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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2023 12:41:20 GMT
Both are considered the two best writers for the show, but who wrote the best scripts?
Robert Holmes. Holmes. Bob Holmes. Holmesy.
Sorry, there's no contest. Holmes delivered better dialogue, characters, ideas and storylines. Spearhead, Time Warrior, Deadly Assassin, Talons and Caves are some of the greatest television scripts. The fact that there was only one Holmes script in the 2023 DWM poll as opposed to the usual three says an awful lot about the fandom's declining taste.
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Post by UncleDeadly on Nov 10, 2023 17:34:54 GMT
Jesus or Hitler? Place yer bets now, lads..!
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Post by iank on Nov 10, 2023 21:28:35 GMT
It's a tough one.
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Post by iank on Nov 10, 2023 21:29:11 GMT
Both are considered the two best writers for the show, but who wrote the best scripts? Robert Holmes. Holmes. Bob Holmes. Holmesy. Sorry, there's no contest. Holmes delivered better dialogue, characters, ideas and storylines. Spearhead, Time Warrior, Deadly Assassin, Talons and Caves are some of the greatest television scripts. The fact that there was only one Holmes script in the 2023 DWM poll as opposed to the usual three says an awful lot about the fandom's declining taste. I think it says more that most of them are about 12 now. |
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Post by zarius on Nov 12, 2023 9:47:33 GMT
Holmes, even his stinkers have quality.
Moffat has written fine stories that I've still thoroughly enjoyed, but Holmes wrote the book on Doctor Who, where as Moffat is the sort of lad who would scribble tiny dicks in it.
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 13, 2023 14:24:17 GMT
LOL not really much of a contest here.
Steven Moffat has done a lot of exceptional work and cast two of the best actors in the role, so I don't want to turn it into a let's take the worst of Moffat and put it against the best of Holmes, which is always tempting whenever your favourites are put up against someone else LOL.
Still I think Bob Holmes just had an effortless quality to his work. Take the Time Warrior. That was a story his heart wasn't in, that he was forced to do about a subject he hated, yet it's still amazing. It still has incredible world building, great characters, plenty of action and some absolutely hilarious bits of dialogue. It's the type of story that most people would be grateful to have the skill to write, and Holmes basically just wrote it begrudgingly on a Saturday afternoon.
Whilst I do think Holmes could be a terrible snob about things, and I don't like the way the fandom builds him up into being a messiah who was always right (you shouldn't do that for anyone, also even then half the time they lie and make out that he supported things like gender bending time lords and DW has no canon when he never did.)
Ultimately his reputation is pretty much deserved. I also agree that he should be seen as one of the great tv writers of the 20th century. To be honest though I think part of why he isn't is more because sadly he never had a show of his own creation. It's easy for people to overlook writers who only wrote classic episodes of other people's shows. He and Philip Hinchcliff did come up with an idea for a sci fi series together that sounds like it would have been really good, and I believe he came up with an idea for another series, but again sadly both were never picked up.
If they had then I think Holmes would have got the credit he is due. I'd like to think that there is an alternate universe somewhere where Holmes idea for a series was made and it launched his career into the stratosphere. Who knows maybe in that reality he went on to create other great series, lived a lot longer than he did in this shitty universe and went on to write the most outrageous, creative and witty episodes of shows like the X-Files, Buffy, Angel and Xena into the 90s/00s too.
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Post by cyberhat on Nov 13, 2023 19:16:36 GMT
I love the way Robert Holmes got embarrassed about liking the show, in case his non-existent cool mates took the piss out him. Also the way fans made out he was the reincarnation of Marcel Proust cause he jumped over the incredibly low bar of outdoing a narcissistic Welsh windbag. Having previously shat on everything written by the show before him before going on to writing Chalk. His later writing that all sounds like a woodwork teacher at a school disco should come in for particular praise.
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Post by Bernard Marx on Dec 10, 2023 17:31:59 GMT
I love the way Robert Holmes got embarrassed about liking the show, in case his non-existent cool mates took the piss out him. Also the way fans made out he was the reincarnation of Marcel Proust cause he jumped over the incredibly low bar of outdoing a narcissistic Welsh windbag. Having previously shat on everything written by the show before him before going on to writing Chalk. His later writing that all sounds like a woodwork teacher at a school disco should come in for particular praise. How Davies, Moffat and Chibnall see themselves: What they more closely resemble: |
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