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Post by UncleDeadly on Nov 18, 2023 19:00:25 GMT
I saw that you had a Davros avatar for a second. Shame it’s gone! Couldn't be arsed with it tbh. (Although I had thought about reminding people that for all Davies self proclaimed progressive qualities that it was actually Dapol who came up with the idea of a two armed Davros first.) View AttachmentAt least they had the good sense to chop it off. Good thing they didn't make a Barrowman figure, isn't it..? |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Nov 18, 2023 19:04:03 GMT
“Fans you were, and fans you remain! But the terrible penalty of being erased from Doctor Who has been set aside, on the single condition that you identify the image or the original appearance of the character called Davros!” “I’M DAVROS!”. *Crowd chants in unison* |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 18, 2023 19:06:15 GMT
Couldn't be arsed with it tbh. (Although I had thought about reminding people that for all Davies self proclaimed progressive qualities that it was actually Dapol who came up with the idea of a two armed Davros first.) View AttachmentAt least they had the good sense to chop it off. Good thing they didn't make a Barrowman figure, isn't it..? They were 90s DW toys, when he was only known for Live and Kicking and Shark Attack 3 Megalodon. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Nov 18, 2023 19:07:51 GMT
“Fans you were, and fans you remain! But the terrible penalty of being erased from Doctor Who has been set aside, on the single condition that you identify the image or the original appearance of the character called Davros!” “I’M DAVROS!”. *Crowd chants in unison* "I'M ALFIE NOAKES..!!" |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Nov 18, 2023 19:13:13 GMT
At least they had the good sense to chop it off. Good thing they didn't make a Barrowman figure, isn't it..? They were 90s DW toys, when he was only known for Live and Kicking and Shark Attack 3 Megalodon. This is a hypothetical Barrowman. Anyway, the Dapol line was launched in 1987. Based on Time and the f*cking Rani...  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2023 19:16:16 GMT
They were 90s DW toys, when he was only known for Live and Kicking and Shark Attack 3 Megalodon. This is a hypothetical Barrowman. Anyway, the Dapol line was launched in 1987. Based on Time and the f*cking Rani... Time and the f*cking Rani indeed. What a great story that was. The Rani's plan to eradicate Mrs Malaprop from existence still has me shaking uncontrollably  |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Nov 18, 2023 19:17:23 GMT
Yeah same here I'm not going to bother as I'm still about justice for the Master LOL. He got trashed first and nobody cared! I mean for the record I vastly prefer the Daleks and Davros. They are top tier villains in possibly all of fiction, but still remember let's not let other icons be trashed. To be fair, the reason we’ve opted for Davros profile pictures is because the *image* of the character has been deemed problematic by those in charge. The original Master’s image hasn’t, as badly treated as he undeniably was. |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 18, 2023 19:27:04 GMT
Of course the real question here is if the 60th goes down like the new and improved Davros, do you think this will destroy Davies legacy? As I said the idea of New Who being a success overall is on very shaky ground.
It had 7 years of mainstream popularity. Not bad by any stretch, more than say Xena, Buffy, Star Trek other big genre shows etc.
However it doesn't have to compete with them. It has to compete with Classic Who that we are told it is even by classic who fans, the mainstream alternative to? Classic Who had about 17 years overall of mainstream popularity (barring a slight drop in Troughton's last year.) Meanwhile New Who has also had bigger drops and failures than classic who ever did.
It has only produced 4 full series in 10 years. That's about the same as Trial of a Time Lord to Paul McGann, that produced 3 full seasons in that amount of time and a few specials like Dimensions in Time. (Difference being it was officially cancelled during most of that time.)
It's viewers have crashed almost every year since 2013.
It has the lowest viewers at certain points.
Meanwhile all the ways in which it was more successful are kind of shaky too.
It isn't actually the most popular period of viewers. Williams, Hinchcliff and Letts and Lambert and believe it or not JNT at the beginning all had periods of higher viewers, or viewers going up ever year for longer periods in the UK.
It isn't the most popular abroad either. Tom got over 9 million in America. New Who at its most popular got barely over 2 million in America, almost five times less, and the American DW fan club was the biggest in the world in the 80s. Tom Baker is also still the most recognized around the globe.
Most hilariously even the whole "we made DW fandom diverse and not just white men." Classic Who beat you to it with a massive gay fanbase, family audiences of men and women, and 80 percent female fans in America in the 80s.
