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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 11:40:30 GMT
Talons for me though I love Robots too.
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Post by Monster X on Oct 12, 2023 14:32:49 GMT
"Some slavering gangrenous vampire comes out of a sewer and stalks this city at night...".
I'm very fond of all the stories listed (even The Android Invasion) - the Hinchcliffe years were definitely Who's Golden Age. However, The Talons Of Weng Chiang is my favourite - it's a bloody masterpiece.
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 16:17:43 GMT
I just don't get all the hype for Talons? It's not bad, but it's so average and yes does contain a lot of dodgy shit that has aged appallingly.
Why people are more quick to turn on Genesis of the Daleks, Morbius, or Pyramids of Mars than that baffles me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 16:25:47 GMT
I just don't get all the hype for Talons? It's not bad, but it's so average and yes does contain a lot of dodgy shit that has aged appallingly. Why people are more quick to turn on Genesis of the Daleks, Morbius, or Pyramids of Mars than that baffles me. Brilliant sets, expensive feel, high quality script, excellent dialogue, great sense of atmosphere, extensive location filming, memorable characters and Tom Baker at his best. Morbius is cheap B-movie shlock in comparison. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 16:29:46 GMT
If people are going to go after the racism in Talons then they should also point out the fact that a white man plays an egyptian character in Pyramids.
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 17:29:09 GMT
I just don't get all the hype for Talons? It's not bad, but it's so average and yes does contain a lot of dodgy shit that has aged appallingly. Why people are more quick to turn on Genesis of the Daleks, Morbius, or Pyramids of Mars than that baffles me. Brilliant sets, expensive feel, high quality script, excellent dialogue, great sense of atmosphere, extensive location filming, memorable characters and Tom Baker at his best. Morbius is cheap B-movie shlock in comparison. Yes but it is also has excessive padding, racist stereotypes, a man in yellow face, one of the worst monsters via the giant rat in the history of the show that has no purpose, a fairly bland and unoriginal story that Bob Holmes had rehashed about 5 times by that point (4 in the same season.) Again it manages to rise above these problems, but it's still not on the level of say Inferno or Genesis where honestly they are flawless in terms of pacing, characterisation, plot, acting, production values, except maybe the odd effect like the giant clam and the primords fangs, neither of which are as intrusive as the giant rat. Yet Talons is frequently rated above both stories for some reason? Meanwhile Morbius I'd say is about even with Talons actually. Both are pastiches of old horror movies, but well done pastiches that are dripping with affection and bring something new to the ideas even just through the more overt sci fi. Both have strong performances from the villains and the guest acting. (Except maybe Ohica, though other than her mad eye acting she is fine and to be fair as much as I like Michael Spice he does overdo it as Greel a few times. "Let the Talons of Weng Chiang rip your fleeeeaaaaaaaaasssssssssshhhh." ) Morbius meanwhile also had brilliant sets for the planet and the castle, and the costume for Morbius is one of the best they ever did, whilst Morbius himself is to me at least a more interesting villain, as the state he is left in is absolutely nightmarish you almost pity him. Talons meanwhile, rat aside is probably better made than Morbius. The direction is certainly more atmospheric, where as Morbius has some appalling bits of direction like the girl who waits for 20 mins for Morbius to catch up to her and then goes limp and doesn't even try to defend herself when he does LOL. They definitely should have done another take on that one. Morbius also has far worse plot holes with the Doctor being an absolute arse in it and inexplicably leaving Solon alone in a room, expecting him to dismantle his life's work, or telling him he intends to return Morbius' brain to the Time Lords when his minion is standing behind him with a gun! Still at the same time Morbius is better paced, has more memorable creature effects, better world building, though it does use the standard Bob Holmes plot of a once powerful monster trying to regain its power through a minion it adds more to it than Greel who is basically just the Master again (in fact he was written to be, with it only being a last minute rewrite that stopped that from happening.) Overall both about equal I'd say. Hinchcliff classics to be sure, but IMO should not be in the top ten, though it's all just taste at the end of the day. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 17:33:34 GMT
Both Morbius and Talons are fantastic, atmospheric pieces.
It's Robots that's overrated as hell. Boucher's work on Doctor Who is incredibly weak compared to his work on Blake's 7
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Post by Monster X on Oct 12, 2023 19:02:04 GMT
Not that I have any great fondness for the man, his work or his opinions but in this case he's absolutely right:
"Take The Talons of Weng-Chiang, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - Russell T Davies.
Still, that rat's a bit rubbish isn't it? Broadcast a couple of months before Talons, The New Avengers episode 'Gnaws' also featured a giant rat in the London sewers, yet 'Gnaws' wasn't half as much fun as Talons, even if their giant rat wasn't quite as laughable.
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 12, 2023 21:36:37 GMT
Not that I have any great fondness for the man, his work or his opinions but in this case he's absolutely right: "Take The Talons of Weng-Chiang, for example. Watch episode One. It's the best dialogue ever written" - Russell T Davies. Still, that rat's a bit rubbish isn't it? Broadcast a couple of months before Talons, The New Avengers episode 'Gnaws' also featured a giant rat in the London sewers, yet 'Gnaws' wasn't half as much fun as Talons, even if their giant rat wasn't quite as laughable. You see that quote from RTD is exactly what I'm talking about. In no universe does it have the best dialogue ever written. Yeah it's dialogue is good, but it is also very stylised, and not very natural at the same time. To be honest I don't even think it has the best dialogue of DW, never mind of any tv show. The Masters speech on hatred in Deadly Assassin, Davros dialogue in Genesis, the Daleks final speech in Genesis, the Haemovores confronting Nicholas Parsons in Fenric, Sutekh's speech when torturing the Doctor, Davros consumer resistance line in Revelation, Morbius speech in his tank, Tom's indomitable speech, lots of lines in Inferno have all stuck with me more than pretty much anything in Talons. (Apart from the THEY WERE A SUCCESS which had a hilarious parallel with Jodie fans. I remember that c*nt Ginger Cat deleted my posts on Mondas saying that, calling me a tedious bore for saying it, only a few months later after the Timeless Children to suddenly spout what I'd been saying since 2015, useless fatheaded c*nt.) Anyway back on point LOL, Talons is a solid story and I wasn't having a go at anyone here for liking it just to be clear. I'm honestly just baffled as to why it is regularly voted within the top 3 regularly? It would be like if The Sea Devils or the Daemons or the Greatest Show in the Galaxy was voted the best story of all time? To be honest out of those four including Talons, Greatest Show is actually the best, well apart from the rapping Circus Man. Finally as for giant rats, well for some reason they were all the rage in the 70s. Survivors also did a rats episode. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 21:40:28 GMT
Bloody hell, I have a phobia of rats and all this talk about big, giant ones is really getting me on edge. Can't we talk about how lovely Louise Jameson is instead?  |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 21:44:16 GMT
Bloody hell, I have a phobia of rats and all this talk about big, giant ones is really getting me on edge. Can't we talk about how lovely Louise Jameson is instead?  |
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Post by iank on Oct 12, 2023 21:50:12 GMT
Morbius is really shit.
Talons is sublime but I went for Seeds of Doom this time.
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 21:52:17 GMT
but I went for Seeds of Doom this time. based |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 22:20:02 GMT
Ahhh, a nice picture to get my mind off massive rodents lurking in the sewers. Oh, and does this shot automatically make Underworld a 2/10 rather than a 1/10?  |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2023 22:25:19 GMT
she's actually rather saggy IRL
don't ask me how I know
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