have pointed out that's not how anyone wanted to see him back. However in all fairness to the movie, that fault can really be laid at the feet of James Gunn. The Flash was never meant to represent Keaton's full comeback. It was simply designed to set up his new series of films, that would have fully explored his character to much greater detail. As it is however, the Flash is now like the first chapter that's been torn out of a book, or a tv pilot that never went anywhere.
Basically this was the plan.
The DCEU had been given a shot in the arm after ZS' Justice League, but Affleck still didn't want to come back, and so they decided to recast Batman.
The Flash was going to do this as well as shake things up. In The Flash it is revealed that in the DC multiverse, there are an infinite number of universes that exist side by side, in perfect balance. However if you change the history of a universe, you change its direction, which can lead to it colliding with another reality. Now most of the time these collisions are nothing (indeed in real life there are some scientists who believe our universe has collided with others leaving background radiation we can detect.) However if it's a huge change that alters the entire course of the universe, then the collision can be extreme, leading to matter and even time itself being exchanged (as the time vortex is still a physical presence.) These extreme collisions can result in people, events and areas all being swapped between universes, before they untangle. Now Barry going back and saving his mother would have been a huge change as it would have prevented him from becoming The Flash, and given he stops Darkseid from destroying the universe, then yeah that would have knocked his universe off its path and led to it colliding with the Keatonverse, resulting in time being exchanged between both and Keaton's Batman with the same history now existing in Barry's reality and Affleck going into Keatons. (Along with other heroes like Superman, etc.)
The events of the Flash would have taken place after this where back in the present, Barry, Keaton and Supergirl have to stop Zod from invading the earth like he did in the DCEU, but fail for various reasons. They don't have the time to prepare against him like Superman did, or have the aid of the military like he did, Supergirl has only just got her powers, Batman quit crime fighting years ago and was rusty. (With his reason for quitting being that he killed a criminal in front of his son, showing he'd carried down a very dark path after Batman Returns.)
After their defeat Barry goes back and undoes his change to stop the universes from colliding. However sadly Barry still wouldn't have completely untangled the universes, as his very presence in the past was still a change. He would have accepted this with the moral of the story being that you can never get it how you want, and that once it is changed you can never get it back to how it was. Barry would then return to the present and discover that Keaton was still Batman in his reality, and Supergirl still existed, but Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman etc all still exist and together they had stopped Zod. We also would have seen that Affleck was trapped in another reality still somehow being aware of what happened, leaving the door open for him to return. (Reportedly there were talks for the Batfleck movie to be made and set in the other universe that would have seen him go up against Deadshot. This came after making the Flash as Affleck had such a good time making it he was open to reprising the role again.)
Meanwhile with Keaton as the DCEU Batman, he was going to take on a similar role to Nick Fury i the films going forward, as the gruff mentor to other superheroes who recruited and led them. There were plans for him to cameo in many movies going forward but it is known that the following films were planned to happen after The Flash.
Batgirl, that would have seen Keaton train a new crime fighter in Gotham as he was spending more time with the Justice League and together they would have fought Firefly played by Brendan Fraser. This movie was more or less completed.
Third Keaton movie, that would have focused on him and brought back Michelle Pfieffer and revealed more about their relationship and history since Batman Returns. This was going to follow up on the backstory from The Flash, that Batman quit crime fighting because he killed a criminal in front of his child and was so horrified he vowed to never be Batman again. Apparently this child grown up would have been the villain of the film, along with possibly another classic villain like Scarecrow or Clayface, with Catwoman helping Keaton out. This would have returned to the Burton aesthetic as would Batgirl.
Man of Steel 2, which would have had Cavill back as Superman alongside Sasha Caille as Supergirl taking on Brainiac, and again exploring their relationship in the new timeline and history which Brainiac would be linked with. (Originally the plan was to replace Superman with Supergirl, but thankfully they abandoned that and there was an ending filmed of The Flash with Keaton, Cavill and Gadot and Supergirl all meeting Barry in the new timeline.)
Wonder Woman 3 that would have wrapped up her story.
Aquaman 2, which would have featured Keaton prominently and had him team up with Aquaman to help save the day. Again this scene was filmed. However when it looked like Aquaman 2 might be released before The Flash, an alternate scene with Affleck was filmed, but ultimately they decided to use the Keaton scene again after it looked like The Flash was going to go ahead. Basically depending on the situation with Ezra, they had two Batmen on stand by.
Following this there would have been Justice League 2, which would have seen the League take out Darkseid, whose plan would have threatened the multiverse. Affleck and possibly other old versions of heroes would have cameod, and this would have brought the DCEU to a close.
However all of these plans came crashing down when Warner Bros changed hands behind the scenes. First off Batgirl was axed despite almost being completed. Then James Gunn took over and he decided to completely reboot it and start his own ego trip of a DC universe. (He also famously despised Michael Keaton's Batman too, and there are many who think he wasn't too keen on Henry's Superman either.)
Michael Keaton, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, and Sasha Calle were all fired, all of their sequels obviously cancelled, and Keaton's scene from Aquaman 2 was cut and the entire movie underwent extensive reshoots to get rid of any references to Batman. The Flash only wasn't cancelled because it was completed and had tested very well with audiences. (Likely because they thought the CGI was unfinished and because they thought it was leading in to something.)
Worse than all that however, The Flash also now had to be changed. Gunn didn't want an ending that teased more Keaton and his Justice League, so in the new timeline Barry discovers that George Clooney has taken Ben Affleck's place.
This f*cked the movie. Granted it was probably never going to be a huge hit because of Ezra Miller. For the record he was acquitted of the grooming charges (though we all know the justice system isn't perfect.) Still he was guilty of hitting and strangling people when he was drunk and off his head as it was caught on camera, so yeah understandably people wanted to boycott the film for that reason.
It's only hope was Keaton, but the problem is that it now had to be the sole comeback for Keaton which it obviously was never intended to be, and with Gunn's changes, Keaton was left to die and failed to save his world, also the reasons for him quitting crime fighting were cut, giving him even less screen time and motivation and any real reason for it to be his Batman. All of this helped drive the one audience it had of 90s babies away and left Keaton's comeback being ONE film that wasn't about him and left him dead in another universe. It also managed to kind of f*ck the DCEU as now Affleck is also lost, and we have 0 idea what else has been changed and indeed we don't even know if Barry has made it back to his universe. (Also DCEU fans were left bitter at Cavill's scenes being cut from what was his final performance as Superman.)
Overall I would have much rather they had gone ahead with their original plan than James Gunn's DC slate. Leaving aside the fact that Gunn's slate looks absolutely terrible. An overcrowded Superman film, some obscure characters nobody gives a shit about, a Batman story based on the works of Grant Morrison, and having to go through the origins of all these characters again. Oh and on top of all that the DC universe in other media is now all being formed to the vision of one man and his clique. Yeah that worked out well for DW didn't it. Oh joy! Meanwhile the planned Keatonverse, sounds like it would have been really cool, and an OAP Batman is a great idea as it is different to how we've seen the character portrayed on screen before , whilst it does have a history in the comics and other media, with stories like the Huntress and Batman Beyond all waiting to be adapted.
It's also f*cking insane that Keaton has starred in 3 Batman movies and we'll only ever see, a cut down version of one of them!
Honestly this to me is one of the best what if's. I really would have loved to have seen the Keatonverse, but I will still give Gunn's version a chance as I'm not petty. Still it will have to be really f*cking great to justify f*cking up two generations of DC films, Keaton and the DCEU and junking two other Keaton performances.