All new who has is that it helped introduce it to young people in the 21st century, though even then I'm proof that young people also found it via the videos too, but still okay more people found it that way as it was current and on. Still you can't live off of that forever, as well eventually that generation ages out. At one point Pertwee fans were the young punks of fandom that the show won round. Eventually you just become another old era, of many that may not reflect the current zeitgeist anymore regardless of how successful you were then and the old fans have to be sacrificed for the new ones.
It did win more awards, but who cares about that? Awards are worthless and they are often just handed out by friends of the producers.
It got to a higher charting position with Journey's End getting to number 1.
That however....... is it! Bare in mind it also got about 20 times the hype the original got. Still that's one area where it is legitmately more popular, but is that enough to sustain Russell's overhyped reputation? I'd say no.
I think there could be a lot of looking back at his first era.
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 18, 2023 19:33:36 GMT
Yeah same here I'm not going to bother as I'm still about justice for the Master LOL. He got trashed first and nobody cared! I mean for the record I vastly prefer the Daleks and Davros. They are top tier villains in possibly all of fiction, but still remember let's not let other icons be trashed. To be fair, the reason we’ve opted for Davros profile pictures is because the *image* of the character has been deemed problematic by those in charge. The original Master’s image hasn’t, as badly treated as he undeniably was. They did change his past image though in other ways. They went back and rewrote factual articles on numerous websites, including the BBC site saying that the Delgado Master wanted to shag Pertwee. There was one that said him strapping Pertwee to the chair in Mind of Evil is like a bondage scene. Also Big Finish actually had the burned Master be jealous of River Song in their stories. Again both were the same thing to me. A phony liberal like RTD or the Fitzroy in general want to look progressive so they change a well established icon's history to be more diverse. Davros can walk, the Master is the Doctors gay lover. In both cases it destroys their identities to the point where you might as well not bring them back. However like I said one got the backlash it deserved because RTD was such an idiot he tried to speak for minorities who were quick to do a "THIS MAN DOES NOT REPRESENT US" the other meanwhile was presented as just a "are you saying a woman can't do this?" Which I think made a lot of fans back off. Still don't mean to derail it to the Master LOL, as Davros has been f*cked, but again this is what happens when you have a no canon policy. |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Nov 18, 2023 20:07:21 GMT
Couldn't be arsed with it tbh. NuWho and it's cack handed decisions lost relevance with me ages ago. For what it’s worth, this is less to do with me finding it relevant (I find it bloody hilarious if anything) and more to do with having a little fun.  |
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Post by rushy on Nov 18, 2023 20:17:19 GMT
Of course the real question here is if the 60th goes down like the new and improved Davros, do you think this will destroy Davies legacy? I don't think so. Even if it gets cancelled on his watch, there's nothing that can take away Doctor Who's place in pop culture history. Even with New Who. |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Nov 18, 2023 22:17:48 GMT
That's just a rumour. And Tom had an alibi... |
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Post by Bernard Marx on Nov 17, 2024 12:12:02 GMT
Given that Davrosgate is now (almost) a year old, I thought I'd bump this thread up.
My interest in the 60th (and Doctor Who as a whole) started to wane altogether as November progressed (although I'd predicted two years earlier that it wouldn't be the rousing success everyone said). However, my sheer disbelief at Davies' retcon saw me return and take the piss at record levels. In that sense, it's given me quite a few laughs.
I honestly hope Davies fucks up as hilariously as this again. Still, I doubt this thing will last beyond its second series.
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Post by iank on Nov 17, 2024 12:35:59 GMT
God I hope not.
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 17, 2024 13:13:16 GMT
Given that Davrosgate is now (almost) a year old, I thought I'd bump this thread up. My interest in the 60th (and Doctor Who as a whole) started to wane altogether as November progressed (although I'd predicted two years earlier that it wouldn't be the rousing success everyone said). However, my sheer disbelief at Davies' retcon saw me return and take the piss at record levels. In that sense, it's given me quite a few laughs. I honestly hope Davies f ucks up as hilariously as this again. Still, I doubt this thing will last beyond its second series. It most likely will not last beyond series 2. I could be wrong as New Who truly is the beast that won't f*cking die. It's makers are too well connected, and it's survived being a continued failure for the past ten years since Capaldi's first season. I remember a guy I knew who was a former producer saying that if any other show had lost the viewers that Capaldi did from his first to second season it would have been axed right away. To think it would drop even more for his next season after that, and barring Jodie's first few episodes it's dropped every single year since, yet it still keeps getting renewed? Still that said, consider the following. Series 3 has still not been commissioned. According to a guy I know online Dan Hadley who is a big RTD era fan and not biased, but has some insider info, series 2 has been postponed until July, or August. The death slot for any show. Remember Primeval went though exactly the same thing. I will say it is quite funny as Rob and Rani are in the opposite position now. Primeval was axed and then given a reprieve with two new seasons made at once and a spin off show, all of which convinced fans that it was in a healthy state. However it sadly wasn't, as the hiatus had hurt it and after its first series bombed, the second was quietly shoved away in the middle of the summer to die, and the spin off failed to generate any interest as it was part of a dead brand. Rani of course was gloating, but now the same thing has happened to DW from the looks of things. (Though Rob can take solace in the fact that Primeval series 4 didn't tank anywhere near as badly as DW series 1 in terms of viewers and was critically well received too.) Also I might add that regardless it's all but confirmed that there will be another hiatus between series 2 and 3, which again can kill the momentum for healthy shows like Primeval and classic who between seasons 22 and 23, so lord knows what it would do if we did get a series 3? Furthermore popular culture has also moved on. Shared universes are sadly no longer a big deal, with the death of the Arroweverse, the DCEU, the Star Wars franchise burning out miserably and the MCU is on its last legs. James Gunn may be able to pull it out of the fire with the DCU, but probably not. At the very least the DCU will never reach the heights of popularity that the MCU did. The election of the Donald has also signalled that people are fed up with celebs and entertainment talking down to them politically. Even George Clooney, one of the worst virtue signalling celebs is taking a step back from politics. DW meanwhile is too wrapped up in that 2016-2024 era to move on like even Clooney can. It's old fanbase of sci fi fans and mainstream normal people have long since departed and it's fanbase is 99.9 percent aging millennial or psychotic Gen Z activists who will go insane if they dare try to deviate from that lecturing people model. "COWARDICE, COWARDICE, SELLING OUT TO MAGA WHITE NATIONALIST, RAPE APOLOGIST, TRANSPHOBIC SHITSTAINS!" Finally the BBC can't make it on their own and Disney themselves are having serious problems. They have released a shit ton of flops, even the MCU has mostly been a failure for them the past few years. On top of that they are caught up in quite a few lawsuits. First off Scar Jo's lawsuit took a lot out of them, whilst Peter Cushing's estate is suing them for using his image without their permission apparently in Star Wars for that ghoulish recreation of the great man.. Then there's Gina's lawsuit that will go to discovery and expose a lot of dodgy, illegal shit they've been doing. You might think I'm biased and I am for Gina LOL, but consider that Disney have tried three times even after the Judge overruled them to get her case dismissed, because they were that scared of it going to discovery. Here is info on their latest attempt to get it thrown out that was crushed. (And the judge was reportedly pissed off that they kept trying.)  "After the Judge DENIED Disneys request to DISMISS my case, Disney requested permission to immediately appeal that decision to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and delay all discovery while that appeal takes place.Yesterday, October 16th, 2024 we learned that the Judge DENIED Disney’s unusual request.
I am obviously very pleased with the opportunity to keep moving forward with the judicial process and into discovery.
While I wish this was not necessary as it is not my desire to be in this battle in court. I will not shrink away from it because it is hard or uncomfortable."They are clearly very worried about this case, which again is just one of many, and both this and Scar Jo's cases against them may very well inspire other actors who've been f*cked over by them to come forward. Now sadly in spite of that Disney is such a f*cking monster there is no way it can ever go bankrupt, but still it certainly will put a dent in their armor for a while. I guess Disney are like Wolfram and Hart from Angel, where he knows he can never destroy them, but he can make their lives miserable for a short time and that's worth it LOL. With that in mind, will they really want to invest all this money in a dying brand, that for many is the symbol of the very thing that is getting them sued, boycotted etc? Honestly I don't see how on top of now over ten years of failure the show can go on. You can only live off of "hey for a few years in the 00s, we were keewwwwwl and Tennant appeared on Comic Relief with a guitar and hipster millennial fans who were the cool young crowd in America liked us for a bit in the early 2010s" for so long. |
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